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Archive 2009 · Major 7D focus issues

  
 
Gerry Szarek
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p.10 #1 · Major 7D focus issues


Having read a good portion of this thread I have some advice. FIRST go to www.photo.net and search for canon AF test articles. Implement the testing procedure, HINT it must be done under "natural light" preferably bright sun vs open shade, second your targets should be black and white of reasonable size. SECOND make sure you are test in ONE-SHOT AF mode. Do block the eye side of the eye piece. Lastly use a tripod with either an electronic release OR use the self timer. After this testing and you determine your setup either works or doesn't I would test your lenses using a different body.

FWIW I had a Hexar RF that had issues using M lenses, it was easy to detect and it was easily fixed by Konica (now Sony).

Good luck.
Gerry



Oct 10, 2009 at 07:16 PM
Beni
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p.10 #2 · Major 7D focus issues


So far on the threads I haven't noticed as many Canon bashers trolling as I've seen arrogant Canon fanboys in full on defensive mode.

This forum in a nutshell. First I heard of the 1D mkIII problem was going into my pro store and seeing 3 lying about in boxes on the floor, given that at the time they were quite hard to get hold of I asked the manager what was up. He told me that PJ's/sports shooters were returning them on masse because of focus issues and this was just todays batch. But there are still people on this forum who deny that a problem ever existed even after numerous recalls and still blame the user and 'internet hype'. Half of them have never owned the camera...

I remember having various focus issues with my 5D's and certain lenses, when I asked here I was creamed. Sent back to Canon and hey presto everything works perfectly now and has done for years. No doubt it was just user error though right?

Friend just got a mkIII, we tried to do the MA using a chart, etc. Just didn't work, everything has to be lined up perfectly and all the angles have to be perfect, etc. So we said 'screw it we don't shoot charts for a living', We shot each of his lenses using my eye as a target with my head turned at an angle, zeroed in the lenses like that using a real world example and they are all focusing 100% perfectly now for the people shooting (shoots bands for a living) he does! Real world ain't the internet mouths..



Oct 11, 2009 at 08:11 AM
PhotogDave
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p.10 #3 · Major 7D focus issues


Saturos and Beni>, you nailed it perfect!

n0b0>, the reason you jumped on this thread was because you are just like every other Canon fanboy out there. If you see a negative comment, you MUST go in a quickly try to smother it. How dare anyone say anything bad about YOUR precious brand.

As been said before, Quality Control issue is common with any mass produced items. I noticed another one of the more vocal whinger in this thread also works for Mercedes as quality engineer. I wonder what he has to say about Mercedes cars being rated as some of the least reliable cars a few years back. You should ask him, whatever answer he gives, it should apply to Canon as well.

Yes, that was me. I am vocal. I was raised in America, not Russia where you are behead for speaking out. So when something SUCKS, I say it. Canon has some good products. Example 300 f2.8L IS. One of the best glass in the world.
But they have more bad these days due to poor quality control....and some bad design.

I get so sick of everytime some one wants to say, "I have a problem" The Canon fanboys come out and attack. If I pay $4700 for a camera body, I WANT to blow it out of proportion. I WANT to be vocal. I WANT Canon and everyone else to hear it.
Whats it to "YOU" if "I" say its bad. I know why, because as a FAN you dont want people saying anything bad about your team. And its always from people that are not even good photographers. People who have no idea about any of this stuff other than what they READ. I see more people saying "Mines good, must be the photographer" that wouldnt know a sharp image if it slaped them in the face. The images they post are not sharp. To them they think they are sharp because they just came froma Rebel, or a P&S, so yes, the 7D is awesome compared to those. But some of "US" are actually photographers and use these tools for a living.

