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Archive 2009Canon EOS 7D Master thread
p.8 #1Canon EOS 7D Master thread
Pixel Perfect wrote:
No, it's a good honest to god optical VF, but there's a lcd screen overlayed on the glass focus screen that is used to display the grid lines, AF points and spot meter circle. Normally the grid lines would have to etched on the glass focus screen for example and you had to change the focus screen.
Thanks mate. This camera is getting more and more interesting. That VF alone is enough reason for me to consider this camera. The MP-E should be easier to use with bigger and brighter VF.
Next interesting feature would be the built in flash commander thing. I'd be able to use that with the 580EX to light the background or just to try a more complex lighting setup.
No, it's a good honest to god optical VF, but there's a lcd screen overlayed on the glass focus screen that is used to display the grid lines, AF points and spot meter circle. Normally the grid lines would have to etched on the glass focus screen for example and you had to change the focus screen.
Thanks mate. This camera is getting more and more interesting. That VF alone is enough reason for me to consider this camera. The MP-E should be easier to use with bigger and brighter VF.
Next interesting feature would be the built in flash commander thing. I'd be able to use that with the 580EX to light the background or just to try a more complex lighting setup.
Sep 02, 2009 at 08:21 AM
brainiac
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p.8 #2Canon EOS 7D Master thread
willis wrote:
I don't see how technology can ever change diffraction limits...
It could be done in the time domain. If you assume that the sensor is way better than the lenses, which one day it could be, then the camera electronics could vary focus distance during exposure in order to extend d.o.f. at a wide aperture, and compile the sharpest data. The sensor might capture 5 frames in 1/100th of a second, for example. It would have to be done very quickly to ensure subject movement wasn't captured, but it's physically possible. Software would then compile an image by choosing the highest contrast pixels from the 5 frame set. It's sci-fi but doable.
I don't see how technology can ever change diffraction limits...
It could be done in the time domain. If you assume that the sensor is way better than the lenses, which one day it could be, then the camera electronics could vary focus distance during exposure in order to extend d.o.f. at a wide aperture, and compile the sharpest data. The sensor might capture 5 frames in 1/100th of a second, for example. It would have to be done very quickly to ensure subject movement wasn't captured, but it's physically possible. Software would then compile an image by choosing the highest contrast pixels from the 5 frame set. It's sci-fi but doable.
Sep 02, 2009 at 08:32 AM
p.8 #3Canon EOS 7D Master thread
Mr.Lindy wrote:
The early rumours had predicted a full frame 7D among other possibilities. I like the specs of 7D but refuse to drop $1699 on a pro spec crop body. Canon was foolish not to offer up 7D instead of 50D way back when. As you can see alot of coments concerning the new 7D at T.O.P.S. have most choosing Sony a850 24mp full frame with inbody image stabilization over another crop camera for just $300 more:
http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2009/09/canon-7d-1699.html
It is a compelling argument, crop D300s nikon, crop 7D canon or add a sony full frame for $200 to $300 more. I'll stick with...Show more →
Yeah, but I hear there are major noise issues with the Sony FF cameras ... like beginning at ISO 400. True? Not true?
- Steve
The early rumours had predicted a full frame 7D among other possibilities. I like the specs of 7D but refuse to drop $1699 on a pro spec crop body. Canon was foolish not to offer up 7D instead of 50D way back when. As you can see alot of coments concerning the new 7D at T.O.P.S. have most choosing Sony a850 24mp full frame with inbody image stabilization over another crop camera for just $300 more:
http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2009/09/canon-7d-1699.html
It is a compelling argument, crop D300s nikon, crop 7D canon or add a sony full frame for $200 to $300 more. I'll stick with...Show more →
Yeah, but I hear there are major noise issues with the Sony FF cameras ... like beginning at ISO 400. True? Not true?
- Steve
Sep 02, 2009 at 08:33 AM
p.8 #4Canon EOS 7D Master thread
John Power wrote:
I can't even gather enough energy to open the 7D threads...
But you had enough energy to start yet another new one? Hmmm... ;-)
I can't even gather enough energy to open the 7D threads...
