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Archive 2009Canon EOS 7D Master thread
p.16 #1Canon EOS 7D Master thread
PhotoMaximum wrote:
If there is more diffraction with APS bodies at stopped down apertures (f/16 etc) then that is an issue with the 7D when it comes to recording video. If you are shooting at 24p you will run out of f-stops which will require these apertures or strong ND filters. You also run the risk of sensor dirt showing up in video recored at these apertures as well...
It might if each frame were 18 megapixels. But even in 1080P, I don't think each frame is more than 1.5 MP or so. Just a rough guess - I am not familiar with the exact pixel dimensions of 1080P.
If there is more diffraction with APS bodies at stopped down apertures (f/16 etc) then that is an issue with the 7D when it comes to recording video. If you are shooting at 24p you will run out of f-stops which will require these apertures or strong ND filters. You also run the risk of sensor dirt showing up in video recored at these apertures as well...
It might if each frame were 18 megapixels. But even in 1080P, I don't think each frame is more than 1.5 MP or so. Just a rough guess - I am not familiar with the exact pixel dimensions of 1080P.
Sep 02, 2009 at 06:39 PM
p.16 #2Canon EOS 7D Master thread
Tom_W wrote:
It might if each frame were 18 megapixels. But even in 1080P, I don't think each frame is more than 1.5 MP or so. Just a rough guess - I am not familiar with the exact pixel dimensions of 1080P.
1920 x 1080
PhotoMaximum wrote
If there is more diffraction with APS bodies at stopped down apertures (f/16 etc) then that is an issue with the 7D when it comes to recording video. If you are shooting at 24p you will run out of f-stops which will require these apertures or strong ND filters. You also run the risk of sensor dirt showing up in video recored at these apertures as well...1920 x 1080
Sep 02, 2009 at 06:45 PM
p.16 #3Canon EOS 7D Master thread
RGS65 wrote:
A 5DII firmware upgrade was announced to update the 5DII according to CanonRumours today ;-)
While I'm not putting a lot of faith in the rumor, it would be nice to have 24P and 1280 X 720 available as options. It would also be nice if they could, by firmware, reduce the low-ISO read noise that some are noticing (albeit through rather stringent testing).
I'm not expecting anything, but if they're going to do the video thing, I hope that they do it before September 12 when I will be shooting a great deal of video.
A 5DII firmware upgrade was announced to update the 5DII according to CanonRumours today ;-)
While I'm not putting a lot of faith in the rumor, it would be nice to have 24P and 1280 X 720 available as options. It would also be nice if they could, by firmware, reduce the low-ISO read noise that some are noticing (albeit through rather stringent testing).
I'm not expecting anything, but if they're going to do the video thing, I hope that they do it before September 12 when I will be shooting a great deal of video.
Sep 02, 2009 at 06:46 PM
p.16 #4Canon EOS 7D Master thread
sav1977 wrote:
1920 x 1080
thanks! Happens to be close to the resolution of my monitor. 1920 X 1200.
So, I guess we're looking at roughly 2 mpx per frame.
1920 x 1080
thanks! Happens to be close to the resolution of my monitor. 1920 X 1200.
So, I guess we're looking at roughly 2 mpx per frame.
Sep 02, 2009 at 06:47 PM
p.16 #5Canon EOS 7D Master thread
cogitech wrote:
Yohan, you are basically right, but bringing DOF into it just confuses these poor fellas.
Heh, I can admit that I didn't know the stock focusing screen doesn't display DOF accurately with faster-than-f/2.8 lenses, but now I know... being called a poor fella is a small price for the knowledge I gained.
Thing is, I've MF the cheapo 50/1.8 with it and Canon has plenty of other fast primes that can MF. Surely they must've put that into consideration when designing the 7D VF.
I stand by my earlier observation though. Considering that none of you have even seen the actual 7D let alone use it, and since there's no confirmed reports about not being able to MF a fast prime with this body, I still reckon you whinge too much about a potentially non-existent problem.
Yohan, you are basically right, but bringing DOF into it just confuses these poor fellas.
Heh, I can admit that I didn't know the stock focusing screen doesn't display DOF accurately with faster-than-f/2.8 lenses, but now I know... being called a poor fella is a small price for the knowledge I gained.
Thing is, I've MF the cheapo 50/1.8 with it and Canon has plenty of other fast primes that can MF. Surely they must've put that into consideration when designing the 7D VF.
I stand by my earlier observation though. Considering that none of you have even seen the actual 7D let alone use it, and since there's no confirmed reports about not being able to MF a fast prime with this body, I still reckon you whinge too much about a potentially non-existent problem.
