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Archive 2010 · Alternative Lens Battle!

Jman13
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p.1 #1 · Alternative Lens Battle!

Ok, so, in the discussion about slow primes, I remarked on a few posts, which then kind of started a sidetrack. I was quite curious about how different the renderings of some good alt glass and my best Canon lenses would really play out. So, I set up this little battle between 6 lenses. The lenses are all shot at f/4, and are all somwhat similar in focal length. The last two images, I had to do a little extra processing for white balance and such, which is why they look a little different (and why they show more noise), but it was necessary to get a closer comparison. (I will explain in detail after a few responses have taken place).

I will also say up front that I LOVE all 6 of these lenses, for different reasons, but all are excellent lenses and all but one of these gets very regular use on my camera.

Exposure is identical, all shot in manual mode, all focused on the Ferrari symbol on the car. Except for the WB change on the last two, the images were processed directly out of lightroom at defaultsThe green car is about halfway back to the blurred decanter, and the highlights in the back are about 25 feet behind.

I'm wondering if the Alt crowd can rank the lenses in the order of their preference in the following categories:

Best overall rendition
Best microcontrast
Best color
Best bokeh
Best resolution

Quite curious to see the results. What follows are reduced frames of the overall scene, followed by 100% crops of the focus point and of the top of the decanter to see bokeh rendition.

Lens #1:
http://www.jordansteele.com/forumlinks/altbattle1.jpg

Lens #2:
http://www.jordansteele.com/forumlinks/altbattle2.jpg

Lens #3:
http://www.jordansteele.com/forumlinks/altbattle3.jpg

Lens #4:
http://www.jordansteele.com/forumlinks/altbattle4.jpg

Lens #5:
http://www.jordansteele.com/forumlinks/altbattle5.jpg

Lens #6:
http://www.jordansteele.com/forumlinks/altbattle6.jpg

100% Crops:
http://www.jordansteele.com/forumlinks/altbattle_crops.jpg

And 100% crops of the tires (added a little later):
http://www.jordansteele.com/forumlinks/altbattle_tires.jpg

Edited on Feb 28, 2010 at 08:16 AM · View previous versions

Feb 27, 2010 at 09:08 PM

makron
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p.1 #2 · Alternative Lens Battle!

Best overall rendition: 2
2,4,1,3,5,6

Best microcontrast: 2
2,1,4,5,6,3

Best color
Can't judge as too many variables

Best bokeh: 4
4,3,2,1,5,6

Best resolution:2
same as microcontrast

Feb 27, 2010 at 09:35 PM

zombii
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p.1 #3 · Alternative Lens Battle!

I've considered doing something like this and I hope it will show how subjective picking a "best" can be. I also hope that the selection of lenses includes some AF Canon or Nikon lenses as well as some of the alt faves. Having said all that, I found the differences to be pretty small. Bokeh was the easiest: 4. Overall rendition was close but 5 or 6. Color: 6. Did you set the WB to the same color temp for all of them or did you attempt to eyeball matching reds on the Ferrari? After another look, I think best overall is 2. It's the best resolution as well.

Of course, while I fully support this experiment, choice of subject would almost certainly make a difference. If you'd been shooting a model, results might be very different.

Feb 27, 2010 at 10:17 PM

Tri Tran
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p.1 #4 · Alternative Lens Battle!

I like #2 best.

Feb 27, 2010 at 10:45 PM

Steve Spencer
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p.1 #5 · Alternative Lens Battle!

Here are my votes.

Best overall rendition: 5
rankings: 5, 4, 3, 2, 6, 1

Best microcontrast: 1
rankings: 1, 4, 2, 3, 5, 6

Best color: 5
rankings: 5, 3, 6, 4, 2, 1

Best bokeh: 5
rankings: 5, 3, 1, 4, 6, 2

Best resolution: 2
rankings: 2, 1, 4, 5, 6, 3

Feb 27, 2010 at 10:55 PM

philber
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p.1 #6 · Alternative Lens Battle!

Best overall rendition: 2 and 5 draw, even though they are quite different.
Best microcontrast:5
Best resolution: 2
Best colour: no idea
Best bokeh:2 and 5, though very different, 2 for shape of bokeh, 5 for BG blur

Some things are funny in this test. 5 and 6 look like they have a startling lack of detail in the prancing horse crop. The overall rendition of 5 is very pleasing, which probably reflects that the lens is substantially different from others (different comp is plainly visible)

Overall, a very interesting test. Which is this great-looking Ferrari?

