I should have clarified in my original statement, I have used manual lenses and for the most part they work fine, for whatever reason this Samyang requires more ec than the 5d mII can add. Yes in general Av mode works for manual lenses, and I was talking specifically about my Samyang.
What EC? Are you saying the Samyang's aperture is grossly wrong that you need massive EC. I find with my Zeiss, if I point it a middle toned object and shoot at what the meter says, it's pretty much dead on. If I point it at a white wall I need ~ +1.66 EV, to get the right exposure etc.
apsphoto wrote:
I should have clarified in my original statement, I have used manual lenses and for the most part they work fine, for whatever reason this Samyang requires more ec than the 5d mII can add. Yes in general Av mode works for manual lenses, and I was talking specifically about my Samyang.
Alan
The only thing I can think of is maybe that the AoV is so wide that it is capturing a huge amount of dynamic range which is tricking the meter into under- or -over-exposing.
Have you tried various metering modes and in various types of lighting/scenes?
Also, if you are using this for landscape shooting on a tripod, are you ensuring that the eyepiece is covered during exposure? (I still commit this blunder sometimes).
At least we are all on the same page now.
Local member helimat (a regular in the Alt forum) has this 14mm Samyang and he hasn't mentioned any metering issues...
I did not try it extensively, I shot some shots when I first got it, had the issues, tried another body got the same issue and just went to manual mode and that seemed to work. I have not gone back and done extensive testing with it, I will go back and do that, I have not been able to do any photography for the last month or so because of surgery and recovery, I am slowing getting back into being able to do some more activity so that will be a good thing to test.
You are right I should have done some more extensive testing and I will now that I have the time, but I found what worked for me and made my assumptions about the lens.
Overall it is not a bad lens for the price but it does have it's issues. Like the distortion and some vignetteing wide open, but that is not that unusual.
I received my Rokinon / Samyang today, wanting to use it as wide on my 1D MK III. I tried using it in the Av mode, and it greatly overexposed the image by several stops. Nothing I could do seemed to get a decent exposure. I tried several aperture settings and ISO settings.
Then I set it in manual, but without a light meter, it was trial and error to get a good exposure.
Finally, I tried it with live view with full manual, but knew something was wrong when I had to crank up the iso just to see a image on the lcd. After taking the exposure, it was totally blown out.
Then I went out to my studio and mounted it to my 5D MK II which is tethered to a pc using liveview. The images were captured correctly when exposed per the histogram, and looked correct on the screen.
Then, I tried the 5D MK II in AV mode, and the exposures were about 1 stop or less over. Same with using live view on the rear lcd.
So, the first thing I learned is that different camera models act differently with this lens.
Then, I examed the images, and every one was badly blurred near and at the left edge, while the right edge was reasonable. This was not good.
Now, knowing how to get a decent exposure, I took this lens along with my 15mm fisheye and took images from the exact same spot with both lenses on mf. Images were at f5.6, f8, and f11. Viginetting was extreme at f: 2.8 so it was not usable.
Once again, the left side was blurred on all the Rokinon / Samyang images. However, the Canon 15mm images were sharper in the center, and the extreme edges were quite good as well. The overall resulting image was much better than the Rokinon / Samyang. The 15mm FOV was noticibly larger than the 14mm Rokinon / Samyang as well.
Overall, I was very disappointed. The canon 15mm fisheye that I bought used for $300 was clearly a better lens, and exposures were set accurately. It also worked with my 1D MK III.
The Rokinon / Samyang is going back obviously, I'm not going to trade it, even if the left side was fixed, the problem on the 1D MK III rules out my use of it.
I also read the user manual in the trouble shooting table. There, I saw what they do not tell you, it is a APS-C lens, not for full frame.
Problem; Pictures too dark or too bright.
Answer: " As this lens is optomized for APS-C size images, so the periphery gets dark when using a digital camera for 1:1 size images."
This is baffling to me. As I mentioned earlier, local member helimat has reported no issues using his on his 5D MkII. I'll have to ask him to confirm this.
cogitech wrote:
This is baffling to me. As I mentioned earlier, local member helimat has reported no issues using his on his 5D MkII. I'll have to ask him to confirm this.
Hey 'Cog'...judging by the severe difference in apparent field of view, do you think that the rear lens element (or group) might be reversed?
Thanks Paul. I must say that I agree with you, and I am in fact truly baffled by the metering issues that some users are having. I have used the Samyang 14/2.8 on both the 5D2 & 1D3, and aside from the usual minor EC adjustment it has been straight forward for me and no different than any other lens, with or without communication with the camera. The only thing I can think is, and when I say this I am not trying to be a dick, but perhaps they are using spot metering which is not advisable on an UWA IMO, or perhaps they are just new to stop-down metering. If it is neither of those reasons than I will be very puzzled indeed.
As for IQ, I was pleasantly surprised, although in retrospect I should not be after extensive use of the Samyang 85/1.4. Sharp from wide open, great colour, good flare control, and even decent bokeh. There is some vignetting wide open, but it is not extreme at all. There are certainly no signs of decentering on my copy. And I love the colour of the sky when shot with this unit.