Sep 02, 2009 at 06:52 PM
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p.16 #6Canon EOS 7D Master thread
bluetsunami wrote:
Don't know why people are angry over the lamenting of a feature offered in lower tiered cameras. If anything, you shouldn't be happy about options being taken away, even if you've never utilized it. Why? Cause watch the 1DMKIV come with LCD Overlay and replaceable focus screens.
But this is the crux of it: Canon refuses to make the camera that we all really want, by throwing everything they've got at it, whereas Nikon decided to stop haemorrhaging users by actually making the best bodies they could. People like cogitech and I don't like big heavy bodies and we do think that accurate manual focus with f2 lenses is crucial, because let's face it, all AF systems are absolute crap. They can't even focus near the corners, and choosing a focus point is slow, and focus recompose kills the art of spontaneous photography. AF is OK if you are the kind of photographer who always puts his subject in the middle of the picture. Please don't show me your holiday snaps. Canon could have given the 5D2 a good AF system, and a faster frame rate for sraw, and better sealing, and built-in flash and kept the body small and light. It would have been Canon's version of the fabled D700x - call it what you will. A huge number of people want that camera and don't give a crap about electronic levelling aids. Canon always has to put a fly in the ointment, and unfortunately the 7D is no exception. My next EOS will probably be a 3D, as long as it has a Canon E*-S screen option.
Edited on Sep 02, 2009 at 07:00 PM · View previous versions
Don't know why people are angry over the lamenting of a feature offered in lower tiered cameras. If anything, you shouldn't be happy about options being taken away, even if you've never utilized it. Why? Cause watch the 1DMKIV come with LCD Overlay and replaceable focus screens.
But this is the crux of it: Canon refuses to make the camera that we all really want, by throwing everything they've got at it, whereas Nikon decided to stop haemorrhaging users by actually making the best bodies they could. People like cogitech and I don't like big heavy bodies and we do think that accurate manual focus with f2 lenses is crucial, because let's face it, all AF systems are absolute crap. They can't even focus near the corners, and choosing a focus point is slow, and focus recompose kills the art of spontaneous photography. AF is OK if you are the kind of photographer who always puts his subject in the middle of the picture. Please don't show me your holiday snaps. Canon could have given the 5D2 a good AF system, and a faster frame rate for sraw, and better sealing, and built-in flash and kept the body small and light. It would have been Canon's version of the fabled D700x - call it what you will. A huge number of people want that camera and don't give a crap about electronic levelling aids. Canon always has to put a fly in the ointment, and unfortunately the 7D is no exception. My next EOS will probably be a 3D, as long as it has a Canon E*-S screen option.
Edited on Sep 02, 2009 at 07:00 PM · View previous versions
Sep 02, 2009 at 06:54 PM
brainiac
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p.16 #7Canon EOS 7D Master thread
EB-1 wrote:
Clueless users demanding more pixels. Just great. :(
I am a cluful user and I demand more pixels. There is no pictorial advantage in fewer pixels. Get a clue. :)
Clueless users demanding more pixels. Just great. :(
I am a cluful user and I demand more pixels. There is no pictorial advantage in fewer pixels. Get a clue. :)
Sep 02, 2009 at 06:58 PM
p.16 #8Canon EOS 7D Master thread
brainiac wrote:
But this is the crux of it: Canon refuses to make the camera that we all really want, by throwing everything they've got at it, whereas Nikon decided to stop haemorrhaging users by actually making the best bodies they could. People like cogitech and I don't like big heavy bodies and we do think that accurate manual focus with f2 lenses is crucial, because let's face it, all AF systems are absolute crap. They can't even focus near the corners, and choosing a focus point is slow, and focus recompose kills the art of spontaneous photography. Canon could have given...Show more →
Personally I think Canon deliberately does this, otherwise we might end up getting a camera that we want, and not upgrading every year or two. Kind of like chasing a rainbow I'm afraid.
bluetsunami wrote
Don't know why people are angry over the lamenting of a feature offered in lower tiered cameras. If anything, you shouldn't be happy about options being taken away, even if you've never utilized it. Why? Cause watch the 1DMKIV come with LCD Overlay and replaceable focus screens.Personally I think Canon deliberately does this, otherwise we might end up getting a camera that we want, and not upgrading every year or two. Kind of like chasing a rainbow I'm afraid.
Sep 02, 2009 at 07:01 PM
p.16 #9Canon EOS 7D Master thread
brainiac wrote:
But this is the crux of it: Canon refuses to make the camera that we all really want, ...
