kakomu
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 p.2 #9 · Another photographer is raiding my Facebook friends list | |
benj wrote:
@ - Kakomu - You said,
"if a business advertised their clients, there's nothing wrong with a competitor looking at the list and utilizing it for their own purposes."
If you read what the poster of this thread said, he wasn't "advertising" the friends list. He was unaware, until today, that you could make it private. So he's NOT advertising his clients. It would be the same as if he accidentally dropped a roster of his clients on the ground in the parking lot, and the offender picked it up (knowing what it was).
Is it legal for him to look at? Yes. Is it ethical? NO! That is the point I'm trying to make. You assume that just because his client list is available (i.e. on a facebook friend list or in a roster that was dropped in the parking lot), that it's fair game and we shouldn't be complaining. ...Show more →
Actually, it's quite different. The OP uses Facebook to advertise. The friends (client) list is attached to his advertisements and published on a FREE and PUBLIC forum. OP did not accidentally drop this list. He didn't accidentally expose a database nor did he accidentally give someone a password and free passage to the list.
Whereas, picking up a piece of paper that was accidentally dropped or improperly disposed of is a breach of security.
benj wrote:
I guess if we were all a bunch of back stabbing, unethical businessmen/women, then perhaps you'd be right. But I tend to think that despite the lack of legal mandates concerning these issues, that there is an unwritten law of respect and propriety. It's what divides the neanderthals from the true human beings.
Where is the backstabbing and what is so unethical about this?
Backstabbing is when one person trusts a second person with something and the second person hurts the first with this trust. A common scenario is a firm employing lawyer A. Lawyer A decides he wants to start his own practice and before he leaves, he contacts many of the clients he worked with in the firm about his imminent departure asking if they left. That would be backstabbing the firm he previously worked for.
So, if OP gave the other photographer this client list with some explicit trust to use it for another purpose, but the other photographer decides to use it for their own benefit and hurting the OP in the process, that would be backstabbing. This isn't the case (nor is it even close).
Unethical business practices typically deal with illegal, deceptive or dishonest practices. The aforementioned smearing would be unethical. Lying about the OP would be unethical. Using a resource that's freely available is not unethical.
Again, just because Person X is a client of the OP does not mean that the other photographer cannot advertise to Person X. Consumers are allowed to make choices about which people do their services for them and in the same vein businesses are allowed to advertise to people that have chosen their competitors in the past. I'm sure you've seen a car dealership with a billboard across the street advertising another dealership. Nothing unethical about that. Tacky, maybe, but nothing wrong with it.
benj wrote:
If, CRFTony was actually advertising his list with the goal of showing people who his clients were, then you'd be 100% right. But he wasn't. He was just not sure how to make the list private. He probably didn't think it was necessary, because he lives by the unwritten law that I'm talking about.
What other purpose did CRFTony have for having a friends list of clients in the first place?
benj wrote:
As for whether CRFTony is up to the challenge is a moot point. The point is, that in essence, this offender crossed the line drawn by the unwritten law. This offender is living in a cut throat world, and decided it was okay to reap the benefit of someone else's hard work and merit.
What is this unwritten law and to where does it extend? I've never heard of this unwritten law except for in this forum. I've never seen this sort of outrage except for in the photography business. Again, it seems to be more of a territory issue as opposed to any other issue at hand. Certainly you should understand that in ANY (legitimate) business, territories don't exist.
benj wrote:
You can justify it any way you want, but ultimately, it comes down to what is right and proper. People justify wrong actions every day because of what is "legal". They don't have their own moral compass, so they resort to flexing their morals to whatever is currently legal or illegal only to change when the law changes.
This is about taking the moral high ground, and we need more people like CRFTony who recognize where that road is, and who would never dream of leaching off the merit and work of another human being. That is, I believe, the cause of much of the entitlement we see in our country. We have too many people that think that they are entitled to the work of other people....Show more →
What is the immorality? You keep throwing out a lot of infractions that this other photographer has committed, but you haven't really quantified or qualified what is so wrong about the action. You're clinging to this absolute moralistic view and asking people to make a logical leap from point A to point C, but you're leaving out the why.
So, please, explain in explicit detail why this is so wrong.
Moreover, what is the other photographer leeching? It's not like client list = instant business.
benj wrote:
Benj
p.s. This principle applies whether you're a stock broker, a photographer, a stay at home mom, or whatever. We need to refine our sense of what is right and ethical, and not just rely on the crudeness of legality to be our guide. The laws are the lowest standard that we should live by. We should be seeking to live by the higher unwritten laws.
What principle can possibly apply to both a stay-at-home-mom and a stock broker?
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