But you had enough energy to start yet another new one? Hmmm... ;-)
Sep 02, 2009 at 08:37 AM
p.8 #5Canon EOS 7D Master thread
John Power wrote:
Oh wow. A new release. So what. Trade my 5D2 for a 7D? Will it shoot in complete darkness? I am already bored with the topic. Am I alone? A voice crying in the wilderness. A modern day Robison Crusoe.
I can't even gather enough energy to open the 7D threads...
And yet another thread about the 7D... and a pretty useless one too
Oh wow. A new release. So what. Trade my 5D2 for a 7D? Will it shoot in complete darkness? I am already bored with the topic. Am I alone? A voice crying in the wilderness. A modern day Robison Crusoe.
I can't even gather enough energy to open the 7D threads...
And yet another thread about the 7D... and a pretty useless one too
Sep 02, 2009 at 08:42 AM
p.8 #6Canon EOS 7D Master thread
Ariel Bravy wrote:
Let's copy over the 7D availability list.
B&H
Adorama
Amazon
Circuit City + 15% Cashback through Bing
TigerDirect + 15% Cashback through Bing + 4% Cashback with Bank of America card
Henry's (Canada)
Vistek (Canada)
Digitalwonderworld (Europe)
Robert's Imaging Call 1-800-726-5544 to preorder. Point of contact: Jody Grober
The Camera Store
Tom_W wrote:
You can pre-order at calumet as well:
http://www.calumetphoto.com/item/EC27100WL/?t=CM01&a=CM01
If I were you guys I wouldn't be tto quick to pre-order this thing, otherwise Canon is going to pull a MkIII on you and raise the price $500 between now and when it ships!
Let's copy over the 7D availability list.
B&H
Adorama
Amazon
Circuit City + 15% Cashback through Bing
TigerDirect + 15% Cashback through Bing + 4% Cashback with Bank of America card
Henry's (Canada)
Vistek (Canada)
Digitalwonderworld (Europe)
Robert's Imaging Call 1-800-726-5544 to preorder. Point of contact: Jody Grober
The Camera Store
Tom_W wrote:
You can pre-order at calumet as well:
http://www.calumetphoto.com/item/EC27100WL/?t=CM01&a=CM01
If I were you guys I wouldn't be tto quick to pre-order this thing, otherwise Canon is going to pull a MkIII on you and raise the price $500 between now and when it ships!
Sep 02, 2009 at 08:44 AM
p.8 #7Canon EOS 7D Master thread
If I hear mention of the 7d again, I'm going to kill a kitty!
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3649/3460207295_9779554ff2.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3649/3460207295_9779554ff2.jpg
Sep 02, 2009 at 08:47 AM
p.8 #8Canon EOS 7D Master thread
I looked at some ISO 1600 and 3200 captures from a 20D recently, and noted there was substantially lower chroma noise at 100% than what comes off the much newer 50D or 5D2 sensors.
Granted the 20D has less resolution and what noise there is will be more visible at any given magnificaiton, but it would still be nice if Canon's newer sensors could get that more under control.
Granted the 20D has less resolution and what noise there is will be more visible at any given magnificaiton, but it would still be nice if Canon's newer sensors could get that more under control.
Sep 02, 2009 at 08:49 AM
p.8 #9Canon EOS 7D Master thread
n0b0 wrote:
Can anyone explain that transmissive LCD VF? Does it mean we're actually looking at a video instead of "through the lens"?
No, as PP says, it's a real optical VF, but the markings on it are visible only when the LCD circuitry is powered up - switch 'em off, and it'll be just like looking through plain glass.
Can anyone explain that transmissive LCD VF? Does it mean we're actually looking at a video instead of "through the lens"?
No, as PP says, it's a real optical VF, but the markings on it are visible only when the LCD circuitry is powered up - switch 'em off, and it'll be just like looking through plain glass.
