This topic is in the 2009 archive. You can read it and like its posts here. It is read only.
Archive 2009Jeff Ascough and 1D4
p.3 #1Jeff Ascough and 1D4
Maybe I will give HDVideo a go... Still haven't com around to play with it on my 5D2. Meanwhile, where are you situated?
I am not far from Amstelveen Bovenkerkerweg
you remember Daan 
Still the hotspot for EOSfun in Europe (for a little while, cause the HQ will move to London soon 
)
I am sure you want to share your 1D4 experience with me.
I just did above didn't I? What would you like to know more Daan? Not that I am sure I am able to a lot of tests these days, since I am in a hurry for an event, but if I could answer your questions I would be more than happy to do so.
Have fun!
I am not far from Amstelveen Bovenkerkerweg
you remember Daan Still the hotspot for EOSfun in Europe (for a little while, cause the HQ will move to London soon )I am sure you want to share your 1D4 experience with me.
I just did above didn't I? What would you like to know more Daan? Not that I am sure I am able to a lot of tests these days, since I am in a hurry for an event, but if I could answer your questions I would be more than happy to do so.
Have fun!
Nov 25, 2009 at 01:50 AM
p.3 #2Jeff Ascough and 1D4
Dawei Ye wrote:
Did you click on the picture? That's the 100% crop (image in new window) and it looks ugly
Agreed. The noise grain is pretty coarse. They should have squeezed 32 MP into that APS-H sensor to give the noise a finer grain look.
Did you click on the picture? That's the 100% crop (image in new window) and it looks ugly
Agreed. The noise grain is pretty coarse. They should have squeezed 32 MP into that APS-H sensor to give the noise a finer grain look.
Nov 25, 2009 at 02:02 AM
p.3 #3Jeff Ascough and 1D4
I shoot moving subjects at weddings the whole time with One Shot - on a 5D. If they aren't moving too fast such as someone walking, with enough contrast the camera can focus and shoot within a fraction of a second, plenty time. I've shot weddings for 7 years and never once used AI Servo.
Nov 25, 2009 at 02:22 AM
p.3 #4Jeff Ascough and 1D4
eosfun wrote:
I am not far from Amstelveen Bovenkerkerweg you remember Daan Still the hotspot for EOSfun in Europe (for a little while, cause the HQ will move to London soon )
Just checking
I just did above didn't I? What would you like to know more Daan? Not that I am sure I am able to a lot of tests these days, since I am in a hurry for an event, but if I could answer your questions I would be more than happy to do so.
Well, you gave your opinion... as many others do too... and some haven't even seen the cam for real yet...
One thing I learnt about these matters, is to form my own opinion after I have used a new product myself.
No offense
I guess I should stop by Amstelveen when they have some 1D4's lying around (maybe they already have... you should know
)
I am not far from Amstelveen Bovenkerkerweg
you remember Daan Still the hotspot for EOSfun in Europe (for a little while, cause the HQ will move to London soon )Just checking
I just did above didn't I? What would you like to know more Daan? Not that I am sure I am able to a lot of tests these days, since I am in a hurry for an event, but if I could answer your questions I would be more than happy to do so.
Well, you gave your opinion... as many others do too... and some haven't even seen the cam for real yet...
One thing I learnt about these matters, is to form my own opinion after I have used a new product myself.
No offense
I guess I should stop by Amstelveen when they have some 1D4's lying around (maybe they already have... you should know
)Nov 25, 2009 at 03:27 AM
p.3 #5Jeff Ascough and 1D4
One thing I learnt about these matters, is to form my own opinion after I have used a new product myself.