I'm not sure what you mean by "...that we all really want" because as you should know, it's bloody impossible to please everyone. What you want in a camera doesn't necessarily mean it's what other people want as well, that's why custom made products cost a lot. In this case, you will have to find a camera with modular design like the Red camera.
But this is the crux of it: Canon refuses to make the camera that we all really want, ...
I'm not sure what you mean by "...that we all really want" because as you should know, it's bloody impossible to please everyone. What you want in a camera doesn't necessarily mean it's what other people want as well, that's why custom made products cost a lot. In this case, you will have to find a camera with modular design like the Red camera.
Sep 02, 2009 at 07:05 PM
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p.16 #10Canon EOS 7D Master thread
scott f wrote:
Personally I think Canon deliberately does this, otherwise we might end up getting a camera that we want, and not upgrading every year or two. Kind of like chasing a rainbow I'm afraid.
That's exactly it, and that's why people like Paul (cog) and myself bemoan yet another slightly but annoyingly incomplete offering.
I still believe EOS is the best all-round system, but it's a struggle, whether I'm wielding a 1Ds3 or a 5D2 or a 500D, because Canon will not make one complete affordable bleeding edge camera which doesn't weigh a tonne.
Personally I think Canon deliberately does this, otherwise we might end up getting a camera that we want, and not upgrading every year or two. Kind of like chasing a rainbow I'm afraid.
That's exactly it, and that's why people like Paul (cog) and myself bemoan yet another slightly but annoyingly incomplete offering.
I still believe EOS is the best all-round system, but it's a struggle, whether I'm wielding a 1Ds3 or a 5D2 or a 500D, because Canon will not make one complete affordable bleeding edge camera which doesn't weigh a tonne.
Sep 02, 2009 at 07:07 PM
p.16 #11Canon EOS 7D Master thread
garyvot wrote:
That's in there? For sure? Wow, now I'm getting interested!
Seriously, I agree with you. If you are an M + Av shooter, this is one of the more aggravating things about EOS ergonomics, and after owning 1-series cameras for years, I really missed this tweak when I migrated to the 5-series. I was really baffled why this didn't make it into the 5D2.
Canon's EU marketing message for the 7D is that its feature set is customer-driven ("You Designed It; We Built It"). This is a sign that that is more than just marketing speak.
Yep, if you look under custom IV dpreview's hands on review it is in there:
http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canoneos7d/page12.asp
timbop wrote
Honestly, one of the small things that I really like (since we seem to be able to drone on for pages about small things), is the ability to change the functionality of the main and quick control dials in manual. I am in Av and M 99.99% of the time, and I constantly change the wrong setting because of the dials having different behavior. Being able to keep it consistent is one thing I really like about my 1d2, and I hope they continue that flexibility into the fullframe version of the 7d. Seriously, I agree with you. If you are an M + Av shooter, this is one of the more aggravating things about EOS ergonomics, and after owning 1-series cameras for years, I really missed this tweak when I migrated to the 5-series. I was really baffled why this didn't make it into the 5D2.
Canon's EU marketing message for the 7D is that its feature set is customer-driven ("You Designed It; We Built It"). This is a sign that that is more than just marketing speak.
Yep, if you look under custom IV dpreview's hands on review it is in there:
http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canoneos7d/page12.asp
Sep 02, 2009 at 07:08 PM
brainiac
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p.16 #12Canon EOS 7D Master thread
n0b0 wrote:
I'm not sure what you mean by "...that we all really want" because as you should know, it's bloody impossible to please everyone. What you want in a camera doesn't necessarily mean it's what other people want as well, that's why custom made products cost a lot. In this case, you will have to find a camera with modular design like the Red camera.
Look at the D700. Now imagine it has the 5D2 sensor, 7D video features, built-in IS and an EOS mount. Canon really could have produced such a thing by now. Easily. That's what we all want. The shortfall looks deliberate. They could also do a tall-bodied version for people who have small penises ;-)
brainiac wrote
But this is the crux of it: Canon refuses to make the camera that we all really want, ...Look at the D700. Now imagine it has the 5D2 sensor, 7D video features, built-in IS and an EOS mount. Canon really could have produced such a thing by now. Easily. That's what we all want. The shortfall looks deliberate. They could also do a tall-bodied version for people who have small penises ;-)
Sep 02, 2009 at 07:09 PM
p.16 #13Canon EOS 7D Master thread
equetefue wrote:
1D2 or 7D in AF dept ?
