I've started dabbling with film this year, and would like to look into getting a "real" camera (currently have a Holga). I'm not looking to get into the high-quality market necessarily, but when I see something like this:
It looks really interesting. Could anyone recommend a good resource to learn more and/or potential models I could be looking at? A distinctive type of image/camera personality is more important than out and out "image quality" to me.
APUG and rangefinderforum might be good places to start.
If you're looking for a good TLR I'd recommend a Yashicamat 124 (or 124G), a later Rolleicord, or the Autocord you linked to. All are between 100-200 bucks and have 70/3.5 Tessar-based lenses. They're very light and can get pretty sharp. I had a Rolleicord V for a while and sold it once I got a 120 Folder.
A lot of older TLRs will have very dark screens. There are plenty of places where you can get relpacement screens, but a later model like a Yashicamat is less likely to have a dim screen than an old Rolleicord is.
I wouldn't recommend 6x6 SLR systems (Kiev, Hasselblad, etc.) right now because they can get expensive and complicated. They're also much heavier and louder than the cameras above. If you really want interchangeable lenses, you could look into the Mamiya C TLRs, but again those are much heavier than fixed-lens TLRs.
By the way, everything mentioned here is 6x6cm square format. If you prefer 6x7 Pentax has some nice options. If you don't mind spending a bit more money, Fuji had some nice fixed-lens 6x9 rangefinders as well.
Awesome Sam, thanks. I'll take a look at those this evening.
Any idea what a price range would be for a pentax like you mention?
On first blush, I might be more interested in the TLR just because it is a less complex thing to use (self contained), but, if I could get a baseline slr for that "medium format look" that is attractive too. As you mention, I am not in the Hasselblad market or anything. I would just be interested in spending a few hundred dollars, max. I don't want a bunch of lenses and everything. Just an 80mm lens or so, and a body.
There are several medium format formats. I think making a decision about the format you want to use is the place to start. Basically you've got 6X4.5, 6X6, 6X7 and 6X9 followed by some panoramic formats. Personally I don't like the square format, so for me the various 6X6 cameras are out. Composing in the square is generally considered the most difficult format, though most 6X6 images are cropped to a rectangle for printing.
Within the formats there are a few choices of camera types.
1) SLR
2) Rangefinder/Viewfinder
3)Technical View Camera
4) TLR
The SLRs can vary from very portable solutions like a Mamiya 645, to a heavier options like the Pentax 67 or Hasselblad to the bellows focused, rotating back Mamiya RB67. The RB67 has incredibly sharp optics, but it is heavy and is easier to use with a tripod than to handhold. On the plus side, you can easily change film backs mid roll. The Pentax 67 is like a 35mm film SLR in that regard. The 645 SLR cameras are more like a 35mm SLR in both size and the ability to hand hold. All of these SLRs except the Hassy can be found used for very reasonable prices, especially considering their new prices. I'd say you can expect to find a good working kit for $300-500. I found an RB67 with two backs, two lenses, body, metered prism finder and some other bits for $350. I've seen a deal or two even better than that.
The MF rangefinders tend to be more expensive. There are some systems with interchangeable lenses, others with zoom lenses and some with fixed lenses. There are also folders and fixed mounts. Typically the folders are fixed lenses, but Fuji has a recent model with a zoom lens that retracts like a film point and shoot. Mamiya's 7 is an interchangeable lens 6X7 rangefinder and very well regarded, but one of these kits will usually start at $1000. Fuji made several MF rangefinders in 6X7 and 6X9 format with fixed lenses including models with wide angle lenses such as the GSW690. Then there are all the folding cameras. Some of these have coupled rangefinders, others (like my Kodak Brownie 2 or your Holga) just have a viewfinder.
TLRs are the area I haven't looked into much. They don't appeal much to me since most do not have interchangeable lenses and they are not especially compact.
I bought my MF kit to supplement the 4X5 view camera I usually shoot, mostly to reduce cost. I thought the quality increase would be worth moving up from 35mm. But for some reason, I'm not terribly fond of the medium format. The film has a thinner base than 35mm or sheet film, so its more difficult to keep flat for scanning. The RB67 I have is heavier than my 4X5 field kit and the lenses are heavier than the equivalent 4X5 lenses. On the plus side, I can change lenses and focus much faster than I can with the view camera.
Start with a Yashicamat, it's probably the cheapest, most reliable entry into medium format. Being fixed lens, you can't blow much money on extras, either!
