I suggest you look at the Fuji 680 system which is no longer in manufacture but can be bought s/h like most MF gear at very good prices due to most MF photographers having migrated to digital.
The big advantage of the Fuji is that it has tilt, swing, rise and fall and lateral shift just like a view camera. Okay it is heavy and large which makes using it handheld cumbersome, but the Fuji lenses are amongst the best ever made for MF.
My kit purchased off eBay this year cost me around £1k and consists of a 680III body, pentaprism, 2 backs, and the following lenses 65mm f4, 100mm f4 & 180 f3.2.
I have one back loaded with Acros & the other with Ektar both at asa 64. I’m about to start experimenting with semi stand development with Acros and I would be very surprised if the 6x8cm negs do not rival the IQ of 5x4
The fuji system sounds like something I'd be very interested in, but £1k is too rich for my blood right now. I was thinking $300, $400 max, for a body and maybe one or two lenses. But I'd love to be able to do something like that.
A general question on format: what if anything, beyond aesthetics, should a person consider when deciding? My limited experience tells me I really like the square format of a holga, but I've never had to look at different formats, either. Printing is a concern I would have, as is how many frames you get from a roll.
joekraft wrote:
The fuji system sounds like something I'd be very interested in, but £1k is too rich for my blood right now. I was thinking $300, $400 max, for a body and maybe one or two lenses. But I'd love to be able to do something like that.
A general question on format: what if anything, beyond aesthetics, should a person consider when deciding? My limited experience tells me I really like the square format of a holga, but I've never had to look at different formats, either. Printing is a concern I would have, as is how many frames you get from a roll....Show more →
I think the biggest concern is what you plan on doing with it. For landscapes and studio work, a waist level viewfinder should work well. However, if you plan on walking around town with it, or shooting a wedding, an eyepiece may be more what you need.
Also, some systems use a bellows-type of focus system (the Mamiya RB and RZ cameras, for instance) and some focus on the lens.
for $400 you are not going to get much. Either cheap disposables, or a piss-beat RB67, pentax 67, or folder, maybe. 2 lenses? Not likely. $700 or so for a Fuji rangefinder (GW/GSW) is about the cheapest you can get into anything decent in the world of MF, I think.
I've been looking a little at lunch, and thinking about how I want to use this, and here is what I came up with.
The initial attraction of an mf/tlr system was the WLF - I want something that not only makes different-looking pictures, but that I would *use* differently. I like the idea of slowing down, composing, and using a different (waist-level) perspective.
If it were strictly about quality, I probably wouldn't be looking at this. I don't want to get something that is essentially a 5D, but with film. If I want accurate focus, metering, etc., I'm good with what I have. Those things would be nice in a camera of course, but are not primary drivers.
But, I have kids, too, and am going to want to capture action/candids of them. Is there a system/model that is pretty good at both? It is not clear to me if the eyepiece/wlf is a permanent decision. Are there systems that accomodate both?
Most of the MF systems can accomadate both the WLF and "eyepiece" viewfinder options. Takes less than a minute (at least on my camera) to change. If you feel you will be taking some action type shots of the kids, I recommend a metered finder so you don't have to mess around with using a light meter. You may also want to consider a system with a grip for better handholding ability. I'm sure you will enjoy the MF world - its a lot of fun.
I've been interested in this idea myself, so I went ahead and rented a Mamiya RB67 from the local shop. I went with the Mamiya because it was the one I had been able to check out in person. My only other option was a Hasselblad and I knew I didn't want a square format.
I was delighted with the results. I liked using the waist level finder, the ability to fine-tune the focus and focus at a very close range. The colors from the prints were amazing. I also rented a metered prism finder but I liked the wait-level better. I can always use my D-300 for metering.
Yes, it was heavy, but so what? I wanted to shoot landscapes, not sports or candids. My reasoning is that I can get a whole set-up for about 350-500 dollars as compared to $1400 for a 14-24 Nikon + $2000plus for a D700 body. Since I don't shoot landscapes often, the cost of film is a non-issue. I also have them scanned at the lab, I don't have time to bother with that.
If you want to take pictures of kids an MF may not be the right choice, since the auto-focus lenses and bodies are rather expensive.
Bottom line, I will be getting a MF system in the short time-frame. Probably a Mamiya RB67 (maybe a 645 but I have not found one to check and am confused by all the large model selection)
Good luck
Carlos
joekraft wrote:
I've been looking a little at lunch, and thinking about how I want to use this, and here is what I came up with.
The initial attraction of an mf/tlr system was the WLF - I want something that not only makes different-looking pictures, but that I would *use* differently. I like the idea of slowing down, composing, and using a different (waist-level) perspective.
