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Archive 2010 · PLM V2's announced!

  
 
Robb Mann
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p.11 #1 · PLM V2's announced!


Kacey; yes, I have thought about using a ring flash with my PLM. Haven't tried it yet though.... I'll let you know.

Also, umbrellas are, apparently, measured differently than softboxes. The across-the-face size is always less than the stated size. I'm sure someone on FM knows the reason for this. Since the PLM is neither a traditional softboxe nor umbrella, I guess it makes sense.



Aug 29, 2010 at 03:37 PM
tetrode
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p.11 #2 · PLM V2's announced!


Kacey wrote:
I'm wondering if anyone ever used the V1 umbrella with the ABR.... Seems like a logical choice to center a flash without even needing the "cage". Also wondering if there is a special way some measure umbrella's. Dave stated the 51" one he ordered is 42" across the face.


Quite awhile ago I rigged up an adapter that allows centering an umbrella on my ringflash. Works pretty well with the PLM V2 and the 7mm shaft:





Dave F.



Aug 29, 2010 at 03:41 PM
Paul Buff
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p.11 #3 · PLM V2's announced!


Tetrode. I really think you should call into customer service or tech help, or go on our tech forum at http://www.paulcbuff-techforum.com/

I can only do so much here. I's sure like to see that crooked screw also . . . as I said, I just can't see how it could happen but am not willing to argue with your picture. I'm sure customer service will be happy to send you a replacement and call tag so we can see this anomaly. Also, you have already identified the "center shaft" in you detailed photo . . . since there are three shafts, the center shaft would be, well, the center shaft . . . they one you called Adapter Rod.

As for the set screw falling through, you have tightened it too far. As for putting a knob on the back and a longer 7mm shaft, this can work except you will have two problems: 1. You will have a shaft sticking out the back to poke eyes out, and, 2: you will have to remove the knob if you want to easily put the black outer cover on and off.



Aug 29, 2010 at 03:44 PM
tetrode
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p.11 #4 · PLM V2's announced!


Robb Mann wrote:
...Also, umbrellas are, apparently, measured differently than softboxes. The across-the-face size is always less than the stated size...


This isn't always the case, Robb. I've just re-measured my nominally 45" Calumet, 43" Lastolite, and 30" Photoflex umbrellas across their face, tip-to-tip. They measured 45", 43", and 30" respectively. However, my 60" Photogenic Eclipse umbrella measured 50" tip-to-tip. Apparently, you're at the mercy of the manufacturer when it comes to published umbrella dimensions.

Dave F.



Aug 29, 2010 at 03:51 PM
Paul Buff
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p.11 #5 · PLM V2's announced!


Kacey wrote:
I'm wondering if anyone ever used the V1 umbrella with the ABR.... Seems like a logical choice to center a flash without even needing the "cage". Also wondering if there is a special way some measure umbrella's. Dave stated the 51" one he ordered is 42" across the face.


The PLMV1 or V2 can be directly used with the ABR using the umbrella adaptor that comes with the ABR. All the stuff Tetrode cooked up is not needed with our ringflash ( ABR800).

The performance is not completely optimal though, since the ABR has an 80° beam angle and won't completely fill the PLM. Several customers have done this and report good results though.

As for the standard way to measure umbrellas, I don't care for the standard either . . . but the standard is to measure from rib to rib around the arc (back). This was established long ago by umbrella manufacturers. This is explained in detail on our website and you will find the same dimension specification on most umbrellas from other vendors, usually without the explanation we offer.



Aug 29, 2010 at 03:56 PM
tetrode
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p.11 #6 · PLM V2's announced!


Paul Buff wrote:
Tetrode. I really think you should call into customer service or tech help, or go on our tech forum at http://www.paulcbuff-techforum.com/

I can only do so much here. I's sure like to see that crooked screw also . . . as I said, I just can't see how it could happen but am not willing to argue with your picture. I'm sure customer service will be happy to send you a replacement and call tag so we can see this anomaly. Also, you have already identified the "center shaft" in you detailed photo . . . since there are three
...Show more

Thanks for the response, Paul. The screw is definitely canted to one side. I will indeed take it up with customer service tomorrow.

One nomenclature point: The instructions that came with the PLM refer to what you call the "center shaft" and what I have referred to as the "adapter rod" as the "positioning shaft". For clarity's sake, may I suggest we use the official designation (i.e. positioning shaft) going forward?

Dave F.



Aug 29, 2010 at 03:58 PM
Paul Buff
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p.11 #7 · PLM V2's announced!


jeremy_clay wrote:
Images were almost all PLM main on it's own, or PLM with a strip box for the rim. Full set: http://jclayphoto.com/blog/?p=376

http://www.jclayphoto.com/v1site_images/galleries/gallery198/_I8P1677-Edit_web.jpg

http://www.jclayphoto.com/v1site_images/galleries/gallery198/_I8P1715_web.jpg

http://www.jclayphoto.com/v1site_images/galleries/gallery198/_I8P1820-Edit_web.jpg

http://www.jclayphoto.com/v1site_images/galleries/gallery198/_I8P2009-Edit_web.jpg

http://www.jclayphoto.com/v1site_images/galleries/gallery198/_I8P1858-Edit_web.jpg



Sure like to see some actual pictures along these lines and get this thread on the meat of the subject instead of how it should have could have been made.