The reason the "PROS" started switching was because they were in danger of losing money to feed their families due to poor focused images. When the competition delivers sharper, clearer images than yours, they quit buying yours. So they switch to the ones that deliver....as did Nikon.
But here, the idiot, wanna be/hobbiest photographers want to tell a professional photographer that they dont know how to use the camera, read the manual and work on technique. GET LOST! People switch brands when they dont deliver. PROS buy and switch for better results for money. Hobbiest switch when they want to show off their equipment and impress their friends. WE and I include myself, read these forums to get a feel for what others are experiencing with new products before we buy. Or it tells us HOW big the problem is.
I assume when anyone post here that their 7D isnt focusing correctly....that its not and that their camera isnt working right.
And I determine by reading their post if it were the photog and not the camera. You can tell when they say, my camera isnt focusing right and they are using Auto focus point selection. Then you say, Try a diferent technique.

As for the Mercedes. Yes, it sucks too. The reason they suck is because they are poorly thought out, and when issues arise close to start of production, they wont fix it due to money. They send it to the customer.
Let me tell you. It was my job everyday to test every vehicle that came off line on my shift. I was the supervisor of a group that tested every vehicle before shipping. We did this during testing before they we released for start of production as well.
In early testing, they fix and addressed then, when it nears Start of Production, they stop. They start production level testing and when issues are found, they look at them. They then decide if they feel like the customer would ever notice it.
And if they did, would they return it. Then they look at the fall out rate. And many many many cases, I was told by the VP of Quality, "Let it go, if they make it to the dealer, let them fix it. Its cheaper for us to do it under warranty, than it is to fix it hear. This is when my attitude changed. I lost all pride in what I was doing. This is so wrong in so many way. "Let the customer deal with it?" Its a freeking $60,000 vehicle, and a Mercedes Benz

This is why they have the highest UNreliability. The amount of customers that MUST return them to the dealers. Instead of addressing the issue before they get it. And like Canon, a customer cant always easily sell it. Mercedes relys on customers that are willing to pay for the prestige of driving a Mercedes Benz. If they didnt have so many people out there that was SO interested in showing off their money, they'd be screwed.

Let me tell you, many people in that plant complain about the quality there. They want their built vehicles to be the best, but they cant because corporate Diamler says NO. And so, we get unhappy customers.




Oct 11, 2009 at 01:46 PM
garyvot
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p.10 #4 · Major 7D focus issues


PhotogDave, do you own a 7D?


Oct 11, 2009 at 02:25 PM
brainiac
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p.10 #5 · Major 7D focus issues


If its camera shake, nothing will appear sharp......jeez.
http://cyberphotographer.com/5D/banquetinghall.jpg



Oct 11, 2009 at 02:34 PM
brainiac
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p.10 #6 · Major 7D focus issues


michael49 wrote:
>I've experienced this as well.

>I'm a believer that Servo is meant for use with moving subjects only - I think too many people make the mistake of trying to use it for everything they shoot.


Another way of looking at that issue is that servo doesn't work, and the mistake is Canon's. Hate to sound fussy, but (1) these cameras and lenses cost a lot of money and (2) the instruction book doesn't say "servo doesn't work, just in case you were thinking of using it".



Oct 11, 2009 at 02:55 PM
keithreeder
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p.10 #7 · Major 7D focus issues


saturos wrote:
Major 7D Focus issues. Major can mean it's a a major issue with the thread originators 7D.


Then it's a major focus issue, not issues.





Oct 11, 2009 at 03:43 PM
keithreeder
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p.10 #8 · Major 7D focus issues


brainiac wrote:
Another way of looking at that issue is that servo doesn't work, and the mistake is Canon's. Hate to sound fussy, but (1) these cameras and lenses cost a lot of money and (2) the instruction book doesn't say "servo doesn't work, just in case you were thinking of using it".


I dunno, Richard - I literally only ever use AI Servo, and it works great on static subjects.



Oct 11, 2009 at 03:46 PM
musclepics
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p.10 #9 · Major 7D focus issues


kewlcanon wrote:
Well some switch back because they used to shoot Nikon, some switch cause Nikon is cheaper (eg: Great Britain), some switch cause Nikon gave them a good deal, some switch cause they become paranoid hearing about 1D3 fiasco, some switch cause their friends switch, some switch cause they caught Nikon bug thinking they'll get better results...some switch and come back ..but for sure...some switch to Nikon forum and can never get over it...going back to Canon forum and trolling


Also, Nikon HEAVILY persuades retailers/salesmen (salespeople?) to sell their products by offering very impressive spiffs/$$ to salespeople (at least in Canada), something that the other camera manufacturers don't do.