Sep 02, 2009 at 08:51 AM
p.8 #10Canon EOS 7D Master thread
brainiac wrote:
It could be done in the time domain. If you assume that the sensor is way better than the lenses, which one day it could be, then the camera electronics could vary focus distance during exposure in order to extend d.o.f. at a wide aperture, and compile the sharpest data. The sensor might capture 5 frames in 1/100th of a second, for example. It would have to be done very quickly to ensure subject movement wasn't captured, but it's physically possible. Software would then compile an image by choosing the highest contrast pixels from the 5 frame set. It's sci-fi...Show more →
Brainiac,
Are you an engineer or physicist? There was a white paper about what you described above a few years ago. Do you have any idea of what quantum efficiencies are for CMOS based sensors in DSLRs? I can only find references to useless stuff like the Hubble.
willis wrote
I don't see how technology can ever change diffraction limits...Brainiac,
Are you an engineer or physicist? There was a white paper about what you described above a few years ago. Do you have any idea of what quantum efficiencies are for CMOS based sensors in DSLRs? I can only find references to useless stuff like the Hubble.
Sep 02, 2009 at 08:54 AM
brainiac
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p.8 #11Canon EOS 7D Master thread
keithreeder wrote:
No, as PP says, it's a real optical VF, but the markings on it are visible only when the LCD circuitry is powered up - switch 'em off, and it'll be just like looking through plain glass.
and as usual that plain glass will have greater d.o.f. than the sensor, so you won't be able to manually focus reliably and WYSI NOT WYG.
No, as PP says, it's a real optical VF, but the markings on it are visible only when the LCD circuitry is powered up - switch 'em off, and it'll be just like looking through plain glass.
and as usual that plain glass will have greater d.o.f. than the sensor, so you won't be able to manually focus reliably and WYSI NOT WYG.
Sep 02, 2009 at 08:55 AM
p.8 #12Canon EOS 7D Master thread
Happy to take your word for it, Richard - MF isn't really an issue for me.
Sep 02, 2009 at 09:01 AM
p.8 #13Canon EOS 7D Master thread
gdanmitchell wrote:
But you had enough energy to start yet another new one? Hmmm... ;-)
It took a Herculean effort to do so but it had to be done...
John Power wrote
I can't even gather enough energy to open the 7D threads...It took a Herculean effort to do so but it had to be done...
Sep 02, 2009 at 09:03 AM
p.8 #14Canon EOS 7D Master thread
No idea, I've never held or shot with a sony dslr. I don't like their new lens prices. I found it surprising its like a sony love fest in the comments section for the Canon 7D at TOPS. I guess the $300 more for a full frame seems compelling on the surface. But not compelling for me, my 2nd 5D "Classic" ran me $1750 last summer, brand new. I do that again, drop $50 more for a new, old 5D full frame over a 7D. Now if 7D were lets say $1299 to start, then its compelling for me to consider a 7D aps-c canon.
veroman wrote:
http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2009/09/canon-7d-1699.html
It is a compelling argument, crop D300s nikon, crop 7D canon or add a sony full frame for $200 to $300 more. I'll stick with my 5D. I like 12mp full frame files. No 7D for me.Yeah, but I hear there are major noise issues with the Sony FF cameras ... like beginning at ISO 400. True? Not true?
- Steve
veroman wrote:
Mr.Lindy wrote
The early rumours had predicted a full frame 7D among other possibilities. I like the specs of 7D but refuse to drop $1699 on a pro spec crop body. Canon was foolish not to offer up 7D instead of 50D way back when. As you can see alot of coments concerning the new 7D at T.O.P.S. have most choosing Sony a850 24mp full frame with inbody image stabilization over another crop camera for just $300 more:http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2009/09/canon-7d-1699.html
It is a compelling argument, crop D300s nikon, crop 7D canon or add a sony full frame for $200 to $300 more. I'll stick with my 5D. I like 12mp full frame files. No 7D for me.
- Steve
Sep 02, 2009 at 09:03 AM
p.8 #15Canon EOS 7D Master thread
hfillmore wrote:
EBHThe 50D, as you wrote, may well be the max resolution for that particular sensor. The 7D however, is a much different sensor by design, technology, and engineering, and may not be restricted by the old sensor's limitations.
Time wil tell.
EB-1 wrote
Am I the only one not very impressed? The 50D already shows the limits of noise and resolution on the small sensor. The 7D will have more pixels, and even if the noise level is the same, what good is the difference?EBH
Time wil tell.
Sep 02, 2009 at 09:06 AM
brainiac
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p.8 #16Canon EOS 7D Master thread
rsg_1 wrote:
Are you an engineer or physicist?
