This topic is in the 2009 archive. You can read it and like its posts here. It is read only.
Archive 200914-24/17TS/21ZE/24TS in a church
p.2 #114-24/17TS/21ZE/24TS in a church
Great comparison shots, and beautiful church! Looking at the crops, they all seem pretty sharp to me but, the 14-24 seems to have lower contrast or color saturation than the others, am I the only one that see's this? The shifted TS-E 17 shot is awesome!
Nov 13, 2009 at 12:50 AM
p.2 #214-24/17TS/21ZE/24TS in a church
It is hard to draw firm conclusions from this series IMHO, interesting though it is, because of the differences in focal legths, tripod position, and maybe other factors. For example, the Zeiss seems to be the one that least makes the side portraits into back blotches. There are also differences on the colour of the blue drapes around the altar in the crops, except that it cannot be seen with the 24 TS/E. Which is good? Bad? I dunno.
My guess is (1) this is a lovely church, and (2) Boris knows his photography and was trying to get the most out of each lens, rather than compare them in a scientific but totally sterile and uninteresting way.
Thanks for the lovely pics.
My guess is (1) this is a lovely church, and (2) Boris knows his photography and was trying to get the most out of each lens, rather than compare them in a scientific but totally sterile and uninteresting way.
Thanks for the lovely pics.
Nov 13, 2009 at 01:08 AM
p.2 #314-24/17TS/21ZE/24TS in a church
Great shots. The 17 TS-E is impressive. Your image shows exactly what I like so much about this lens. It allows you to retake shots in a different manner that sets you apart from any other lens user. You could have shifted down and added more of the floor as well of course. Or combine even more different "shifts" by rotating.
What a lens line-up you have.
I wonder how well an image would be with the 14-24 @14mm if you would have stitched two images. One level and once tilted upwards?
What a lens line-up you have.
I wonder how well an image would be with the 14-24 @14mm if you would have stitched two images. One level and once tilted upwards?
Nov 13, 2009 at 02:14 AM
p.2 #414-24/17TS/21ZE/24TS in a church
Great photos. As expected very little to tell apart from one to the other. Don't you get a headache by looking at your bag and wondering which lens to use? I have the 24TSE and the 35L and I still always have to wonder which one to take out. 
Nov 13, 2009 at 10:35 AM
p.2 #514-24/17TS/21ZE/24TS in a church
You could sell one of the lenses and get some gelled flashes and triggers to illuminate the interior and match color temp to whatever is coming through the windows. That will help you avoid the yellow/blue casts.
Another option would be to allow the windows to get blown out so the church itself would get a proper exposure.
Another option would be to allow the windows to get blown out so the church itself would get a proper exposure.
Nov 13, 2009 at 12:23 PM
p.2 #614-24/17TS/21ZE/24TS in a church
philber wrote:
Boris knows his photography and was trying to get the most out of each lens, rather than compare them in a scientific but totally sterile and uninteresting way.
Thanks for the lovely pics.
I also did some tests in a "totally sterile and uninteresting way" ;-)
You can find them here:
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/787618/0?keyword=14-24,vs.#7240645
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/808843/0?keyword=14-24,vs.#7472281
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/830416/0?keyword=14-24,vs.#7715684
Boris
Boris knows his photography and was trying to get the most out of each lens, rather than compare them in a scientific but totally sterile and uninteresting way.
Thanks for the lovely pics.
I also did some tests in a "totally sterile and uninteresting way" ;-)
You can find them here:
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/787618/0?keyword=14-24,vs.#7240645
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/808843/0?keyword=14-24,vs.#7472281
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/830416/0?keyword=14-24,vs.#7715684
Boris
Nov 13, 2009 at 12:49 PM
p.2 #714-24/17TS/21ZE/24TS in a church
dimitris77 wrote:
Don't you get a headache by looking at your bag and wondering which lens to use? I have the 24TSE and the 35L and I still always have to wonder which one to take out.
Since the church is only 10 minutes away from were i live and everything is pretty static (even the light on this overcast day), it's no problem to carry and use all these lenses.
But you are right, when I travel to foreign countries I will probably leave some of these lenses at home (most likely the 17mm).
By the way I have only two other lenses. I really love wide angles at the moment.