Feb 28, 2010 at 01:30 AM

sebboh
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p.1 #7 · Alternative Lens Battle!

Best overall rendition: 2
Best microcontrast: 6 when downsized for the web (possibly due to color difference) at 100% i don't think that "microcontrast can really be separated from resolution so 2 (the definition does seem a bit fuzzy).
Best color: tie between 2 and 4 of the first 4. i like 6 as well but it is very different probably due to the white balance differences
Best bokeh: 4
Worst bokeh: 5 (unless you are looking for business, which sometimes i am)
Best resolution: 2

Feb 28, 2010 at 01:49 AM

EricH
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p.1 #8 · Alternative Lens Battle!

I liked #4 best overall - is this a zuiko?

Feb 28, 2010 at 02:05 AM

Z250SA
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p.1 #9 · Alternative Lens Battle!

Thanks Jordan, this is magnificent! Finally a thread that puts the image before the lens. It�s soo easy to woww a Zeiss if you know it is a Zeiss. Suddenly I feel strangled by my own incompetence

. For the lenses I�d like a #5 with the resolution of #2, a Z21 that is.

Feb 28, 2010 at 03:31 AM

Bifurcator
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p.1 #10 · Alternative Lens Battle!

Nice test.

I agree that most of the "wows" I see posted (95%) are because the user already knows it's supposed to be a good lens. Usually the lack of 100% crops make it 100% impossible to tell if it's actually a good lens or if it's even a point and shoot. Even with your set here it would 100% impossible to tell what lens was used it they weren't compared side by side as you have done. And I add that it's nearly impossible at that if all you had posted were the scaled versions. I made this point in another thread and zombii had a nervous breakdown it shook his reality so.

So, from the 100% crops (the only images where a difference can actually be measured) I think:

#3 is either OOF or is a rather poor lens.
#5 and #6 are just a slight step up from #3
#5 and #6 also have terrible CA that makes them have rather ugly DOF bokeh.
#1 and #2 are the sharpest
#4 has the best bokeh.
#2 has the second best bokeh.
#2 wins for resolution - followed closely by #1 and then #4
For microcontrast none of the shots are good examples so I can't guess - but maybe #2. 100% crops of one of the tires would help to decide this tho.

I think color, rendition are sensor properties and are mostly affected by lighting but lenses have little to do with them.

If I had to own only one of these lenses it would be #2 followed by #4 and then #1. #5 and #6 I would sell as soon as possible.

Feb 28, 2010 at 05:38 AM

Spyro P.
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p.1 #11 · Alternative Lens Battle!

They are all good enough.

Feb 28, 2010 at 05:50 AM

brainiac
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p.1 #12 · Alternative Lens Battle!

Best 3D: #1

Feb 28, 2010 at 06:26 AM

lacksative
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p.1 #13 · Alternative Lens Battle!

I'm also digging #4 even though it doesn't appear as crisp on the crop as #1. Can't wait for the results. I'd gladly take any of those lenses.

Feb 28, 2010 at 07:35 AM

U.C.
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p.1 #14 · Alternative Lens Battle!

Aren't 1 and 5 stopped down, because of the diaphragm-shape of the highlight bokeh?

Feb 28, 2010 at 07:46 AM

Steve Spencer
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p.1 #15 · Alternative Lens Battle!

philber wrote:
Best overall rendition: 2 and 5 draw, even though they are quite different.
Best microcontrast:5
Best resolution: 2
Best colour: no idea
Best bokeh:2 and 5, though very different, 2 for shape of bokeh, 5 for BG blur

Some things are funny in this test. 5 and 6 look like they have a startling lack of detail in the prancing horse crop. The overall rendition of 5 is very pleasing, which probably reflects that the lens is substantially different from others (different comp is plainly visible)

Overall, a very interesting test. Which is this great-looking Ferrari?

I agree that #5 is plainly a different comp., and is a wider lens. I am guessing that 5 & 6 was shot with Jordan's EP-1 and number 5 is his lumix 20mm lens. Number 6 is probably the voigtlander 40mm.

Feb 28, 2010 at 07:47 AM

Jman13
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p.1 #16 · Alternative Lens Battle!

Interesting results so far.

FWIW, if I were rating these lenses (as objectively as I can) based on these crops alone, I'd rate them this way:

Best overall rendition: #4
4, 2, 1, 3, 5, 6

Best Microcontrast: #1
1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 3

Best Resolution: #2
2, 1, 4, 3, 6, 5

Best bokeh: #4
4, 3, 2, 1, 5, 6

Best color: couldn't really choose from here.