That is exactly my thoughts
they have some 1D4's lying around (maybe they already have... you should know )
Not many, and most of the demo camera's are on the road with account managers visiting camerastores, studio's and newsagencies. I suggest you watch closely where a demo site is in your neighbourhood. I heard earlier this morning that Noud van den Boer (colleague Canon NL) is doing a demonstration at Kamera Express in Capelle aan den IJssel the day after tomorrow (27th november). If you want some arrangement for a personal demo, I am sure you can contact him at Canon the Netherlands. You have the contacts have you? http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/contact_us/representatives.do Have EOSfun
That is exactly my thoughts
they have some 1D4's lying around (maybe they already have... you should know )
Not many, and most of the demo camera's are on the road with account managers visiting camerastores, studio's and newsagencies. I suggest you watch closely where a demo site is in your neighbourhood. I heard earlier this morning that Noud van den Boer (colleague Canon NL) is doing a demonstration at Kamera Express in Capelle aan den IJssel the day after tomorrow (27th november). If you want some arrangement for a personal demo, I am sure you can contact him at Canon the Netherlands. You have the contacts have you? http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/contact_us/representatives.do Have EOSfun
Nov 25, 2009 at 03:39 AM
p.3 #6Jeff Ascough and 1D4
eosfun wrote:
That is exactly my thoughts
Not many, and most of the demo camera's are on the road with account managers visiting camerastores, studio's and newsagencies. I suggest you watch closely where a demo site is in your neighbourhood. I heard earlier this morning that Noud van den Boer (colleague Canon NL) is doing a demonstration at Kamera Express in Capelle aan den IJssel the day after tomorrow (27th november). If you want some arrangement for a personal demo, I am sure you can contact him at Canon the Netherlands. You have the contacts have you? http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/contact_us/representatives.do Have EOSfun
Ok, maybe I will drop by KE... thanks
Yeah, I know where to reach Noud or Berend
Earlier quote
One thing I learnt about these matters, is to form my own opinion after I have used a new product myself.Earlier quote
they have some 1D4's lying around (maybe they already have... you should know )Ok, maybe I will drop by KE... thanks
Yeah, I know where to reach Noud or Berend
Nov 25, 2009 at 03:47 AM
p.3 #7Jeff Ascough and 1D4
About the ISO 12800 shot: the exposure time is 1/800, f/2.5. That is quite some light and it would have been enough for shooting at 1/200, f/1.8 and ISO 1600. Usually the noise gets worse at the same ISO as the light goes lower (less photons hit the sensor, so noise is getting an increase). If you shoot at ISO 12800 in bright daylight at 1/4000 and f/11 I can guarantee that you get much less noise than into a shot at 1/50, f/1.4 and ISO 12800. That's one thing.
We see a JPG file and we don't know how much PP has gone into it (including NR). So I would not jump happily that (wow) 1d mk IV rocks the socks out of all cameras out there by miles.
As far as tracking a subject is concerned, I get more than 66% shots sharp with my 85 1.2L II @f1.2, 1/200, ISO 3200 and 1ds mk III when the bride is walking towards the altar and it is withing the 3-8 meters distance range.
We see a JPG file and we don't know how much PP has gone into it (including NR). So I would not jump happily that (wow) 1d mk IV rocks the socks out of all cameras out there by miles.
As far as tracking a subject is concerned, I get more than 66% shots sharp with my 85 1.2L II @f1.2, 1/200, ISO 3200 and 1ds mk III when the bride is walking towards the altar and it is withing the 3-8 meters distance range.
Nov 25, 2009 at 04:37 AM
p.3 #8Jeff Ascough and 1D4
adimage wrote:
About the ISO 12800 shot: the exposure time is 1/800, f/2.5. That is quite some light and it would have been enough for shooting at 1/200, f/1.8 and ISO 1600. Usually the noise gets worse at the same ISO as the light goes lower (less photons hit the sensor, so noise is getting an increase). If you shoot at ISO 12800 in bright daylight at 1/4000 and f/11 I can guarantee that you get much less noise than into a shot at 1/50, f/1.4 and ISO 12800. That's one thing.
...
Two comments on that...
- 1/800s may be the correct choice to freeze action better than 1/200s. This choice may not even be possible with other cameras.
- If he had used lower ISO people would have complained about how they want to see higher ISO and why didn't he use that...
About the ISO 12800 shot: the exposure time is 1/800, f/2.5. That is quite some light and it would have been enough for shooting at 1/200, f/1.8 and ISO 1600. Usually the noise gets worse at the same ISO as the light goes lower (less photons hit the sensor, so noise is getting an increase). If you shoot at ISO 12800 in bright daylight at 1/4000 and f/11 I can guarantee that you get much less noise than into a shot at 1/50, f/1.4 and ISO 12800. That's one thing.
...
Two comments on that...
- 1/800s may be the correct choice to freeze action better than 1/200s. This choice may not even be possible with other cameras.
