Up to now I have seen about 5 posts what what I would call very crisp images so it appears it can do it. So they are slowly coming in. None of these posts have stated OOF ratio. I could not hit this level with mine but I am hoping with my new one I can and I tried.
I've been AF micro adjusting my lens on the 7D tonight. I had done a half a dozen the other night and started doing a few more tonight. I have an extremely accurate tool for evaluating AF MA and I am seeing some strange behavior on my 70-200 f/4 IS. I am pretty tired and I don't want to say that there is a firmware bug in my 7D, but here is what I am seeing. It might help others zero in on problems they are seeing. When I AF MA my lenses, I will manually move the lens out of focus between each shot so I know the AF system refocused the shot. On my 70-200, if I move the focus below the right focus distance the lens works perfectly. But, if I move the focus above the correct focus distance then I am seeing focus instability (some shots are OK, but most are front focusing). In addition, I use a flash on all of my AF MA tests to get exposure consistency over time. When I get the front focus error, I am also getting over exposure. This is a clue that something is just going wrong in the camera. This is not normal during AF MA. Something is going wrong with both AF and exposure (at least when shooting with a flash). I tried several AF modes to see if there was a difference and did not seem to completely cure the problem (one shot AF --- spot, normal AF point and zone AF). My 7D is working correctly with other lenses (although I seem to be having some problem that needs investigation with my 16-35 II also). Anyway ... like I said I'm pretty tired ... if others are having AF problems with specific lenses and have an accurate AF test setup,you might test AF from both below and above the correct focus distance. See if you get different results moving to the correct AF distance from either above or below.
[I did go in and clean the contacts on the lens right after I noticed the problem, it did not help. All of my tests are done on tripod, cable shutter release, tethered to my PC, target is this, target is evenly lit allowing ISO100, 1/125, f/4.]
Again, I am tired. I am not saying that this is a firmware bug. It is something I noticed, haven't fully investigated and will do more work on tomorrow. Up until this problem showed up, I had gotten some terrific AF performance on my 17-55. 10-22. 135L and other lenses. Perhaps the 70-200 is failing in some way ... but, it has been one of my most consistent performing lenses.
rimmit wrote:
I also must state that my 7D is highly inconsistent in focusing. I have taken over 200 shots, and the 7D is just not consistent in it's focusing. Keep in mind I have been focusing on a stationary building and have used all the different modes. I've tried it with my 24-70mm f/2.8 and the 100mm f/2.8 macro and the 50mm 1.8. Wide open seems to give the most unreliable results with about 75% being razor sharp. Stopped down the problem almost seems to resolve. I think the camera has a hard time with large apertures for some unknown reason.
I wish this camera's AF would be more stable, as the high iso performance is spectacular and I love the video. I will still be keeping mine... I am just saddened that the AF does not work as advertised. My 20d and 50D are more consistent in that department.
In regards to "user error" which seems to be what everyone seems to be blaming these problems on. I do not think there is much "user error" involved in a non moving stationary object in bright daylight. There definitely seems to be a fair amount of 7D's with this problem sadly. Whether it's 2%,5%, or 10% I do not know.
All I have to say, is please do not acuse every person out there stating they have issues with a camera, and just call it "user error" Look at the 1DMKIII. That ended up definitely not being user error... ...Show more →
Hi!
I can understand you are unhappy with a keeper rate of 75% on a building.
You have done a lot of testing here, and your result is a summary of different lenses, and with different settings.
As for the AF modes, which mode did you find worked best? I would guess zone AF or expanded point are suitable for this target, not single point or spot.
It is also well documented both from Canon and users that One Shot AF is better for static subjects than AI Servo.
Did your keeper rate get better when using the most suitable AF setting?
I've noticed a number of examples of planes shot at fairly long range in another thread. Any time you increase the distance from camera to target, atmospheric variables come into increasing play.