If it were strictly about quality, I probably wouldn't be looking at this. I don't want to get something that is essentially a 5D, but with film. If I want accurate focus, metering, etc., I'm good with what I have. Those things would be nice in a camera of course, but are not primary drivers.
But, I have kids, too, and am going to want to capture action/candids of them. Is there a system/model that is pretty good at both? It is not clear to me if the eyepiece/wlf is a permanent decision. Are there systems that accomodate both?
I just got a working (and pretty darn clean) Yashica-Mat on ebay for $100, and if you decided to go with a TLR for around that price, maybe that would leave you with some money for something else more suited for action and candids.
An overlooked MF bargain is the Hasselblad ELM. Bodies with waist level finder, 9 volt battery adapter, in EX cond., are selling at KEH for less than $200. Add an 80mm f/2.8 C lens for under $500 and an A12 film mag and you are good to go with a nice system.
"A distinctive type of image/camera personality"
It would be difficult to find a more distinctive camera than the one that was the camera of the Moon landing program.
SHVv wrote:
"A distinctive type of image/camera personality"
Yeah I was wondering what that means exactly... I mean all the MF cameras I've used (or know of) are all at various stages between very good and near perfection optically, making it very hard to tell them apart just by looking at photos. Not the way that you would recognise a Holga photo for example. One exception I can think of is the Norita 66 with the kit 80/2 lens. I would recognise these photos anywhere, simply because it's the only 6X6 camera with such crazy narrow dof. Not a bad camera either but I doubt it'd fit in your budget as it has a bit of a cult following lately and that always pushes prices up.
I can't say what it means *exactly*, but what I was getting at, is that I wasn't looking at this for the purpose of rivaling a 1DsIII on the cheap, or doing super high resolution scans so I could make really large prints, etc. I'm not going to pixel-peep anything from these cameras necessarily. But it appears the quality of even the cheaper ones is much higher than I expected.
The interest for me is a different way of shooting, using a different kind of camera. I've been very pleasantly surprised at the images I am seeing out of some of the cheaper bodies suggested, but you are right, spyro - I wrote that thinking there was a greater variability, and some of the TLRs might be more holga-like.
Mike, do it with care and patience. Cant find them in the usual suspects (KEH, B&H, adorama), they come up on ebay infrequently and most bodies range between inoperative to badly in need of CLA. Check with the seller to make sure it works and dont pay more than $500-$600 with the kit lens. There's a flickr group called Norita 66 or something like that, read the discussions there. The photos do look awesome though
That Norita 66 with the F2 lens is an old, rare bird. I think I have only seen one at a camera show during the past 15 years or so.
As for fast, normal lenses on MF, I would suspect that a Pentax 67 with the 105 2.4 lens would give some fairly shallow dof wide open though I have not used that combo myself. It is readily available though and likely cheaper than the Norita.
TLR/SLR are probably better for kids/portraits than a rangefinder. But optically a rangefinder has more advantages (lens design) and is lighter to pack into the field for landscapes. RZ67 is a great portrait camera, not a great field camera IMO. I think unless you can't deal with the rangefinder close-focus issues and need faster lenses, it's hard to beat the Mamiya 7. I have a pair of Fujis, a Mamiya 7, and am considering an RZ67 for portraits only.
I just went through this same process myself, and decided I wanted something small and hand-holdable for a long time but didn't want to spend the money for a Mamiya 6 or 7 (even though they're awesome cameras.)
The old Mamiya M645 can be had for VERY cheap. It also has an available 80/1.9 lens which is quite good (and fast! Most RF lenses are around f4). The whole system is reasonably sized, and even if you splurge for a metered finder, it can all be had for less than a third of an equivalent rangefinder system.
I would've preferred 6x7, but the RB/RZ is a hulking beast in comparison. And I think you'll be quite impressed if you get good scans... plus the fast lens and some Tri-X pushed to 1600 makes it a camera with a VERY wide range of uses. With big film the grain is really nice, first time I checked it out under an enlarger I was so impressed compared to 135. Reala or Velvia in daylight, Tri-X indoors and at night.
You really can't go wrong with any of these systems though. Have fun.
I have a Norita 66 and it's a great older camera. It's a big SLR, but the thing is very well-weighted and has very minimal mirror-slap, unlike the even heavier Pentax 67. Most Noritas left have been well-used, but most just need a CLA to fix the film advance (Ross Yerkes in CA is the man for this).
I have both the fantastic 80/2, and the 55/4. The camera is a blast to shoot, and makes great negs. I only wish I could get one of the elusive wlf for this camera. Here's a pic of mine with one of my sons:
