This topic is not intended to start another discussion on which brand is better. Rather i want to know what the users have found to be good things and bad things about both brands regarding the battery powered flash systems that I can use outdoors and in the studio. at least one head wich can overpower the sun meaning take away the shadows that the sun creates.
I would like to hear about service, technical things(for example i read that EL recognizes pre flash of the 580EX), ease of use, durability and not to forget compatibilty with other brands light modifiers and what light modifiers of the brand itself or a must have
I think both brands are great, but haven't got the experience with them to know which one will be the right one for me on the long run.
At the end I want to choose one brand and invest in it. So to sum it up, can everybody with experience with Profoto or Elinchrom please give me their view on the brand they are using.
Just some up the pro's and con's in the categories, I mentioned earlier;
Service
Thecnical
Ease of use
Durabilty
compatibilty
If you think I miss a important category feel free.
I just started using a Profoto AcuteB so can't answer all the quesitons, but I can say without a doubt Ease of Use is off the charts! I've used it both in studio and outdoors and it's a thing of beauty just how versatile this light is. Super lightweight powerful enough for many applications and has the best modifier mount in the world. Simply no brainer studio quality light in a battery pack.
It's super light weight, controls are manual and very easy to dial up and down quickly, the modifier mount is super easy to use, the way the battery pops in and out is well thought out, the ergonomics of the unit is great making it very easy to move around, the way the head attaches is well thought out, my unit has built in pocket wizard which makes is super convenient...if you need more info let me know.
Which Profoto and which Elinchrom products are you asking about?
When you ask about over powering the sun, what do you mean by that? How do you light, what kind of modifiers do you use?
Without knowing how you light I have to assume that you'll want/ need the most powerful battery kit available i the two lines, the Pro 7A or the Elinchrom Ranger.Both are fine lights , both are expensive, both are 1200 w-s units (maximum) power.
With the Elinchrom Ranger you now (or shortly will) have the ability to use the new PocketWizard ControlTL system with the PowerST4 receiver which will let you sync at shutter speeds greater than what your camera is capable of (AKA HyperSync), control energy settings by using your camera's flash exposure biasing control, and tie Canon Speedlights, Elinchrom RX, and (gasp!) even Paul C Buff lights into a multi-brand integrated lighting system. There apparently are no current plans for a Profoto Air compatible receiver for the ControlTL system. Profoto has ruled that out.
Evener, your questions has good reason. But you assumed well.
I mean at the end it depends on how strong the sun is, meaning what time a day I'kllbe shooting. But that aside, the purpose is to find a kit which gives me room to play with. Meaning, I would be able to use a big octa outdoors and still overpower the sun, and if needed to back it up from the subject to give a bit harder shadows etccc.
But for the sake of the argument let assume 1200w is enough.And the question is not based on the power output but more on the characteristics of each brand. Where does Profoto stand out and where does Elinchrom stand out if you look at the battery packs, and why.
I think this way because I'am just starting to get my own style and am not sure yet what way it is going to.
I am not sure but as far as I know all Elinchrom head/mono's can work with the rangers, while with profoto not everything works together. Things like this may save money on the long run.
The example you just gave me about the new powerst4 receiver gives me much reason to choose for elinchrom over profoto. If it's true it would mean I need less power to overpower the sun, as I would be able to use faster shutter speeps to kill ambient light but. Do you have any good links explaining the Powerst4 receiver? This also means I would be able to overpower the sun with quadras. Meaning I could save money again, because I wouldn't need to buy the big lights.
Stevebakhuis wrote:
This topic is not intended to start another discussion on which brand is better. Rather i want to know what the users have found to be good things and bad things about both brands regarding the battery powered flash systems that I can use outdoors and in the studio. at least one head wich can overpower the sun meaning take away the shadows that the sun creates.
For me the main reason to go with Elinchrom was availability. There's a store for Elinchrom lights about 45min away from me, so if I need something on short notice, want to try some cool new product or need to rent additional lights, I can fairly easily get there. All the other brands are only available in the Ruhrgebiet which is about 2h from here and quite confusing to drive around in.
Well, I don't have that much equipment and I have never used Profoto lights, so I can't compare them. I also don't have any battery powered lights, so I'm afraid that besides my comment regarding the availability, I can't help much. Sorry.
I heard people complaining about the elinchrom mounts, that they break etc. Do you think this is because they aren't carefull enough or is the system a bit fragile?
I have all El gear, so heres my input:
(I have the several 600rx monos, a Ranger Speed and a Quadra)...
- The mounts ARE bad... but.. theyre not TOO bad if its El heads to El mods.. but if you mix match, it gets bad. I bought a Photoflex large SB recently because I needed a grid, and its nearly impossible to get the mount to work right. Compared to other mounts, its not THAT bad... but compared to PF... its uber garbage..