Interestingly enough, knowing these lenses as well as I do, I'd reverse some of the order above a bit, but not too much, and mainly in the categories where they are SO close that we're really splitting hairs (such as resolution).

A few general comments:

#5 and #6 are different for a reason. I'll get into that later. (some of you can probably figure it out).

It is possible #3 might be a smidge OOF (though this is the best of 3 shots with slightly different focus points, and I think it IS in focus), but I don't think it is. It does tend to soften a smidge near MFD, which is where these were shot...that said, I think the real difference is that the other lenses are just SO sharp at this aperture that #3 looks soft by comparison. If you look closely, you can see higher levels of detail than #5 or #6 (look in the tail of the horse). In real life shots, #3 is plenty sharp...very sharp, actually.

If anything, I think #4 is at less than its optimal sharpness point (but certainly within accepted tolerances)....and that bears out in the tire crops.

Yes, a different subject and different focus distance may show a few differences, but overall, I thought this test was quite fair, and gave a good idea of how a lens draws...some tough bokeh situations, a good model to show 3D and color, and as close to the same framing for each lens as I could get.

I'll reveal which lenses are which in a little while. (As to stopped down, all but two lenses are stopped down here, at least a little).

By the way tire crops are a great idea...and they have now been posted here, and above in the OP.

http://www.jordansteele.com/forumlinks/altbattle_tires.jpg

Feb 28, 2010 at 07:58 AM

Jonas B
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p.1 #17 · Alternative Lens Battle!

Best overall rendition: lens 4
Best microcontrast: lol, lens 2 I think
Best color: I guess they all would be as good when profiled and processed accordingly
Best bokeh: draw between 2 and 4, no wait... lens 4
Best resolution: lens 2

Color... I have a problem with that. (I do well in color eye sight tests so that's not it.) I have just never run into a situation when I thought I would get better colors from a certain lens. Well, that is unless it is a real crappy low contrast and flary lens with a lot of aberrations of all sorts.

Thank you for the challenge!

/Jonas

Feb 28, 2010 at 09:39 AM

pdmphoto
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p.1 #18 · Alternative Lens Battle!

I like #2 and #4 the best, but... Using a close focus distance for your test, won't mirror results at longer distances. In my lens testing I have found that one shot can not be conclusive. Small differences in focusing and focus distance can make a big difference in results. Lighting also plays an important role, and it's hardly challenging in this test.

Feb 28, 2010 at 10:29 AM

Jman13
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p.1 #19 · Alternative Lens Battle!

Of course one shot can't do everything, but I can tell you that, with the exception of #3, which does perform a little better at longer focus distances, this test is pretty close to how all these lenses react in real life in a variety of situations...it's quite representative. I do not have the time to go out with all these lenses on a good distance target in challenging light, at this time...especially in the winter.

It is meant simply to give a good idea of some of the major qualities we look for in lenses, and I think it does a good job at that. I set it up to give a good test for many things. This is a challenge for bokeh, as the car and the decanter provide a lot of specular highlights, and there's backlight which could flare in certain circumstances. The main light is a single point source to the right. It's not a super close focus test, but the focus point is at ~1.2m, which is at the MFD of one of the lenses, but most of the other lenses are much further from their MFD.

Feb 28, 2010 at 10:39 AM

Bifurcator
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p.1 #20 · Alternative Lens Battle!

And you did a very good job of it too!

Thanks for adding the tires!

With the tires added I now favor #4 as the one I would like to own followed closely by #2 and then #1.

#4 has the best micro contrast (under this lighting). Hands down!

I guess #4 is an Apochromat or close to it - there's a little green CA but some APO's have a little bit like this anyway - usually never purple tho.

I guess #2 and #1 are Achromatic lenses with aspherical elements.

I'm not sure #3 is even multicoated - so maybe really old?

#5 and #6 are still on my "to sell ASAP" list and of course if indeed #3 is not OOF then that too (maybe). For #3 it would depend on how it performed in other scenes with different lighting.

So the best lens (or renditions if we can use that term) in my opinion is: 4, then 2, then 1. And then with a big separation between quality levels: 6, 5 and then 3. In that order:

4, 2, 1 ... ... 6, 5, 3.

Feb 28, 2010 at 12:12 PM

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