they aren't looking for you to submit your entire portfolio...they're looking for you to submit samples of your work...submitting two head and shoulders shots that are so similar doesn't show the variety in your work. might has well have just done a B&W conversion and submitted the same image both in color and B&W. then another shot of the same girl in makeup, ok...whatever.
When I say the last shot could have been taken with an iPhone I mean it's cutting room floor material, horrible expression, and absolutely nothing remarkable about it in any way. It looks like something you'd find on the facebook page of a 30 year old techno nerd, not a photography portfolio.
Yes, model mayhem adheres to a conformist set of norms, welcome to modeling and our pursuit of photographing it. But I'm sure it won't be a big loss to you, what with you having so little time for the human race and all.
As the operators of their site they have absolute say in who they approve and don't approve. For whatever reason you didn't meet what they were looking for. Don't blame the messenger. If it really isn't that big of a deal then accept it and move on. If it is, then try to submit again. Those really are your choices, posting that you don't care, but then continuing to carry on the argument that you should clearly have been accepted over the other people on the site is a pretty good indicator that you do in fact care, if you honestly didn't you would simply have gotten the rejection notice and carried on.
3 out of the 4 shots are different. How is that *not* variety? Please explain.
No, I don't like injustice. And I'll sure as hell bitch about it as much as I like, whether you, or the mods don't like it, tough shit - I believe in freedom of speech. The only way they'll shut me up is to ban me. And to be honest, I couldn't really care less, I don't use FM or other Online forums that much, and for good reason. This thread has pretty much proved it all to me, not that I really needed proving.
It's obvious you're gung ho that you got accepted and you're enjoying baiting me, and you know what - I'm taking the bait cos I'm sick of people like you. You think you're so good that you can shove your views down other peoples throats. Well, I'm well and truly sick of it.
MM can approve/disapprove who they want. And I can bitch about them, all I like too. :-)
Friend, I can't tell you why they rejected you. I'm not about to open your .docx document either, are you not aware that Microsoft documents are computer virus risks? Why not copy and paste the text here instead.
Even though you say the pictures were not candid, all I can tell you is that as an outside observer, they appear to be candid. Perhaps that's why you were rejected, perhaps not. It's been quite a while since I started on MM, so I don't remember their entry requirements. Perhaps you could post them here as well. And why be offended and not try again, maybe you'll get a different reviewer this time who will see different.
Melcor - all of your pics have dark eye sockets. Go back and look at each one, with your attention on the eyes.
The light needs to reach the eyes, which are what we look at in a portrait. Often, just raising the chin of the model will make a big difference. When you use artificial lighting, you can adjust the lighting accordingly.
I have no idea why you were not accepted, but I offer this observation to help, not criticize.
i hope you take my comments as constructive criticism and not as something insulting. my intent is only to help.
whether they are actually candid or not is beside the point. the end result are photos that appear to be candid. #4 being the worst in this regard. had you not told us, i would have guessed it was a one-shot attempt at a self portrait. if it were my photo, i would probably crop all the way to his head as everything else lends itself to a candid shot; the random bits of leg and shorts and the randomly placed hands, his smile also seems to be forced or maybe he is on his way to smiling and you caught him before he finished, not sure. shots 1 and 2 look pretty good but as was mentioned, they are pretty much the same shot only flipped and b&w processed. and again, as has been mentioned already, they're only looking for 4 photos, diversity is key. i would try again using 4 photos that are very different from each other. even #3 in your original set is very similar to #1 and #2 in composition.
again, i hope that helps, it's just meant as friendly advice. good luck!
melkor wrote:
No, I don't like injustice. And I'll sure as hell bitch about it as much as I like, whether you, or the mods don't like it, tough shit - I believe in freedom of speech. The only way they'll shut me up is to ban me. And to be honest, I couldn't really care less, I don't use FM or other Online forums that much, and for good reason. This thread has pretty much proved it all to me, not that I really needed proving.
Go4Long wrote:
When I say the last shot could have been taken with an iPhone I mean it's cutting room floor material, horrible expression, and absolutely nothing remarkable about it in any way. It looks like something you'd find on the facebook page of a 30 year old techno nerd, not a photography portfolio.
Melkor, this is why you were rejected ^^. The 4 images that you posted are not good enough to meet the criteria of the site's operators - simple as that. If you're genuinely interested in shooting people, I suggest you spend more time practicing and less time contaminating an otherwise useful thread. Improve your skills, or wallow in your rejection - your choice. I can't see you taking this advice very well, but it is the truth nonetheless; and, what you need to accept in order to move on.
How the thread changed due to one person getting rejected at MM.
I don't even think when I started you had to submit photos to be approved, you were just "approved' and signed up.
melkor, I'm not going to comment at all about the quality or lack of quality on your work that you submitted to MM. All I can say is that I think you are truly best suited for your Macro work. You don't seem like a "people person" at all, and to photograph models, you need to be a "people person".
Granted, you might be the nicest guy in the world if I ever met you and we could become friends, but from your replies in this thread, I just don't get warm and fuzzy feelings about you and your persona. That is okay, not everyone is a people person. Me on the other hand, I've never met a stranger in my life.