Aug 29, 2010 at 04:07 PM
Kacey
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p.11 #8 · PLM V2's announced!


Does anyone even have a complete umbrella to shoot with yet? I think Dave said the back cover to his was back ordered. I would think you would rather have this thread buried instead of drawing more people here with pictures.


Aug 29, 2010 at 05:42 PM
E-Vener
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p.11 #9 · PLM V2's announced!


I prefer Charlie Watts Drum kit set up.


Aug 29, 2010 at 07:19 PM
Bryan Beasleigh
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p.11 #10 · PLM V2's announced!


Kacey wrote:
You could just supply a 10 cent China thumb screw.....


Do we really need someone nipping at peoples heels. Please quit while you still have a shred of self respect left.




Aug 29, 2010 at 08:33 PM
jeremy_clay
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p.11 #11 · PLM V2's announced!


Paul Buff wrote:
Sure like to see some actual pictures along these lines and get this thread on the meat of the subject instead of how it should have could have been made.


Mine should be here soon enough - I make my PCB do great things, how about feeding me some freebies, Mr Buff?



Aug 29, 2010 at 08:48 PM
Mardel
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p.11 #12 · PLM V2's announced!


Anybody using the white 86" PLM with black spill kill? Any examples of the Japanese Lantern lighting config with say a group of people indoors.


Aug 29, 2010 at 08:52 PM
Kacey
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p.11 #13 · PLM V2's announced!


tetrode wrote:
Quite awhile ago I rigged up an adapter that allows centering an umbrella on my ringflash. Works pretty well with the PLM V2 and the 7mm shaft:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4136/4938674087_5b8f238cee_o.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4073/4939259086_e8902c5481_o.jpg

Dave F.


Thanks for the setup images Dave
Maybe at some point it the future I will give it a try.





Aug 29, 2010 at 09:47 PM
Kacey
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p.11 #14 · PLM V2's announced!


Paul Buff wrote:
The performance is not completely optimal though, since the ABR has an 80° beam angle and won't completely fill the PLM. Several customers have done this and report good results though.



I wouldn't leave the reflector on it.... Bare bulb without the reflector and diffuser I would think it would be ideal. I could be wrong, but the larger flash tubes might even the be a plus.



Aug 29, 2010 at 09:48 PM
Paul Buff
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p.11 #15 · PLM V2's announced!


tetrode wrote:
Thanks for the response, Paul. The screw is definitely canted to one side. I will indeed take it up with customer service tomorrow.

One nomenclature point: The instructions that came with the PLM refer to what you call the "center shaft" and what I have referred to as the "adapter rod" as the "positioning shaft". For clarity's sake, may I suggest we use the official designation (i.e. positioning shaft) going forward?

Dave F.


My ad/literature girl, Nat, is headlong into getting the manual up to speed and getting pictures up on the website. She has been handicapped (as have I) by not having final samples from the vendor until about a week ago. I believe Nat has a naming convention in place or in the works for the three shafts.

Please keep in mind that a lot of the redesign to PLMV1 came about from comments on this forum that the umbrella shaft stuck out the back (as it does with all umbrellas) and that Elinchrom insists on using a tiny 7mm shaft. In the process I decided on the speedring system (for which Patents are in the works), which vastly improves the product. Even bigger improvements were made in reshaping the parabola for better focusing, higher output, better face evenness with the front diffuser, better focusability, tighter cutoff of stray light.

Honestly, I'm a bit surprised nobody has commented on the superiority of 16 ribs over standard octagon umbrellas, both in more pleasing catchlight as well as considerably higher light output and pattern control on the Silver versions.

The biggest challenge of all come from trying to communicate all this to Chinese companies and demanding higher quality control. To those who haven't experienced this process there is no way you can understand the difficulties and dedication of time needed.

I just approved the Black/Silver Front Spill Kill fabrics so this is the last element to go into production.

I would also point out that I am enduring about a 25% cost increase with V2 and am taking this out of my wallet instead of yours.

Thank you Paul for doing this for us, the users, instead of maximizing your potential profits. And thank you for realizing V1 could be improved, in spite of its tremendous success, and gee we're sorry Chinese and British crooks have outright stolen you work and even your molds, and that you are suffering from unscrupulous thieves who are basically immune from an effective suit. Gee, Paul, we know that doing what you do is really hard . . . gosh it took 9 months and several hundred thouand dollars to get it to your satisfaction. We know you are bucking the path of least resistance . . . to just copy what others do. We know creating truly innovative products and making them affordable to the masses always results in more loose ends than just copy catting or outright stealing. But why didn't you put a thumbscrew on it . . . the hardware store is so inconvenient.



Aug 29, 2010 at 10:10 PM
Paul Buff
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p.11 #16 · PLM V2's announced!