No, but I did study physics at university.
>There was a white paper about what you described above a few years ago.
It's probably not a new idea. I would not be where I am today if I had new ideas.
>Do you have any idea of what quantum efficiencies are for CMOS based sensors in DSLRs? I can only find references to useless stuff like the Hubble.
No idea. But sensors seem to be improving faster than CPUs
Are you an engineer or physicist?
No, but I did study physics at university.
>There was a white paper about what you described above a few years ago.
It's probably not a new idea. I would not be where I am today if I had new ideas.
>Do you have any idea of what quantum efficiencies are for CMOS based sensors in DSLRs? I can only find references to useless stuff like the Hubble.
No idea. But sensors seem to be improving faster than CPUs
Sep 02, 2009 at 09:06 AM
brainiac
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p.8 #17Canon EOS 7D Master thread
Matt Leitholt wrote:
If I hear mention of the 7d again, I'm going to kill a kitty!
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3649/3460207295_9779554ff2.jpg
Yuk!! 7D 7D 7D 7D 7D 7D 7D 7D 7D 7D 7D 7D .
7D.
7D.
7D.
7D.
7D.
7D.
7D.
7D.
7D.
7D.
7D.
7D.
7D.
If I hear mention of the 7d again, I'm going to kill a kitty!
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3649/3460207295_9779554ff2.jpg
Yuk!! 7D 7D 7D 7D 7D 7D 7D 7D 7D 7D 7D 7D .
7D.
7D.
7D.
7D.
7D.
7D.
7D.
7D.
7D.
7D.
7D.
7D.
7D.
Sep 02, 2009 at 09:09 AM
brainiac
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p.8 #18Canon EOS 7D Master thread
garyvot wrote:
I looked at some ISO 1600 and 3200 captures from a 20D recently, and noted there was substantially lower chroma noise at 100% than...
Stop right there. Did you check if the cameras you were comparing had the same numbers of pixels? Did you uprez the smaller files? Go back and start again.
I looked at some ISO 1600 and 3200 captures from a 20D recently, and noted there was substantially lower chroma noise at 100% than...
Stop right there. Did you check if the cameras you were comparing had the same numbers of pixels? Did you uprez the smaller files? Go back and start again.
Sep 02, 2009 at 09:11 AM
p.8 #19Canon EOS 7D Master thread
Does anyone know where the USB is located? I can't find on the pictures.
Sep 02, 2009 at 09:16 AM
p.8 #20Canon EOS 7D Master thread
brainiac wrote:
No, but I did study physics at university.
It's probably not a new idea. I would be where I am today if I had new ideas.
No idea. But sensors seem to be improving faster than CPUs
Methinks you'd better learn how to swim upstream faster as far as noise density versus sensor area--not many are going to get it.
On the other hand, quantum efficiencies will decrease as pixel pitch increases at some point simply due to shrouding from the metal interconnect lines. I haven't an idea at what density that will happen for DSLR-sized chips, but it's the reality in cell-phone sensors.
I was just surprised how quickly Canon dumped their prior masks and moved up to a new pixel pitch over re-using the 50D's sensor with better read-out electronics.
Clearly a bunch of the IQ benefits we are seeing here in this sensor are coming from the image processing train--hopefully these parts make it into lesser cameras soon.
rsg_1 wrote
Are you an engineer or physicist?Earlier quote
>There was a white paper about what you described above a few years ago.Earlier quote
>Do you have any idea of what quantum efficiencies are for CMOS based sensors in DSLRs? I can only find references to useless stuff like the Hubble.Methinks you'd better learn how to swim upstream faster as far as noise density versus sensor area--not many are going to get it.
On the other hand, quantum efficiencies will decrease as pixel pitch increases at some point simply due to shrouding from the metal interconnect lines. I haven't an idea at what density that will happen for DSLR-sized chips, but it's the reality in cell-phone sensors.
I was just surprised how quickly Canon dumped their prior masks and moved up to a new pixel pitch over re-using the 50D's sensor with better read-out electronics.
Clearly a bunch of the IQ benefits we are seeing here in this sensor are coming from the image processing train--hopefully these parts make it into lesser cameras soon.
Sep 02, 2009 at 09:17 AM