For example, shooting down a long straightway at a race track with a long lens will nearly always produce poor results, due to heat thermals coming off the track. And the poor results have absolutely nothing to do with the resolving power of the lens or the focusing capabilities of the camera. Nada.
Another example is astrophotography. It doesn't matter how sharp your lens is, how well focused your target is (infinity), or how many megapixels your sensor can resolve. At long shooting distances, mother nature TRUMPS everything. Just ask any serious astrophotographer. That's the premise behind Hubble. Get the lens out of harms way (our atmosphere).
So, while I'm not discounting there may be a learning curve with the 7D AF, and that there may very well be some lemons out there due to QA issues, let's temper our analysis and try to remove as many external influences as possible.
I'd suggest testing the 7D AF with subject matter no more than 300 feet away (an end-zone to end-zone football distance). I believe that's where 98% or more of the real-world use cases will occur, and this will give us more repeatable results to compare.
A question to the birders and BIF photographers: What is your experience with typical shooting distances? At what point do you start to have to account for atmospherics interfering with the final sharpness of your images?
Ian - You got a lemon, plain and simple. If you still have the option get it swapped out by the place you bought it, do it. DO NOT send it back to Canon.
I had this problem when I bought my first DSLR. I got a 10D that was horribly soft. Everyone here told me it was just my technique or my processing of the images, or my particular lens, etc. I sent it to canon with test shots that showed just how terrible it was. They "adjusted" it and sent it back. It was exactly the same. I sent it back again and again received it back in exactly the same condition.
All the people here that had "good" 10D's jumping on me had me convinced that I just sucked as a photographer. Well a few years later I bought a 30D and the first shots that came out of the camera were like, "WOW". I had struggled for so long with such a lemon of a 10D, that when I got a good copy of a 30D I was astounded. I took some side by side shots between the 10D and the 30D (same lens, same everything) and it made it painfully obviously just how defective my 10D was.
It really makes me mad that I suffered with that 10D for as long as I did. It really did suck my passion for photography right out of me. And it makes me angy that Canon did nothing to resolve the issue. If it wasn't for my investment in glass I'd consider Nikon for my next body.
I'd really like to get a 5D mk II but the idea of spending that kind of cash with the possibility of getting another lemon that Canon won't fix makes me VERY nervous. So much so that I'd consider buying from a big box like Best Buy where I know I can walk in and exchange it if I'm not satisfied.
Andre Goli wrote:
Be careful, when I bought a 35L six months ago, I immediately tested it with my 5DII on fixed objects. I was at first disappointed because everything looked front focussed. Then, I changed it with the other lenses which have been always rasor sharp, and to my big surprise, there were blury as well !!!!!!!!! That surprised me... Strange.....Then I tried them again on my backup camera (5D), and then every lenses were sharp again, included the 35L.... Weird...... So I came back to my 5DII and checked out what was different in the options... My brother played with my 5DII just before, and changed the one shot focus option to the servo option, what I didn't know. I selected back the one shot focus option, and tataaaaaa, every lenses were sharp again on the 5DII, included my new 35L. I never shot servo, but if you want to test fixed subject, it is a very bad idea..... I am 99% conviced that is your case... I helped another fellow in Fred who had the same problem a while ago, he was pissed by a L lens he just bought, and got the same successful results after my explanations....... ...Show more →
I now know why I read these forums. I was having this exact problem and followed your example (Al Servo to One Shot on single point AF) and bingo So far, I've not had major problems with focus while tracking moving objects with Al Servo.