- The El modifers are just amazing. I can get my huge Octa up in less than 30 seconds and I adore the results. I feel this way about all thier mods.
- I find the quadra to amazing piece of engineering. It fits (broken down) in my large camera back pack along with one body and 4 lens, so add a softlighter and a lightweight stand, and i have a studio I can fly with. I use the adaptor full time and Ive mounted octas on the Quadra, and its been iffy but its worked..
- The ranger is fantastic as well..fast and the light is great. No one complaines about it... not that ive read much of at least...
So yes, I LOVE my ELinchrom gear...
but would I switch to profoto if I could? God yes.
ELinchrome, to me, is Profotos cheaper cousin.. and if I had the money ....Id switch..
Stevebakhuis wrote:
Ok toby, then a specific question,
I heard people complaining about the elinchrom mounts, that they break etc. Do you think this is because they aren't carefull enough or is the system a bit fragile?
I 2nd James' statement: The mount is fine, but there's better ones around. Mix & match can be a pain if it doesn't match properly. I've got an old Photoflex speedring liing around that would just pop out if it was rotated counterclockwise. I blame Photoflex for this though, not Elinchrom. I've worked with Hensel lights before and really liked not having to align small hooks and tabs (their mount is rotationally symmetric -- the orientation of the modifier doesn't matter), but did not like the release lever. With Elinchrom's mount there's two hands available to grab a soft box, with many other mounts like Hensel you've got to hang onto some lever with one hand, leaving only the other one to hold the light modifier. This can be a pain with large modifiers (I've had serious trouble getting a large strip light one-handed onto a Hensel head).
All in all I'm happy with the mount. It's not perfect, but it's imperfections are not a big deal for me.
Thanks guys, these are important things to know, before buying a certain flash system.
James I am curious about your statement, If I had the money Id switch.
Why would this be? What is so much better of profoto in your opinion? I am starting to get the feeling that the EL vs Profoto is the old story of microsoft against apple.
Apple always says their better, but can never really explein it.
I am trying to really get to the botoom of why profoto would be better. You are not the first saying they would switch if they had the money. but none say why!
I won't attempt to touch on every point, but I now use 100% Profoto after using Elinchrom among other systems. When I first needed a powerful battery unit, I went for the Ranger. The specs looked good, but in practice for me it was not a good fit. Twice in one shoot a large softbox fell off and nearly hit the subject. I thought there must be a simple fix, but could not find one. On top of that, the pushbutton digital control drove me crazy. So I immediately opted for the PF 7b. The mount system is nearly bombproof, and I found the dial control much simpler/faster for me and assistants as well. Then I began converting over all my a/c packs too. The only service issues I have had, have been my own fault. And then the turnaround has been quick and reasonable. Also I know I can rent the gear almost anywhere I travel and I feel right at home with it. I now have several of the 600br kits, which are simply amazing on location. Acute 1200 and 2400 packs, a D4 2400, and a 7b. Cannot say enough good about them all. No regrets at all for me.
The EL mount is something that has kept me from deciding and offcourse the profoto price.
I must say that I just saw that a acute1200R is cheaper than the ranger and less heavy. The only thing I don';t really know if it's battery powered.
you get 2 heads and an extra 100 watts which I think is half a stop extra orso.
I visited the local elinchrom dealer and I think it's just fair I now go to the profot dealer as for me the Profoto website is quite confusing with all the choices.
the 7b is heavier and twice the price.
I want to know which packs I can use as a battery powered unit and as a studio powered unit.
But all in all the times I hear the mount of the Elinchrom is fragile scare me. Why Elinchrom doesn''t fix this I don't know! It is the most frequent issue I have heard for people to go Profoto.
The battery-powered units in the Profoto line have a "B" in the name. The AcuteB 600 is battery powered, the Acute 1200 and 2400 are not. Pro7B/B2/B3 are battery powered; Pro7a, Pro7s, and Pro8 are not.
The studio Acutes can be used with the BatPac to enable battery use, but it's obviously not as compact or convenient as a 7B or a Ranger.
Hey collins thanks a lot for clearing that up for me. Even when I called the calumet here in the netherland they where getting confused explaining wich of the units or actually battery powered.
But this is better everything with a B, which makes sense.
Just to have a little less Profoto bias in here...
The Elinchrom mount is just fine. I don't own elinchrom stock, but i do love their products. That love doesn't cause me blindness to their shortcomings...
The reality is, you place a light on a mount, you spin it, you lock it. Done. I really don't understand why people have such a problem with this. I've setup 74" and 69" outdoors without fail. People are stating their reflectors fell off, give me a break. How does a reflector fall off if it locks? Unless you didn't lock it.
There was a post recently from Carmen Miranda, more eloquent of course, but basically stating the same thing i'm saying here. Rudi and some other folks would agree.
Don't take my word for it....Test it out for yourself.