My friend got a job with one of the biggest retailers in the country, and even though he shoots Canon, and hates Nikon cameras (controls, performance, feel), he goes out of his way to sell Nikon, because he gets amazing kickbacks.People may come in with Canon, or even another brand in mind, but he always does his best to change their mind to Nikon because it's more $$$ in his pocket. While he would normally sell 80% Canon he says, he actually sells at least 80% Nikon just because of these spiffs.

Edited on Oct 11, 2009 at 05:18 PM · View previous versions



Oct 11, 2009 at 05:12 PM
musclepics
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p.10 #10 · Major 7D focus issues


Beni wrote:
Friend just got a mkIII, we tried to do the MA using a chart, etc. Just didn't work, everything has to be lined up perfectly and all the angles have to be perfect, etc. So we said 'screw it we don't shoot charts for a living', We shot each of his lenses using my eye as a target with my head turned at an angle, zeroed in the lenses like that using a real world example and they are all focusing 100% perfectly now for the people shooting (shoots bands for a living) he does! Real world ain't the internet
...Show more
I find the same thing... I don't find MA translates into real world performance. At best I have to use MA on real world objects (trees, etc) under similar conditions I would normally shoot.
After the latest recall, the camera has been flawless, needing no MA, and it just works (as is the case with the vast majority out there now... notice the lack of new MkIII focus problem threads. I think the 7D will be starting more new AF issue threads from now on).



Oct 11, 2009 at 05:17 PM
PhotogDave
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p.10 #11 · Major 7D focus issues


garyvot wrote:
PhotogDave, do you own a 7D?



Absolutely not. I own a 1D3. And no, you dont need to own a 7D to notice issues the others have. As a matter a fact, I just got a call from an old friend from Mercedes while I was typing this. He stated he just bought his new 7D, up from a 40D. He was complaining about his images being soft.
But....yes there is a but. What he was complaining about was she sharpest plain of focus wasnt as sharp as his 40D was. But....yes another but, he also stated that when viewed at 50% it was incredible.
So I said, what are you complaining about then. He called to compare my results with my 1D3....which were unanimous with his 40D results....real sharp at 100%. Thats said, he also stated when printed, the images were better than anything he had seen.
He was completely happy with his AF. Said it completely smoked his 40D, but he was just losing his mind over the fact that at 100%, they werent sharp. I said, well, the image is intended to be viewed at normal size(fit to screen) not 100%. So if the prints are great, and they generally look great at 50%, dont worry about it. I think this is an inherent look from this sensor, whether its on chip NR and or AA filter, defraction....whatever, they are not as sharp at 100% as past cameras.
Me, the only thing I would be concerned with at that point would be, "will my customers view them at 100% and assume the image is bad" Which is what Getty will do. Maybe they will learn as time goes by that the 7D images can be astounding and print awesome, just dont be concerned with 100% and everything will be fine.

But overall, he was very very happy with his copy. Only issue was 100% sharpness. Which in the end doesnt matter unless Getty will disect them. He said his 24-70 f2.8L used around the house was better than he's ever seen it.

When "Ian" stated what he was doing, I as a professional photographer know that his camera is malfunctioning. And when others state they did the same thing using same method, that means theirs is malfunctioning as well. And considering the sample sample rate of the 7D's out there, I'd say there isnt enough good yet to outweight the bad. You see, the math in my mind works something like this:

If there were 20 good ones on this forum and 5 bad ones, I'd say that was terrible.

Thats a 75% success rate.Even if only 3 were bad, thats still an 85% success rate. And as an engineer at Mercedes, our rate had to be above 90%. And I expect a little more out of Canon than that.

Aside form 100% sharpness, there are some good focusing copies out there. So this is a good sign. Maybe Canon will straighten this out quickly for those customers. Good for me, cause I am awaiting the 1D4, and hope it really does better.