But how STUPID is it to hammer on a 7Ds A/F with the excuse "1Dmk3 had issues so the 7d must also"
btw I still didnt get an anaswer about the Micro-adjust..is this dependant on the users eyes? if so then what if their eyes are not so good? blame the camera?
digitalbug30d wrote:
But how STUPID is it to hammer on a 7Ds A/F with the excuse "1Dmk3 had issues so the 7d must also"
btw I still didnt get an anaswer about the Micro-adjust..is this dependant on the users eyes? if so then what if their eyes are not so good? blame the camera?
the 1d3 is not the first camera in the 1d line to have issues, the first run of 1d2's were a mess also, Canon did several firmware updates some worked some didnt,, then a few months later the MKIIN, Not many people are aware of that because then it was pretty much pros who had these bodies , not every Tom , Dick and Harry who had $4000.00 laying around to take BIF pictures to show thier friends like now.
As far as the MA and vision, in the back of the 7D manual there is a coupon for a free vision exam. because it can't be the camera
IanCale wrote:
the 1d3 is not the first camera in the 1d line to have issues, the first run of 1d2's were a mess also, Canon did several firmware updates some worked some didnt,, then a few months later the MKIIN, Not many people are aware of that because then it was pretty much pros who had these bodies , not every Tom , Dick and Harry who had $4000.00 laying around to take BIF pictures to show thier friends like now.
As far as the MA and vision, in the back of the 7D manual there is a coupon for a free vision exam. because it can't be the camera...Show more →
thats a pretty slick last comment on the micro-adjust and as I expected a non-answer..well it seems people in the nature forum here surely can get their 1dmk2ns and 1dmk3s to focus so...
well it seems people in the nature forum here surely can get their 1dmk2ns and 1dmk3s to focus so...
I never said the 1DmkIIn didnt focus , it was a very quick replacement for the 1DMKII which early on had issues , and as far as the 1D3 , yes there are ones that worked flawless, but for every one there were 2 bads ones. I personally know people who went through 3-4 bodies before they had a good one, and more then a few that got feed up and went right back to the mkIIn or went nikon. speaking of BIF , before the 1D3 came out, at least 90% of pro nature photographers shot canon. Now I'd say it's more like 50/50, they didnt switch because nikon was cheaper !!!, and your seeing a hell of alot more black lenses on the fields also and it aint Sigma
Well some switch back because they used to shoot Nikon, some switch cause Nikon is cheaper (eg: Great Britain), some switch cause Nikon gave them a good deal, some switch cause they become paranoid hearing about 1D3 fiasco, some switch cause their friends switch, some switch cause they caught Nikon bug thinking they'll get better results...some switch and come back ..but for sure...some switch to Nikon forum and can never get over it...going back to Canon forum and trolling
kewlcanon wrote:
Well some switch back because they used to shoot Nikon, some switch cause Nikon is cheaper (eg: Great Britain), some switch cause Nikon gave them a good deal, some switch cause they become paranoid hearing about 1D3 fiasco, some switch cause their friends switch, some switch cause they caught Nikon bug thinking they'll get better results...some switch and come back ..but for sure...some switch to Nikon forum and can never get over it...going back to Canon forum and trolling
IanCale wrote:
I never said the 1DmkIIn didnt focus , it was a very quick replacement for the 1DMKII which early on had issues , and as far as the 1D3 , yes there are ones that worked flawless, but for every one there were 2 bads ones. I personally know people who went through 3-4 bodies before they had a good one, and more then a few that got feed up and went right back to the mkIIn or went nikon. speaking of BIF , before the 1D3 came out, at least 90% of pro nature photographers shot canon. Now I'd say it's more like 50/50, they didnt switch because nikon was cheaper !!!, and your seeing a hell of alot more black lenses on the fields also and it aint Sigma...Show more →
Links to stats on what? That if you watched the Olympics or any major sporting event the last couple of years it's gotten noticeably more Nikon? I've noticed it. I didn't bother counting them. But it's fairly obvious that Nikon has made some progress getting market share recently. And the reason for that is, I'm sure is open for much heated debate. So we'll skip all that and I'll stick to the 7D issue. Some of them are apparently wonky, and though the fanboys may scream "troll" every times someone says Hey my Canon 7D isn't doing X it won't change the fact that a percentage of them are having some issues. I don't think that for some inexplicable reason last friday I became photographically incompetent when I got this new camera. And though it is different from some other bodies and may have a little learning curve doesn't mean I should get this many off photos on such a regular basis.