Kacey wrote:
I wouldn't leave the reflector on it.... Bare bulb without the reflector and diffuser I would think it would be ideal. I could be wrong, but the larger flash tubes might even the be a plus.


Leaving the reflector off would improve it .But the reflector behind the flashtube will still narrow the beam. I have received good reports from ABR/PLM users generally.



Aug 29, 2010 at 10:14 PM
Kacey
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p.11 #17 · PLM V2's announced!


Good to know..... My ABR's flash tube is recessed only half way into built in sub-reflector, so it will get's full spread with the reflector removed. I took one of the tubes out and reseated just to make sure it was all the way in. In years of having the ring flash I've never used it with a umbrella. This could be a good reason to use it a little more.


Aug 29, 2010 at 10:33 PM
Csae
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p.11 #18 · PLM V2's announced!


Paul Buff wrote:
The biggest challenge of all come from trying to communicate all this to Chinese companies and demanding higher quality control. To those who haven't experienced this process there is no way you can understand the difficulties and dedication of time needed.

Thank you Paul for doing this for us, the users, instead of maximizing your potential profits. And thank you for realizing V1 could be improved, in spite of its tremendous success, and gee we're sorry Chinese and British crooks have outright stolen you work and even your molds, and that you are suffering from unscrupulous thieves who are basically
...Show more

You have issues.

If you do not like the line of work you are in, Might think about quitting.

I will not "thank" a vendor, i will either buy his wares or not, your wares sell for specific reasons, if you do not like those reasons, change your wares and market them differently.

I somehow got the feeling you're doing us this huge "favor" by making these, don't misunderstand. You are Charging us, and if you charged much higher you would probably lose sales, maximizing your profit and marketing/products to a price point is your job if you are unable or -unhappy- to, then don't and someone else will probably step up and be thankful for the opportunity.

==============================================

That being said, I have specific PLM questions here!

I have gotten a much better idea of the assembly involved, I am happy with the idea of the cage, as i believe it will center the plm better which is important, its a bit disappointing to see that set-up will take longer, but it should still be faster then a standard softbox.

Would it be possible to simply remove that screw and use my very own thumbscrews? Working in computers has left me with quite a few lying around

In the cage, i see a small metal (shiny) disc, it looks somewhat curved, and highly reflective. This would definitely catch some of the light from the flash head, is this affecting the output at all from a Eli light? Or the shape of it ?

The black spill fabric, is it pure black or is it also silver on the inside to reflect some of that spill back through the plm ? Especially some of that shiny disc light.

Would it be possible to lock in the center shaft of the cage like the 7mm shaft ? So that when assembling the PLM, one would only need to thumbscrew the cage to rod?


Also, with the black spill fabric in place, does this change the assembly at all, i am assuming it does since once can't really reach in to center the shafts properly and whatnot, so how is the black spill fabric installed ? I was wondering if i should get it or not, but that shiny disc would definitely cause me flares at some point with the type of light positioning i use...

I am wondering if i should wait on v3, as the assembly definitely looks like it could use some improvements in design.


========================================================

And yes Paul, there are always improvements to be made, listening to user feedback is a good idea, now whether or not those improvements can be made while keeping the product in its price point is your job, you will notice alot of companies have certain "FlagShips" that aren't always their best-selling but can be showcases of "Yes, we know you want those types of improvements, and hey we're very capable of them For a price."

so if you feel like by suggesting some improvements we're attacking your engineer knowledge, we're not, we're just suggesting stuff that we find helpful. If you feel constantly attacked, you may just want to do some Flagships yourself or prototypes of stuff that couldn't really be marketed to a ordinary price point but showoff your prowess.

The PLM is beyond something i could make, which is why i want to pay you for your's, take pride in your sales and don't come off as so aggressive

Oh, and yes i am actually quite happy you went with a 16 rib design, its much more pleasing and impressive then the standard umbrella. I hate it when i pull out an umbrella on the set and people are like, wait you're gonna use an umbrella? Isnt that like for rain.... I think the PLM looks much more engineered, especially with that cage.



Aug 30, 2010 at 12:50 AM
Paul Buff
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p.11 #19 · PLM V2's announced!


If you could make the PLM . . . why didn't you? No need to thank me for my contributions to the photo world . . . I did it myself to save yawl the trouble and leave more room for complaints here. If you have a thumbscrew and feel the need for it, how hard is that? The little silver disc will have zero effect on the light in the real world. The black front cover is silver inside, as is the black outer cover. If you hate the PLM now, you'll probably hate it more when yo use the black/silver front spill kill.

I love the work I do . . . it's just some of the forum people that do little but bitch that I have a problem with. Oh . . I see you're from Canada.



Aug 30, 2010 at 01:58 AM
Csae
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p.11 #20 · PLM V2's announced!


Please quote me exactly where in my post i said i hated the PLM.

Or maybe you read my post wrong ? I was actually praising the PLM at a few spots.

But hey knock where I'm living, that totally makes sense.

I think i get why you act so aggressively on the forums, you are not reading the posts properly, you mis-read a bunch of my post.



Aug 30, 2010 at 02:00 AM
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