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Archive 2009 · Image Quality - A850 or D700

  
 
Chris48
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p.1 #1 · Image Quality - A850 or D700


I am going to replace my Canon 5D by the end of this year. I have read many good things about the 2 cameras. But which will give me better image quality?

I like landscape photography and I shoot raw mostly. Speed, high MP and high ISO are not needed. Lens selection is also not important as I will be using alternative lenses on either camera.

What I want most is good image quality, in terms of good, pleasing colors (not necessarily the most accurate colors) for leaves, the sea and the sky, ability to render contrasty scenes, and also without the need for extensive PP before getting optimal results.

All comments will be appreciated.



Nov 16, 2009 at 06:31 AM
lacksative
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p.1 #2 · Image Quality - A850 or D700


I don't have any experience with the Sony a850 nor a900, but dpreview claims that the a900 - which shares the same sensor than 850 - has a pretty big advantage in dynamic range and D700 being worse of the bunch. This may be a thing to consider since you shoot landscapes.

Here's a link:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonydslra900/page24.asp



Nov 16, 2009 at 07:17 AM
ulrikft2
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p.1 #3 · Image Quality - A850 or D700


That dpreview test is.. weird, a pretty much totally different result at dx0:

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng/DxOMark-Sensor/(appareil)/D700/(metrics)/




Nov 16, 2009 at 07:33 AM
Tariq Gibran
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p.1 #4 · Image Quality - A850 or D700


a850. You will appreciate the greater dynamic range and resolution.


Nov 16, 2009 at 07:35 AM
mortyb
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p.1 #5 · Image Quality - A850 or D700


I'm having an eye on the A850 as well. Regarding dynamic range, dxomark.com ranks the D700 a tad higher in that department. Same goes for Color Sensivity and Tonal Range.

Another thing that caught my eye is the comparison between the A900 and A850 in "Color Response". The A900 scores a tad higher than the A850. However, in "Color Sensivity" they are identical.

Anyways, these are just numbers.



Nov 16, 2009 at 07:46 AM
Yakim Peled
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p.1 #6 · Image Quality - A850 or D700


Lens selection is important. Which lenses are you going to use? Also, in what way is your 5D not satisfying?

BTW, if you are going to use a variety of lenses from different manufacturers then my recommendation goes to the 5D2 as the shorter FFD will allow you greater versatility.

Happy shooting,
Yakim.




Nov 16, 2009 at 08:04 AM
Navyblue
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p.1 #7 · Image Quality - A850 or D700


Chris48 wrote:
I like landscape photography and I shoot raw mostly. Speed, high MP and high ISO are not needed. Lens selection is also not important as I will be using alternative lenses on either camera.


If those aspects you mentioned are unimportant, it sounds like you should stick to your 5D, especially if alternate lenses adaptability is important.



Nov 16, 2009 at 10:40 AM
slungu
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p.1 #8 · Image Quality - A850 or D700


It is important to see it not only as a camera but as a system. You wrote that lens selection is not important, but it is. Alternate lenses go or not on some cameras, or are easily adapted or not. With this in mind, I would advise to a Canon as it is the easyest system to adapt a large variety of lenses. On the Sony, you have those made specificaly for it and then those that can be converted ( see the leitax web page ). Same goes for Nikon. On the other hand, if for example you like Zeiss lenses, look at the new Zx lineup to determine if it fits the bill for you - they don't make them in ZA. So, many things to consider, not only the camera.


Nov 16, 2009 at 10:47 AM
DubiousDrewski
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p.1 #9 · Image Quality - A850 or D700


I'm also a bit confused as to why the OP isn't planning on going to the 5D2. For what you need, it seems to fit the bill better than the other two bodies you mention.


Nov 16, 2009 at 11:17 AM
douglasf13
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p.1 #10 · Image Quality - A850 or D700


There is no better 35mm option for low ISO shooting than the A850/A900, currently. Great color, no banding/pattern noise when bringing up shadows, high resolution and DR, etc. However, if you don't need better high ISO OR high mp, then I'm wondering why you need to replace your 5D at all?


Nov 16, 2009 at 11:36 AM
James R
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p.1 #11 · Image Quality - A850 or D700


Nikon, Canon, and Sony all make good cameras. There are many excellent landscape pros using these systems to make their living.

Why not get a 5D2, since you already have the glass? Generally, it is rarely cost effective to change systems, unless you are a pro and the change helps your bottom line. The real cost in changing systems is found in glass and peripherals. Sony cameras are vary competitively priced, but, that is about the only thing that is cheap. Nikon is no better price-wise, except their cameras cost a little more. BTW, I've seen some great shots from a 5DII using a Nikon 14-24, which is a super lens.