I love Canon's but I'm not wearing blinders to the fact that they can and have made some mistakes. What exactly is going on with the 7Ds may take a little bit of time to sort out but try not to be so arrogant to think just because yours is shooting perfect that anyone that says theirs is not is somehow defective as a shooter.
saturos wrote:
I love Canon's but I'm not wearing blinders to the fact that they can and have made some mistakes. What exactly is going on with the 7Ds may take a little bit of time to sort out but try not to be so arrogant to think just because yours is shooting perfect that anyone that says theirs is not is somehow defective as a shooter.
So why blow it out of proportion and make a thread "Major 7D focus issues" baiting the trolls to come in here just to bash Canon? Since others are shooting perfectly, it's obviously not a major 7D focus issue, it's a quality control issue. Yours is not working, fine, go back to the shop and get an exchange, how hard is it to do that without starting any drama?
n0b0 wrote:
So why blow it out of proportion and make a thread "Major 7D focus issues" baiting the trolls to come in here just to bash Canon? Since others are shooting perfectly, it's obviously not a major 7D focus issue, it's a quality control issue. Yours is not working, fine, go back to the shop and get an exchange, how hard is it to do that without starting any drama?
I cannot answer that since I didn't start this thread. However if you look at it in the simplest terms. Major 7D Focus issues. Major can mean it's a a major issue with the thread originators 7D. Shooting 500 shots testing it and it's coming back complete crap is Major focusing problems. You seem to think if someone says it' Major it means major for the Canon line of 7Ds. And just because some are shooting perfectly doesn't mean that for those of us that got lemons shouldn't feel this is a major issue just because yours is fine. Pointing out what is happening so that others may see that they are not alone in the issues area is hardly creating drama. So far on the threads I haven't noticed as many Canon bashers trolling as I've seen arrogant Canon fanboys in full on defensive mode. I think the term Troll is being thrown around when it doesn't really apply. Just because someone says something you don't like or disagree with doesn't make them a troll.
Then again when you read Major 7D Focus Issue" as the thread title did you feel compelled to jump on in the discussion as if you were being baited to defend Canon's sterling reputation? Wouldn't that be by your definition "trolling"?
Quality Control issues in a line of cameras is something I consider major btw. When it happens why should the person who discovered it be silent and sneak back to the store for an exchange as if they did something wrong and they had better not rock the boat by speaking out in public about it. I want to know when people are having a problem with a camera I own or may want to own for one. Just as I like to read the threads that show the good things about that camera.
I jumped in because I feel like it. Sometime I simply ignore threads like this, other times I feel compelled to speak my mind. This time it's the latter.
Anyway, now you're just reaching mate. When a thread says "Major 7D focusing issues" that means ALL 7D bodies have that issue. Well, since we know that not all 7D have that issue, the title is false and misleading. If the OP wanted to point out what is happening, he should've said "MY 7D is having major focusing issues" in the title. He's not in any position to make an assumption about other people's 7D.
I never said people shouldn't speak out in public but don't just talk about it, do something. Get a refund, get an exchange, write a letter to Canon or to Federal Trade Commision, organise a class action lawsuit if you feel that strongly about it. Not like those people who keep b*tching about Canon, how their products are crap but still keep shooting with Canon gear. You know how pathetic that is? Talk is cheap my friend.
As been said before, Quality Control issue is common with any mass produced items. I noticed another one of the more vocal whinger in this thread also works for Mercedes as quality engineer. I wonder what he has to say about Mercedes cars being rated as some of the least reliable cars a few years back. You should ask him, whatever answer he gives, it should apply to Canon as well.