Oct 11, 2009 at 05:35 PM
tuschinski
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p.10 #12 · Major 7D focus issues


PhotogDave wrote:
Yes, that was me. I am vocal. I was raised in America, not Russia where you are behead for speaking out. So when something SUCKS, I say it.


But actually you didn't exactly do that. You went on a rave how everything new from Canon sucks, while the evidence is still not clear. I'm hardly a fanboy, yet I find your posts condescending and annoying. You tend to identify your problem as something global... that people will dismiss that is quite logical. To be precise: you should be saying YOUR camera sucks. Note that is not denying something very wrong could be there with the 7D, but it's just not clear yet.

Be angry about the MKIII debacle, be angry about a faulty 7D, go to the shop and shout at the manager. But why do you have to be angry at happy users? Is a happy 7D user a threat to you? Why the need to convince people when it's useless? The others will be convinced by the reviews. If the cam sucks word will get out, it happened rightly so with the MkIII (which is a different market for sure).

And yeah that goes both ways, the other side isn't a hair better. Let's wait and see before we call the 7D the best thing since sliced bread. The MKIII case should make all of us rather cautious.

Oh and a warning from an ex-Nikon user... do not do a singsong about Nikon... if you are a proI certainly recommend to do some research. I as many others once jumped due to the dearth of decent mid range zooms and that is still a weak spot (if it exists it's also bloody expensive!). As they say; horses for courses, so perhaps Nik is it for you, but look before you leap.

To be complete;t here is some criticism about Nikon as a customer friendly company, as it has the same flaw as Canon, maybe even stronger: it's Japanese and those companies are a bit different in world outlook (been there). Communication is not so natural^^. Canon seems to be at least slightly better there and their service centre's in general know there stuff. Nikon isn't yet at that service level, especially not for their pro's. A pro looks a bit farther than the tool, he always should look at service as well.

Just to give a rather Nikon biased user who has concerns: Thom Hogan, ever heard of him? Read his page before you jump and spend a bucket of cash.



Oct 11, 2009 at 05:53 PM
garyvot
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p.10 #13 · Major 7D focus issues


PhotogDave wrote:
Absolutely not.


I was just checking... you sound so authoritative I thought you might have some actual experience with the camera.



Oct 11, 2009 at 06:16 PM
John McLean
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p.10 #14 · Major 7D focus issues


PhotogDave wrote:
Absolutely not. I own a 1D3. And no, you dont need to own a 7D to notice issues the others have. As a matter a fact, I just got a call from an old friend from Mercedes while I was typing this. He stated he just bought his new 7D, up from a 40D. He was complaining about his images being soft.
But....yes there is a but. What he was complaining about was she sharpest plain of focus wasnt as sharp as his 40D was. But....yes another but, he also stated that when viewed at 50% it was incredible.
So I
...Show more

You are really something... take a look at this site. There are now 24 pages of 7D images taken by everyday photographers and perhaps some pros also. Your mind math may be working is someway but not in sync with many of these very happy shooters using the 7D

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?p=8800251#post8800251




Oct 11, 2009 at 06:33 PM
PhotogDave
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p.10 #15 · Major 7D focus issues


Why does it annoy you when someone says something bad about a Canon product.

I'm not angry at happy 7D users. I am angry with 7D users that say, "Mine works fine so it must be you(not me, dont own one, just general) thats the problem."

Yours may be fine, but that doesnt mean everyone elses is good. The only reason I get angry is when 7D users say its the photographer just becasue they think their copy is good. Or even when people want to get ill at us for saying, "I have a problem etc" Everythings OK as long as you start threads like" I'm in love with x"
But the minute someone says anything negative, it all becomes hush hush and the attacks start, the work critics start. Its like being in a 3rd world country. "Wanna praise the leader, he smiles, say "you suck" and its off with your head.

Someone started a What DO you LIKE thread about the 5D2 and everything was fine.
But that was in response to the thread before it of What DONT you like about the 5D2. It wasnt long after people started complaining about the AF on the first thread, the defense started.