I'm just wondering about what you gain from the changing systems? You might look into a 4X5 or MF system, if you are really serious about shooting landscapes.



Nov 16, 2009 at 11:47 AM
douglasf13
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p.1 #12 · Image Quality - A850 or D700


If Chris only uses alt glass, and those lenses do indeed have the option of being used on the Sony, than there's no reason not to change and, with the A900, he'll better low ISO performance than the 5Dii (not to mention files that require less "work" in post.)


Nov 16, 2009 at 11:51 AM
James R
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p.1 #13 · Image Quality - A850 or D700


douglasf13 wrote:
If Chris only uses alt glass, and those lenses do indeed have the option of being used on the Sony, than there's no reason not to change and, with the A900, he'll better low ISO performance than the 5Dii (not to mention files that require less "work" in post.)


Stated like a true Sony shooter. However, I agree that I'd go for the a900 over the a850, if improved low ISO were important (and I was changing systems). As to color, using a Macbeth chart or WhiBal when shooting only takes a few secs.



Nov 16, 2009 at 12:33 PM
douglasf13
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p.1 #14 · Image Quality - A850 or D700


This really isn't a matter of opinion. The A900 has more resolution, more DR**, and lacks pattern/banding noise compared to the 5Dii at low ISO. As far as color is concerned, I'm not talking about profiling or WB, but rather CFAs in the camera. Sony uses a narrower pass-band CFA than both Canon and Nikon (especially Canon. one of their green channels is practically yellow at this point,) and this has low ISO advantages, but high ISO disadvantages, because it requires more amplification. The 5Dii and A900 have different design thrusts***, and I would certainly recommend the 5Dii over the A900 to someone looking for great ISO ~1250+, but, at low ISO, the A900 is a better performer (granted, the 5Dii is certainly capable at low ISO.) Heck, I might even say the 5Dii is a better "all-around" camera in terms of IQ, but the OP clearly stated that low ISO was his intention.

p.s. the jury is still out as to whether the IQ of the A900 and A850 are identical or not. I'm waiting on Iliah Borg's results.

**the D3x has even more DR, but worse color separation, so pick your poison.

***in the APS-C world, Sony has geared the new A500/550 more towards high ISO performance.



Edited on Nov 16, 2009 at 12:54 PM · View previous versions



Nov 16, 2009 at 12:52 PM
m_appeal
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p.1 #15 · Image Quality - A850 or D700


I had the D700, and won't go back to 12 MP after seeing the detail with the high-res cameras. A850 should be better up to at least ISO 800 if not more, and since you don't even care about high ISO, it seems a no-brainer to me. The Sonys excel at low ISO and color. I think you are going to love more detail for landscape/

I really don't think the high ISO differences between all the cameras once processed properly are going to be that great. 5d2 & d700 will probably be best, but you don't care about high ISO.



Nov 16, 2009 at 12:54 PM
James R
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p.1 #16 · Image Quality - A850 or D700


douglasf13 wrote:
This really isn't a matter of opinion. The A900 has more resolution, more DR**, and lacks pattern/banding noise compared to the 5Dii at low ISO. As far as color is concerned, I'm not talking about profiling or WB, but rather CFAs in the camera. Sony uses a narrower pass-band CFA than both Canon and Nikon (especially Canon. one of their green channels is practically yellow at this point,) and this has low ISO advantages, but high ISO disadvantages, because it requires more amplification. The 5Dii and A900 have different design thrusts***, and I would certainly recommend the 5Dii over
...Show more

I've seen landscape prints shot with a D3X, a900, and 1Ds3 and I don't think there are significant IQ differences between them, provided you are using pro glass. IMO, any differences are not sufficient to justify switching systems.

That said, I do find people tend to ask opinions after they have pretty much made up their mind. So, I wish the OP the best with his new system.




Nov 16, 2009 at 02:39 PM
edwardkaraa
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p.1 #17 · Image Quality - A850 or D700


Imho, for landscapes, there is no better option than the A900/850. The colors are just amazing, and most of the time files do not require any PP whatsoever. I also love the colors of the D3X but the price is quite prohibitive. Having used Canon for many years, I have never been so fond of the Canon color. Files required a lot of PP and even then, I'm more happy with the files I get right out of the A900 than with post processed Canon files. Color rendition was the main reason that made me switch.