I have and use a Minolta Autocord -- wonderful Rokkor lens. Make sure you get brighter viewing screen. Full setup can be had for less than $200 easily. Rolleicords are also fantastic -- buy for condition before model.
Top dog in made-in-Japan models, the Mamiya C330S. Here's my setup with chimney, but you would want wlf for anything handheld:
You can take the short trip to photo.net and go through their extensive archive of posts on medium format topics.
MF is an extremely broad church...at its largest extent (6x7 to 6x17 in 'regular' sizes) it can rival 4x5 in IQ thanks to sharper lenses, better film flatness, body integrity (wind resistance) and better scanning options. You miss far fewer shots as well, and can avoid that 'stationary world' 4x5 look.
At its smallest, 645, you get a clear jump on 35mm IQ (except for the latest high Mp DSLRs), and a lot of shots per roll, especially 220. 6x6 tends to become 645 quite often via cropping in post. But really you are getting into a very different look in film, and that is the big difference. B&H are really cheap for film purchases.
And Autocords, Rolleiflexes and their ilk are great for street work, esp B&W. Think about a Mamiya 6 with 50mm lens. best regards, Philip
I have an autocord like that, with the exact same problem: the focus knob is notoriously weak and will break sooner or later. Fixes are available online for the handyman. As for image quality, you can't go wrong with these.
I also shot weddings with a 330 like shown. Great system, beautiful images, but a bit slow to handle. I had a parallax correction adapter with it, which made it even slower. But if you shoot 'scapes, who cares.
For the money, I can't praise the Mamiya 645E enough if you are looking for a general use SLR. Aperture priority, good viewfinder, great handling if you add the rapid winder, and they are stinkin' cheap these days.
If you like direct view / rangefinder setups, the Fuji GA645 series is hard to beat. My "go to" medium format is a GA645.
siriusdogstar wrote:
over a year ago on eBay I got a Pentax 6x7 with MLU and metering viewfinder for $250US, subsequently:
S-M-C 104/2.4 (normal) for $125
S-M-C 75/4.5 (wide) for $140
S-M-C 55/4 (ultra-wide) for $200 (excellent price!!!)
S-M-C 135/4 (macro) for $150
S-M-C 150/2.8 for $125
S-M-C 200/4 for $150
S-M-C 90/2.8 (with leaf shutter) $120
$1260 for an entire 6x7 kit with 7 prime lenses!
Yeh, miss my Pentax 6x7 outfit. Slides scanned with a Nikon 8000 scanner were simply outstanding...yet to be matched by my 5D setup. Too bad the darn thing weighed a ton and required a heavy tripod...otherwise I'd still be trekking with it.
I have one general question. If I do this, will an epson v500 flatbed scanner be sufficient? I don't have a career depending on it, but if I am getting a better-quality body, I'd probably like to preserve the better quality shots when I want to while scanning.
@Mr Ladewig: I can't believe the trouble I'm having just getting my negatives scanned, with a crummy (actually, I like it) epson v500. This film curls so much, I think I am going to make a holder kind of thing out of two pieces of thin glass.
@sirimiri, k.v.r: I'll check both out
@plastic_lens: What is a decent price for one of those?
@pingflood: I'm not sure. I'll have to look at RF bodies more.
@chez: I was pricing those out today, but I wasn't aware they were considered so heavy. I can get that with my 5D & gear, I'm looking for lighter/simpler. Although really, heavy is prolly relative to the gear I tote around now anyhow.
I have a C330 with three lenses (65, 80, 135) that I no longer use. It took great pix the last time I used it and the shutters appear to still work well. I'm interested in selling if anybody's interested in buying. PM me and we'll talk price.
joekraft wrote:
@Mr Ladewig: I can't believe the trouble I'm having just getting my negatives scanned, with a crummy (actually, I like it) epson v500. This film curls so much, I think I am going to make a holder kind of thing out of two pieces of thin glass.
Thanks for the info here everyone. I've also been thinking of trying MF but, don't know if the hassle of film is worth it. I don't have a problem shooting film per se but, I've only ever shot 35mm. I've never even looked for something like 120 but, I guess I would assume the local photo shop should have some, no? Anyway, MF is in interesting to me but, I just don't know how much of a hassle the whole film thing would be. Of course there's always digital MF for about $20,000
If you want 6x6 and SLR capabilities, look at the Bronicas. I got a SQB with finder, back and 80/2.8 for 180 euros. The whole setup weighs about the same as my D2H with a 50/1.4 on it.
My "go to" medium format is a GA645.