Here are a few samples I have handy, all wide open on the 5D2:
The only flaw I have seen so far is the mustache distortion. It is fairly strong, but we have to remember that it is an UWA, so some distortion is to be expected, and a fairly affordable UWA at that. If I were in the business of taking critical architecture shots, I imagine I would be looking at a wide angle tilt-shift lens like the TS-E 17/4L instead. Here is the obligatory brick shot, but before jumping to conclusions too quickly please remember this is from 3 feet away.
What other options are there out there at this focal length? The Sigma might not cost much more but may only work wide open on newer bodies. The original Canon L was a bit of a dog and still goes for 2.5 to 3 times as much. The newer version is very nice but costs 5 times as much... So it is what it is; a decent performer at a very competitive price. I happened to come across this lens for sale second hand at POTN, and being that it was new to the market, and the price was right, I thought it would be fun to give it a try and don't regret it at all. Now I should say for the record, that despite the fact that this lens performs very well, I simply am not a huge UWA user, and combined with that work is slow right now so I might have to let it go, so don't think I am full of shit if you see it up on the B&S. If I had surplus cash right now, this unit would be sticking around for sure as it is a joy to use.
I'll chip in again after an absence of some while from this thread.
My Samyang 14mm meters fine in Av, and M for that matter, on my 1 series bodies.
Is it a case that the metering is fooled by large expanses of sky and/or dark foregrounds depending on which metering mode is selected? And possibly by how different bodies (5DMkII/1 series/50D etc.) interpret these modes.
I have not done any more testing other than some shots for fun. I did post the initial results which show the moustach distortion quite well, and they are here: http://www.pbase.com/snowlep/samyang
Is there is reason you want to replace the 16-35mm? I would think that is better quality lens, the distortion is easier to fix and Adobe already has profiles for it. As for the Samyang I think you will probably have to do your own Adobe profile. There is also some vignetting wide open but that is common with ultra wide angles and full frame cameras. The Sigma 12-24mm is a much better lens and has very little distortion, not as fast but if you do not need the speed and want better correction than that might be a solution.
I bought the Samyang because I wanted a manual lens for doing really wide astronomical shots for a project, the distortion will not be a problem for me and have the nice manual lens will be what I want. As a general purpose lens there are much better lenses out there, like the Sigma 12-24 and on a crop camera the Tokina 11-16mm. I wish the Canon lenses like the 17-40, the 16-35mm and the 24-105 had less distortion but that is something that can be dealt with and for the most part you do not notice.
I will probably still run some more tests soon, I have not had time since I had emergency surgery just over a month ago and have been recovering, getting to the point where I want to go back and look at it closely. I will probably try and make an Adobe profile for fun.
Thank you very for your long reply, it helped me re-think the 14mm purchase. I think I will stick with the 16-35 II, it is flexible and suits my needs very well. I still have the 24 1.4 for creativity. The 14mm would not give me much after wider after distortion is corrected anyway. My needs are covered enough after all.
I've not had a problem with metering, but I usually shoot manual and according to the histogram versus auto modes. As I said earlier, mine is as sharp as my 16-35, but does have the MD distortion, but for applications I use it for, it's not a big issue.
My cameras are not using spot metering, however, I have only used my 5D MK II for stop down metering in the past. I decided to get to the bottom of the 1D MK III issue, so I put a Nikon 50mm manual lens on my 1D MK III and got the same AV overexposure. I spent a hour going thru every setting with no improvement. Then, I thought that my split prism focusing screen might be the problem, but switching it made no difference.
I reset all the custom functions to no avail, so finally, I did a camera reset, and it works OK now. I may never know why it was acting up.
I then started restoring my preferences, to see what caused the issue. When, I tried the C FN IV7 AV setting without lens and discovered that matchinng the aperture set on the lens caused a large overexposure, turning the function off restored proper operation.(I did not have this set originally). Since I had tried this several times, it must have been something hungup that a reset fixed. It ended up taking 2+ hours.
The lens is on its way back. I think I'll stick to Canon, Nikon, or other major brand lenses (I have most all of the brands). I'd go for the Nikon 14-24mm zoom, but I will keep using my 15mm fisheye and maybe Canon will eventually release something similar. I also have the 17-40 zoom which is plenty wide on my 5
D MK II, but not on the 1d MK III.
"What could be written here? To tell you the truth I would recommend even the previous version of the Samyang 2.8/14 without scruple. The improved model, although a bit more expensive, has really much more to offer. It’s enough to say that it definitely surpasses in image sharpness the expensive, professional Nikkor 14-24 mm f/2.8 set at 14 mm and also it corrects most of optical aberrations better than that lens. "
RE: metering issues.
I have started using a few alt lenses, and heres the problem with AV.
you can NOT match the F# used, with the F# on the camera.
The camera is assuming (and rightly so) that the light falling on the sensor during mirror down metering is, at full aperture.
SO if you have an F1.0 lens, and open it up to f1.0 and set the camera to F1.0. it will adjust the shutter speed correctly.
HOWEVER, if you set the lens at F4.0, and set the camera, at F4.0, the camera is going to see the amount of light @ f4.0 and meter for that, THEN subtract, 4 stops.
this will be a devastating over exposure.
If you want do that that either a: leave it at F1.0 and set the lens at f4 and ignore the "falacy" or b: set the lens at f1, meter @ f1.0, then using manual or AE lock, hold it at that setting, then change it to F4, and stop down the lens to F4.
If I had surplus cash right now, this unit would be sticking around for sure as it is a joy to use.