- If he had used lower ISO people would have complained about how they want to see higher ISO and why didn't he use that...
Nov 25, 2009 at 04:52 AM
p.3 #9Jeff Ascough and 1D4
I can't help but think that, while I'm a big Jeff Ascough fan and a Canon user who loves his 5DII, these images - specifically in terms of high-ISO performance - don't hold a candle to what I've seen from the D3s.
Take for example, this image shot by Rob Galbraith.
12800 D3s
That, in my book is a clean image. Look at the blacks!!!
Take for example, this image shot by Rob Galbraith.
12800 D3s
That, in my book is a clean image. Look at the blacks!!!
Nov 25, 2009 at 05:18 AM
p.3 #10Jeff Ascough and 1D4
I was not commenting about the choice to use 1/800, I was just saying the the light there was not very low and usually a high shutter speed gives you less noise. Maybe not to the level where we can distinguish between 1/200 and 1/800, but anyway, the point is that if there were 3 stops less light, the noise on that same image (at 12800 ISO) would have been a bit higher.
Nov 25, 2009 at 05:30 AM
p.3 #11Jeff Ascough and 1D4
From my personal experience, the noise I see in online tests for high ISO (wich are done in plenty of light) is less than what I get in the real life conditions, where those very high ISOs are really needed (meaning very low light).
Nov 25, 2009 at 05:33 AM
p.3 #12Jeff Ascough and 1D4
While it's interesting in general, I personally don't really care how this camera compares to any other brand, only to the other Canon cameras I have. No matter how well the D3s performs it's not a factor in my evaluation of the 1D Mark IV since I'm not inclined to switch brands and replace all my bodies, lenses and accessories. I'm guessing that's true for most of us; it's just worrying about something that has no bearing on your choices.
Nov 25, 2009 at 05:43 AM
p.3 #13Jeff Ascough and 1D4
the point is that if there were 3 stops less light, the noise on that same image (at 12800 ISO) would have been a bit higher.
This is so true. The visibility of noise is about the signal to noise ratio. Sports photos, in relatively bright light in comparison to a dim lit street or a dark pub interior, that have been set to high ISO for the shutter speed show much better at the same ISO speed than the shots from that low light pub or street. In both cases the right exposure is quintessential. I guess the high ISO noise resistance is for that reason better for (relatively) well lit situations. Anyway, the 1DmkIV is again a step forward in comparison to the 1dmkIII. It's in my limited experience so far about 1,5 to 2 stops better. A shot at 12.800 looks about the same as a 3200 from the 1DmkIII, which was not bad either. Will give me a little more headroom in the church or theatre, but not so much as to get overwhelmed, since the 1D(s)mkIII are for those lighting conditions already very satisfying to my taste. I guess it's the sportsphotographers and street photojournalists that will like the new high ISO treatment best. They can go to higher shutter speeds and/or do their reporting job without a flash more often.
Enjoy the new cam, EOSfun!
This is so true. The visibility of noise is about the signal to noise ratio. Sports photos, in relatively bright light in comparison to a dim lit street or a dark pub interior, that have been set to high ISO for the shutter speed show much better at the same ISO speed than the shots from that low light pub or street. In both cases the right exposure is quintessential. I guess the high ISO noise resistance is for that reason better for (relatively) well lit situations. Anyway, the 1DmkIV is again a step forward in comparison to the 1dmkIII. It's in my limited experience so far about 1,5 to 2 stops better. A shot at 12.800 looks about the same as a 3200 from the 1DmkIII, which was not bad either. Will give me a little more headroom in the church or theatre, but not so much as to get overwhelmed, since the 1D(s)mkIII are for those lighting conditions already very satisfying to my taste. I guess it's the sportsphotographers and street photojournalists that will like the new high ISO treatment best. They can go to higher shutter speeds and/or do their reporting job without a flash more often.
Enjoy the new cam, EOSfun!
Nov 25, 2009 at 06:30 AM
p.3 #14Jeff Ascough and 1D4
According to the Marv IV white paper it's supposed to be apprxoimately 2 stops better than the Mark III, one stop from improved sensor hardware, one stop from DIGIC 4 image processing. I interpret the paper to mean this comparison is for JPEGs, so it's a bit unclear if this automatically also is valid for raw. (?)