I would say shooting with the A900 is like shooting Fujichrome Provia while my old 1Ds2 files were more like cheap commercial negative film



Nov 16, 2009 at 02:48 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.1 #18 · Image Quality - A850 or D700


James R wrote:
I've seen landscape prints shot with a D3X, a900, and 1Ds3 and I don't think there are significant IQ differences between them, provided you are using pro glass. IMO, any differences are not sufficient to justify switching systems.

That said, I do find people tend to ask opinions after they have pretty much made up their mind. So, I wish the OP the best with his new system.



Yes, but none of those cameras you mention are 5DII's which is what some are suggesting as an alternative to the Sony's. For low ISO, greater DR and color reproduction, a 5DII is simply inferior just as the Sony FF is inferior at high ISO's.



Nov 16, 2009 at 02:51 PM
Specularist
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p.1 #19 · Image Quality - A850 or D700


The A900/A850, D700 and 5D Mark II together prove that digital SLRs are still in their infancy. These cameras each have serious drawbacks in addition to their remarkable capabilities.

The A900 has worse high-ISO performance than the best crop-sensor cameras, lacks Live View, inherited the proprietary Minolta flash shoe, can't record to both memory cards simultaneously, and doesn't have much in the way of in-production lens selection (though there are a few great ones).

On the plus side, it has superior overall craftsmanship, a far better viewfinder than the others, it surely looks prettier on the shelf, and more importantly: it has the best outright image quality (at low ISO). It offers superb resolution and colour, and it probably does have the largest usable dynamic range of the trio at base ISO, though the D700 would push it very close (and significantly lower noise in the mid-tones). Whether Sony will expand and support the Alpha system at the high end for another two, five, ten years is anyone's guess.

The D700 is a far more accomplished camera than the others in many ways. Its autofocus is in a different league, it can shoot at 8 fps, it has vastly shorter mirror black-out and shutter-lag times than the other two, it's designed with an attention to detail that Canon hasn't achieved in decades and that Sony won't achieve for years, and it's the best low-light camera on the market except for the new D3S.

But these advantages are tied to a sensor and antialiasing filter that result in vaguely soft 12-megapixel images: unacceptable to many in late 2009, if only because other cameras do so much better. Read noise is too high too, resulting in lack-lustre low-ISO dynamic range compared to the high-ISO performance. The little built-in flash compromises the top-half, and worse, it's just ridiculous. The viewfinder is the worst of the lot, with 95% coverage and no official options for a decent focusing screen. The camera is limited to 5 fps without the grip, for no obvious reason other than selling overpriced grips. The D700 is also the most over-complicated way in history to select an f-stop and shutter speed (the manual has 450 pages and would need more).

The 5D Mark II has the shapeless, androgynous design—if it can be called design—of all the big EOS cameras (its slouched shoulders one of many sins Luigi Colani has committed against the world). Inside are more features than you can shake a stick at, most of them half-baked. It shoots bad video, has a crap shutter, uses yesteryear's autofocus, and offers a selection of ISO speeds from 100 to far-too-high, none of them class-leading but all of them tolerable enough.

This camera wins praise for detail retention, but only by using a weak antialiasing filter that encourages false colour at the drop of a hat. The colour filter array isn't very colourful. The build and construction are fussy and obviously of a lower standard than the D700 or A900; but no-one cares about that these days. There are more EOS lenses than anyone could ever want, most of them also pretty crap. Some of them though, are better than any comparable lenses by anyone, bar none. But its biggest flaw is inexcusable: it suffers from worse shadow banding than any camera in recent memory. Any old DSLR has better usable dynamic range at base ISO.

If the A900 is a low-ISO tripod expert and the D700 an action camera, the 5D Mark II is a Jack of all trades and master of none. Its perfect blend of mediocrity appeals to me not at all (in case you didn't notice ).

To add insult to injury, all three of these cameras are heavier and much larger than they should be. Even the Sony, which is the best built of the three, should be better built for the price. And the price is very high for cameras with such flaws.

As someone above said, pick your poison, because none of these cameras are anywhere near perfect. I suppose that's the result of just three Japanese companies "competing" against each other.



Nov 16, 2009 at 02:58 PM
Steve Spencer
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p.1 #20 · Image Quality - A850 or D700


How many and which lenses he has should matter. Changing to Sony or Nikon with alt glass will probably mean converting lenses with a Leitax type solution. Can his lenses be modified this way? How many will he need to modify? If he has 20 lenses that he would need to modify, it would cost almost as much as the camera to modify his lenses. If he has 2 lenses, then the story is very different. So a list of the lenses the OP plans to use would help in offering advice.


Nov 16, 2009 at 03:02 PM
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