Boris
Don't you get a headache by looking at your bag and wondering which lens to use? I have the 24TSE and the 35L and I still always have to wonder which one to take out.
Since the church is only 10 minutes away from were i live and everything is pretty static (even the light on this overcast day), it's no problem to carry and use all these lenses.
But you are right, when I travel to foreign countries I will probably leave some of these lenses at home (most likely the 17mm).
By the way I have only two other lenses. I really love wide angles at the moment.
Boris
Nov 13, 2009 at 12:58 PM
p.2 #814-24/17TS/21ZE/24TS in a church
Sam N wrote:
You could sell one of the lenses and get some gelled flashes and triggers to illuminate the interior and match color temp to whatever is coming through the windows. That will help you avoid the yellow/blue casts.
Another option would be to allow the windows to get blown out so the church itself would get a proper exposure.
I don't like flashes and about 90% of my pictures are landscapes, were flashes are no option. But here is another picture of this church for you with blown out highlights and a different (better?) color balance.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2583/4100598707_71d598ec96_o.jpg
Best regards,
Boris
You could sell one of the lenses and get some gelled flashes and triggers to illuminate the interior and match color temp to whatever is coming through the windows. That will help you avoid the yellow/blue casts.
Another option would be to allow the windows to get blown out so the church itself would get a proper exposure.
I don't like flashes and about 90% of my pictures are landscapes, were flashes are no option. But here is another picture of this church for you with blown out highlights and a different (better?) color balance.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2583/4100598707_71d598ec96_o.jpg
Best regards,
Boris
Nov 13, 2009 at 01:06 PM
p.2 #914-24/17TS/21ZE/24TS in a church
I like this shot better. The grandeur of the church is more apparent in this shot versus your originasl. 
Nov 13, 2009 at 02:15 PM
p.2 #1014-24/17TS/21ZE/24TS in a church
Avi B wrote:
I like this shot better. The grandeur of the church is more apparent in this shot versus your originasl.
+1. I agree. Much better perspective.
I like this shot better. The grandeur of the church is more apparent in this shot versus your originasl.
+1. I agree. Much better perspective.
Nov 13, 2009 at 02:21 PM
p.2 #1114-24/17TS/21ZE/24TS in a church
The high contrast situation at the church windows is a good possibility to judge the CA of these lenses. You have to keep in mind, that this is really a worst case situation regarding CA (high contrast, blown out highlights, maximum shift and close to the edge). In normal situations CA is not a problem with these lenses.
Here are the 100% crops:
14-24mm (@14mm, f/11):
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2552/4101559356_27575956c2_o.jpg
17mm TSE (f/11, maximum shift):
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2495/4101558176_1ac932438f_o.jpg
21mm ZE (f/11):
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2733/4100803453_7f75cacb4c_o.jpg
24mm TSE II (f/11, maximum shift):
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2599/4101560034_b08e75c187_o.jpg
Best regards,
Boris
Here are the 100% crops:
14-24mm (@14mm, f/11):
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2552/4101559356_27575956c2_o.jpg
17mm TSE (f/11, maximum shift):
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2495/4101558176_1ac932438f_o.jpg
21mm ZE (f/11):
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2733/4100803453_7f75cacb4c_o.jpg
24mm TSE II (f/11, maximum shift):
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2599/4101560034_b08e75c187_o.jpg
Best regards,
Boris
Nov 13, 2009 at 02:52 PM
p.2 #1214-24/17TS/21ZE/24TS in a church
Boris, this latest pic of the church is just great! And thanks for all the work you are putting in.
Nov 13, 2009 at 04:55 PM
p.2 #1314-24/17TS/21ZE/24TS in a church
Wow...I din't realise how badly the 14-24mm suffers from CA in extream situations.
Those remind me of the TS-e 24mm (MK I) for CA. It also shows hos amazing the TS-e 24IIL copes with CA...it's quite astonishingly good!
I had a go of one about 3 weeks ago and the Canon Pro-photo show in London. I pointed it at the windows and was shocked that there was no CA...a bit of LoCA...but no CA at all.
Those remind me of the TS-e 24mm (MK I) for CA. It also shows hos amazing the TS-e 24IIL copes with CA...it's quite astonishingly good!