I wish you nothing but good luck to you and your photography career.
melkor wrote:
3 out of the 4 shots are different. How is that *not* variety? Please explain.
No, I don't like injustice. And I'll sure as hell bitch about it as much as I like, whether you, or the mods don't like it, tough shit - I believe in freedom of speech. The only way they'll shut me up is to ban me. And to be honest, I couldn't really care less, I don't use FM or other Online forums that much, and for good reason. This thread has pretty much proved it all to me, not that I really needed proving.
It's obvious you're gung ho that you got accepted and you're enjoying baiting me, and you know what - I'm taking the bait cos I'm sick of people like you. You think you're so good that you can shove your views down other peoples throats. Well, I'm well and truly sick of it.
MM can approve/disapprove who they want. And I can bitch about them, all I like too. :-)
Melkor wrote:
I'll admit, I'm not a people person. Most people are despicable to my eyes. I have little time for the human race as a rule. I'll go back to the macro section and mind my own business over there. At least the people aren't insulting....And I'll sure as hell bitch about it as much as I like, whether you, or the mods don't like it, tough shit
This really sounds like the type of person that should work out well in a networking environment. Dude, listen to yourself.
Dave, it's mildly amusing that you protest to care so little, yet your words completely and utterly betray you.
Sounds like the kind of person who restraining orders were invented for. Could you imagine melkor as a jilted ex-lover?
Of your three pictures:
1 is of iPhone quality, as discussed.
3 are very similar headshots.
Rail against it all you like, but that's the truth. Whether or not these were candid or not isn't the question. That they weren't good enough for MM is evident. Do you not have anything else? 3/4 shot, full length, a head shot with a different character or tone than what's posted (anime makeup and a gentle smile).
I DID take a moment to read your profile. I'd say that perhaps you focused a little too much on what you are currently doing for photography. I don't think they care one whit that you're either a macro or sports photographer. Tell them you want to work on your portraiture skills, and give them some images that show you might have the slightest inkling about portraiture already.
melkor wrote:
Thomas, I did link to my profile (mm.docx). At least, if you're going to comment, take the time to do your homework. That you used the word "maybe", indicates that you did not read the profile, and therefore, can't really make an unbiased comment.
Dave
In fact I made the effort, did the homework, it came up all jumbled but I read it anyway, formatting tags and all. It was quite lame, but to them, it's a maybe, can't speak for them. So, I'll take that apology any time now, thank you.
I sincerely believe that if this were about critiquing melkor's images, respondents would not have been nearly as sniping as they have been, nor would he have been as closed to commentary on how to improve his images. It's a perfect example of why criticism needs to be constructive, and why pointing out flaws for the sake of attacking others for perceived arrogance is completely useless to all parties involved.
As such this discussion has long since ceased to be about Model Mayhem, its application process, or the quality/utility of the service they provide; rather, it has degraded into a referendum on the aesthetic legitimacy of a single individual's work. And I really think everyone involved can do better and be better. I'm not interested in finger pointing. If you want to critique photos, do it the way you would want others to critique you. Even if your analysis has merit, even if you try to justify your tone by saying that the recipient has a bad attitude, couching it in incendiary language not only makes others shut down, it also makes you look petty.
Ian Bower, if you'd like to talk about how to set up shoots, find the right models, matching your abilities with their expectations, send me a pm or send me your aim and I'd be happy to chat with you. I've done ok with mm, so far having had a model fly from Halifax to San Francisco to work with me, staying a week, and boosting each of our portfolios.
I have had much success in contacting models on MM and have them work with me. I think it helps to have a lot of models that are already on MM in your portfolio and make sure you picture link them, as well.
+1 to all the positive things regarding MM. I have used it for 2 years, and have worked with about 25-models. I have had some come here to MIami from all around the world, and most all of them have been great. It's also nice to have a bunch on hand that you can use for some paid work.. without having to hire $$$ models!
Going to chime in here from the perspective of having a modeling and photographer's port on MM/OMP. I'm one of those models who is (was, I should say) in it for the fun of it, not because I'll wake up tomorrow with a phone call from Ford saying I'm the next Gisele.
I was able to work with three photographers, each with a different aesthetic, who all made me comfortable and never like I was just a means to an end, who included me in their process and their vision so that I could learn from them and as a result, everyone won. We both added lovely photos to our portfolios.
From a photographer's standpoint, well. I've approached 4 models on MM lately and 3 flaked, but the 4th is promising and we've got a shoot scheduled next weekend. Here's hoping that record changes, right?
Ian, it helps to give your model some idea of what to wear, otherwise she will agonize and feel awkward about it. If I just want to do a test shoot I specify casual clothing, appropriate to the environment we'll be in, in solid colors and bring a white/black shirt along just in case.
I will say that it's been a positive experience overall, and that comes from managing my expectations. The ladies on MM frequently expect Avedon-caliber work from a new photographer without paying a cent, and that's a really unreasonable expectation. Similarly, there are photographers on there who expect Daria Werbowy to step in front of that lens for TFP, and that's a really unreasonable expectation too. Especially when she's a Pamela Anderson at best. I'm just sayin'.