Isn't time to end this thread ? - I just received my copy of 7D yesterday and I must admit, this is the best camera I have ever seen from Canon yet, despite cropped sensor and not being a 1D body. It is simply genious in every aspects and works flawless!
Yes, there will always be a part of shipments that are flawed, you cant avoid that, but everyone i read about or meet has the same postive opinion about the 7D. Hell, even Nikon users sit quiet on the sideline this time
Have a nice weekend, mine will for sure, in the company of 7D
UCSB wrote:
I've been AF micro adjusting my lens on the 7D tonight. I had done a half a dozen the other night and started doing a few more tonight. I have an extremely accurate tool for evaluating AF MA and I am seeing some strange behavior on my 70-200 f/4 IS. I am pretty tired and I don't want to say that there is a firmware bug in my 7D, but here is what I am seeing. It might help others zero in on problems they are seeing. When I AF MA my lenses, I will manually move the lens out of focus between each shot so I know the AF system refocused the shot. On my 70-200, if I move the focus below the right focus distance the lens works perfectly. But, if I move the focus above the correct focus distance then I am seeing focus instability (some shots are OK, but most are front focusing). In addition, I use a flash on all of my AF MA tests to get exposure consistency over time. When I get the front focus error, I am also getting over exposure. This is a clue that something is just going wrong in the camera. This is not normal during AF MA. Something is going wrong with both AF and exposure (at least when shooting with a flash). I tried several AF modes to see if there was a difference and did not seem to completely cure the problem (one shot AF --- spot, normal AF point and zone AF). My 7D is working correctly with other lenses (although I seem to be having some problem that needs investigation with my 16-35 II also). Anyway ... like I said I'm pretty tired ... if others are having AF problems with specific lenses and have an accurate AF test setup,you might test AF from both below and above the correct focus distance. See if you get different results moving to the correct AF distance from either above or below.
[I did go in and clean the contacts on the lens right after I noticed the problem, it did not help. All of my tests are done on tripod, cable shutter release, tethered to my PC, target is this, target is evenly lit allowing ISO100, 1/125, f/4.]
Again, I am tired. I am not saying that this is a firmware bug. It is something I noticed, haven't fully investigated and will do more work on tomorrow. Up until this problem showed up, I had gotten some terrific AF performance on my 17-55. 10-22. 135L and other lenses. Perhaps the 70-200 is failing in some way ... but, it has been one of my most consistent performing lenses. ...Show more →
Retested and found the 7D was working correct and my 70-200 was working correctly, but my new 580EX II seems to have a problem. Anyway 7D OK.
saturos wrote:
I cannot answer that since I didn't start this thread. However if you look at it in the simplest terms. Major 7D Focus issues. Major can mean it's a a major issue with the thread originators 7D. Shooting 500 shots testing it and it's coming back complete crap is Major focusing problems. You seem to think if someone says it' Major it means major for the Canon line of 7Ds. And just because some are shooting perfectly doesn't mean that for those of us that got lemons shouldn't feel this is a major issue just because yours is fine. Pointing out what is happening so that others may see that they are not alone in the issues area is hardly creating drama. So far on the threads I haven't noticed as many Canon bashers trolling as I've seen arrogant Canon fanboys in full on defensive mode. I think the term Troll is being thrown around when it doesn't really apply. Just because someone says something you don't like or disagree with doesn't make them a troll.
Then again when you read Major 7D Focus Issue" as the thread title did you feel compelled to jump on in the discussion as if you were being baited to defend Canon's sterling reputation? Wouldn't that be by your definition "trolling"?
Quality Control issues in a line of cameras is something I consider major btw. When it happens why should the person who discovered it be silent and sneak back to the store for an exchange as if they did something wrong and they had better not rock the boat by speaking out in public about it. I want to know when people are having a problem with a camera I own or may want to own for one. Just as I like to read the threads that show the good things about that camera. ...Show more →
So far, I've not had major problems with focus while tracking moving objects with Al Servo.