I had a go of one about 3 weeks ago and the Canon Pro-photo show in London. I pointed it at the windows and was shocked that there was no CA...a bit of LoCA...but no CA at all.
Nov 14, 2009 at 11:27 AM
p.2 #1414-24/17TS/21ZE/24TS in a church
impressive, all of them, even the Nikon zoom
Nov 14, 2009 at 01:31 PM
p.2 #1514-24/17TS/21ZE/24TS in a church
Boris, I was waiting for you in the confessionary to come and confess your "lens lust"... but you never came.
Did you at least take a minute to Thank our God for all your nice toys?
Bless you son.
I am green with envy!!
Did you at least take a minute to Thank our God for all your nice toys?
Bless you son.
I am green with envy!!
Nov 15, 2009 at 12:28 AM
p.2 #1614-24/17TS/21ZE/24TS in a church
Here are some more pictures of this church:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2561/4105644380_a695abc5b6_o.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2691/4104876883_ac799452d3_o.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2469/4104877991_b0b951be3a_o.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2653/4105647124_96d2bde048_o.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/4104879733_5247c05e7d_o.jpg
Regards,
Boris
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2561/4105644380_a695abc5b6_o.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2691/4104876883_ac799452d3_o.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2469/4104877991_b0b951be3a_o.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2653/4105647124_96d2bde048_o.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/4104879733_5247c05e7d_o.jpg
Regards,
Boris
Nov 15, 2009 at 05:29 AM
p.2 #1714-24/17TS/21ZE/24TS in a church
Did you use photomatix or any other HDR software to process these images? Just curious coz they have that HDR-ish look to them.
Nov 15, 2009 at 06:25 AM
p.2 #1814-24/17TS/21ZE/24TS in a church
n0b0 wrote:
Did you use photomatix or any other HDR software to process these images? Just curious coz they have that HDR-ish look to them.
The first 4 pictures were processed with photomatix (3 exposures with +-2), the last 6 pictures only with lightroom (single exposure).
Boris
Did you use photomatix or any other HDR software to process these images? Just curious coz they have that HDR-ish look to them.
The first 4 pictures were processed with photomatix (3 exposures with +-2), the last 6 pictures only with lightroom (single exposure).
Boris
Nov 15, 2009 at 06:41 AM
p.2 #1914-24/17TS/21ZE/24TS in a church
mfoto wrote:
Nice series. Thanks for posting.
The 17 TSE does look impressive but the 21 ZE doesn't look bad either at $1000 less. The real question for me however is; How would my 16-35 2.8L Mark 1 do in this group. Probably not that bad at f/11.
As the examples in the OPs post clearly demonstrate, when stopped down (where these lenses are typically shot at for this type of work), the IQ differences are left for the gearheads to irrelevantly bicker over. However where the real differences lie are in other traits. For example the original 16-35 shows pretty bad barrel distortion. I shoot most of my architecture with my 24L TSE or 17-40 because of this. But after the distortion corrections are made, it would be nearly impossible to tell which lens took which photo, just like the examples above. Now let the irrelevant bickering continue!
Chris Miller
www.imagineimagery.com
Nice series. Thanks for posting.
The 17 TSE does look impressive but the 21 ZE doesn't look bad either at $1000 less. The real question for me however is; How would my 16-35 2.8L Mark 1 do in this group. Probably not that bad at f/11.
As the examples in the OPs post clearly demonstrate, when stopped down (where these lenses are typically shot at for this type of work), the IQ differences are left for the gearheads to irrelevantly bicker over. However where the real differences lie are in other traits. For example the original 16-35 shows pretty bad barrel distortion. I shoot most of my architecture with my 24L TSE or 17-40 because of this. But after the distortion corrections are made, it would be nearly impossible to tell which lens took which photo, just like the examples above. Now let the irrelevant bickering continue!
Chris Miller
www.imagineimagery.com
Nov 15, 2009 at 07:16 AM
p.2 #2014-24/17TS/21ZE/24TS in a church
Boris, your church looks like a very good example of a very tough location, with the highly lit windows and dark paintings in between, and delicate colours of the ceilings, and intricate altar. Congratulations.
Nov 15, 2009 at 07:37 AM