Wait, its all fun and games when everyone is being happy, but say something negative and people just GOT to chime in on Canons behalf and say, "Mine works fine for this and that" "Must be the user"

To be complete;t here is some criticism about Nikon as a customer friendly company, as it has the same flaw as Canon, maybe even stronger: it's Japanese and those companies are a bit different in world outlook (been there). Communication is not so natural^^. Canon seems to be at least slightly better there and their service centre's in general know there stuff. Nikon isn't yet at that service level, especially not for their pro's. A pro looks a bit farther than the tool, he always should look at service as well.

Just to give a rather Nikon biased user who has concerns:
...Show more

Will do. I know every brand has its faults. Service is a big deal. I have seen alot of users on this forum that use Nikon complain about having to stay on Nikon to get waranty stuff done. This is a big turnoff BTW.
Just seems Canons faults are the more serious or has the most impact on IQ. Seems like in the Nikon forums, they bitch about things like "Where is this in the menu" "Or how do I set this"



Oct 11, 2009 at 07:03 PM
PhotogDave
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p.10 #16 · Major 7D focus issues


I just told you my good friend said he was completely happy with his. I am not affraid to say there are good units.

Its not good enough that I just posted that his findings were excellent. What do you want me to do, retract the statement so that Canon doesnt have any bad marks. Jees.

John, just going off the sample rate here. I dont get on that site.....if I've ever.

Doesnt matter. The ratio isnt good here. Or are you telling me that only FM users have these issues or only the FM usrs have the bad units.



Oct 11, 2009 at 07:09 PM
mark fadely
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p.10 #17 · Major 7D focus issues


Dave - I have a MKIII and I went through the whole bad experience along with many others. I have used 3 different bodies and mine was finally fixed in May of this year. I feel for what you have been through, but the good news for me is that Canon did eventually fix the problem. I have been watching your rants over the 7D and with Canon in general. Everyone else is watching too, and it is just getting kind of old.

Believe me, I feel your pain from the past Canon experience, but you either have to let it go, or switch to Nikon or move on. You are not adding any value to FM at this point.

You only have 34 posts and they are the most negative useless posts I have seen on the board.



Oct 11, 2009 at 07:37 PM
PhotogDave
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p.10 #18 · Major 7D focus issues


Thats fine Mark. If you think they are useless, so what. I have just as much of a right to post negative posts as you do praising them. I also have a 1D3, and right now, its the best I have used, but it will change as it has in the past.

I need to retract my statement about the 7D from my friend. He sent me 5 images, and they are horrible. It doesnt matter how they are viewed, they are horrible. They are straight from the camera large jpeg.
Apprently, he doesnt know whats sharp either. I wish I could post these to show them, but I cant upload.

But these are aweful. They are OOF and even the one that is in focus, is just soft.



Oct 11, 2009 at 07:45 PM
keithreeder
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p.10 #19 · Major 7D focus issues


PhotogDave wrote:
I am angry with 7D users that say, "Mine works fine so it must be you (not me, don't own one, just general) that's the problem." "


And yet you feel entitled to generalise to your heart's content by slagging off the 7D without any first-hand experience of it, and attacking anyone who has the temerity to disagree with your pontifications, as fanboys?

What a hypocritical troll you are.

Look how terrible these 7D shots look: https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/822840/0#7627862

Kill file for you too.

Edited on Oct 11, 2009 at 08:00 PM · View previous versions



Oct 11, 2009 at 07:54 PM
John McLean
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p.10 #20 · Major 7D focus issues


PhotogDave wrote:
I need to retract my statement about the 7D from my friend. He sent me 5 images, and they are horrible. It doesnt matter how they are viewed, they are horrible. They are straight from the camera large jpeg.
Apprently, he doesnt know whats sharp either. I wish I could post these to show them, but I cant upload.

But these are aweful. They are OOF and even the one that is in focus, is just soft.


Unbelievable post....



Oct 11, 2009 at 07:56 PM
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