"Compared to the EOS-1D Mark III, the result is an improvement of approximately 1 stop in sensitivity despite the reduction in pixel size, and this is without considering the additional 1 stop of improvement for in-camera JPEGs that’s made possible by the advanced image processing technology of the Dual DIGIC 4 Image Processors"
"Compared to the EOS-1D Mark III, the result is an improvement of approximately 1 stop in sensitivity despite the reduction in pixel size, and this is without considering the additional 1 stop of improvement for in-camera JPEGs that’s made possible by the advanced image processing technology of the Dual DIGIC 4 Image Processors"
Nov 25, 2009 at 06:35 AM
p.3 #15Jeff Ascough and 1D4
I love all the sides of this 
In any given thread about any lens, camera, whatever is being tested the quality of the photo is based only on your perception of the gear being tested. Seriously, what can you really tell from a 3" compressed jpeg picture on the web. But, because it's the new Canon 1D4, it's crap.
In any given thread about any lens, camera, whatever is being tested the quality of the photo is based only on your perception of the gear being tested. Seriously, what can you really tell from a 3" compressed jpeg picture on the web. But, because it's the new Canon 1D4, it's crap.Nov 25, 2009 at 06:50 AM
p.3 #16Jeff Ascough and 1D4
Don't know how you get that impression, I see both positive and negative opinions here.
Maybe *your* perception of this isn't quite objective?
Maybe *your* perception of this isn't quite objective?
Nov 25, 2009 at 06:53 AM
p.3 #17Jeff Ascough and 1D4
Yeah, mk IV sucks big time, because now I want to trade one of my 1d III's to get an 1ds III and the 1d III price is going lower.
I try to be realistic in this, and I would expect that in real life the 1d mk IV will be one stop better in RAW files compared to the 1d mk III. I would expect the pixel noise to be about the same or very slightly better than mk III, but due to the bigger resolution to compesate to about 1 stop. We see this already: 1ds mk III at ISO 3200, downsized to 10mp looks like 1d at ISO 3200.
I try to be realistic in this, and I would expect that in real life the 1d mk IV will be one stop better in RAW files compared to the 1d mk III. I would expect the pixel noise to be about the same or very slightly better than mk III, but due to the bigger resolution to compesate to about 1 stop. We see this already: 1ds mk III at ISO 3200, downsized to 10mp looks like 1d at ISO 3200.
Nov 25, 2009 at 07:00 AM
p.3 #18Jeff Ascough and 1D4
Yes, what I hoped for compared to the Mark III was two stops plus the effect of down-sizing, but that is probably a little too optimistic.
Nov 25, 2009 at 07:03 AM
p.3 #19Jeff Ascough and 1D4
tonyhart wrote:
I can't help but think that, while I'm a big Jeff Ascough fan and a Canon user who loves his 5DII, these images - specifically in terms of high-ISO performance - don't hold a candle to what I've seen from the D3s.
Take for example, this image shot by Rob Galbraith.
12800 D3s
That, in my book is a clean image. Look at the blacks!!!
Can you spell noise reduction? all the reviewers seem to like posting images with heavy NR than waxing lyrical about IQ. Only one review site likes to just post noise crops without any NR...that is TDP. Not surprisingly the cameras look terrible even at ISO 100
I can't help but think that, while I'm a big Jeff Ascough fan and a Canon user who loves his 5DII, these images - specifically in terms of high-ISO performance - don't hold a candle to what I've seen from the D3s.
Take for example, this image shot by Rob Galbraith.
12800 D3s
That, in my book is a clean image. Look at the blacks!!!
Can you spell noise reduction?
all the reviewers seem to like posting images with heavy NR than waxing lyrical about IQ. Only one review site likes to just post noise crops without any NR...that is TDP. Not surprisingly the cameras look terrible even at ISO 100Nov 25, 2009 at 07:07 AM
p.3 #20Jeff Ascough and 1D4
Dawei Ye wrote:
Did you click on the picture? That's the 100% crop (image in new window) and it looks ugly
No, I didnt. Thanks for the notification. He fooled me there, the true crop is not as impressive.
alundeb wrote
Indeed. Best ISO 12800 crop I've ever seen.No, I didnt. Thanks for the notification. He fooled me there, the true crop is not as impressive.
Nov 25, 2009 at 07:27 AM