Yeah, that's gonna be an interesting call. After having my 5d classic and even the 50D, the 1d2 has shown a few age spots. For one, the high ISO of the newer cameras is definitely preferable. For another, when shooting poorly lit receptions my 1d2 is definitely NOT as fast to lock focus as either the 5d (using CENTER POINT ONLY) or the 50d. It can still get it, but there is a noticeable delay.
The 1dm2 is still a dream to shoot otherwise, and does a better job on BIF, airshows, and running players. If the 7d can make it close, then I'm probably going to sell my 1d2.
1D2 or 7D in AF dept ?
Yeah, that's gonna be an interesting call. After having my 5d classic and even the 50D, the 1d2 has shown a few age spots. For one, the high ISO of the newer cameras is definitely preferable. For another, when shooting poorly lit receptions my 1d2 is definitely NOT as fast to lock focus as either the 5d (using CENTER POINT ONLY) or the 50d. It can still get it, but there is a noticeable delay.
The 1dm2 is still a dream to shoot otherwise, and does a better job on BIF, airshows, and running players. If the 7d can make it close, then I'm probably going to sell my 1d2.
Sep 02, 2009 at 07:16 PM
p.16 #14Canon EOS 7D Master thread
brainiac wrote:
I'm not sure what you mean by "...that we all really want" because as you should know, it's bloody impossible to please everyone. What you want in a camera doesn't necessarily mean it's what other people want as well, that's why custom made products cost a lot. In this case, you will have to find a camera with modular design like the Red camera.Look at the D700. Now imagine it has the 5D2 sensor, 7D video features, built-in IS and an EOS mount. Canon really could have produced such a thing by now. Easily. That's what we all want. The shortfall looks deliberate. They could also do a tall-bodied version for people who have small penises ;-)
I seriously doubt if Nikon wanted to put the whole kitchen sink in the d700, but they were so far behind they were almost forced to do it. Make no mistake that if Canon feels they HAVE to produce a 3d they will, but not happily and not without the bean counters and marketing guys saying so. Canon was caught off guard, and I believe it did take 2 years to develop the 7d. Presumably Canon also has the 3d in the works, pending how things go over the next year.
n0b0 wrote
brainiac wrote
But this is the crux of it: Canon refuses to make the camera that we all really want, ...I seriously doubt if Nikon wanted to put the whole kitchen sink in the d700, but they were so far behind they were almost forced to do it. Make no mistake that if Canon feels they HAVE to produce a 3d they will, but not happily and not without the bean counters and marketing guys saying so. Canon was caught off guard, and I believe it did take 2 years to develop the 7d. Presumably Canon also has the 3d in the works, pending how things go over the next year.
Sep 02, 2009 at 07:22 PM
p.16 #15Canon EOS 7D Master thread
brainiac wrote:
.....They could also do a tall-bodied version for people who have small penises ;-)
Some of us like short bodies. Er, I mean, some of them...
.....They could also do a tall-bodied version for people who have small penises ;-)
Some of us like short bodies. Er, I mean, some of them...
Sep 02, 2009 at 07:29 PM
p.16 #16Canon EOS 7D Master thread
brainiac wrote:
I'm not sure what you mean by "...that we all really want" because as you should know, it's bloody impossible to please everyone. What you want in a camera doesn't necessarily mean it's what other people want as well, that's why custom made products cost a lot. In this case, you will have to find a camera with modular design like the Red camera.Look at the D700. Now imagine it has the 5D2 sensor, 7D video features, built-in IS and an EOS mount. Canon really could have produced such a thing by now. Easily. That's what we all want. The shortfall looks deliberate. They could also do a tall-bodied version for people who have small penises ;-)
I would have to agree for the most part but I don't understand your last sentence. It would seem like a larger body would weigh more necessitating a monopod, which a shorty would not fulfill.
n0b0 wrote
brainiac wrote
But this is the crux of it: Canon refuses to make the camera that we all really want, ...I would have to agree for the most part but I don't understand your last sentence. It would seem like a larger body would weigh more necessitating a monopod, which a shorty would not fulfill.
Sep 02, 2009 at 07:31 PM
p.16 #17Canon EOS 7D Master thread
Even if Canon made the perfect camera with everthing everyone wants
people would complain about it in the forums
people would complain about it in the forums
Sep 02, 2009 at 07:31 PM
p.16 #18Canon EOS 7D Master thread
brainiac wrote:
That's exactly it, and that's why people like Paul (cog) and myself bemoan yet another slightly but annoyingly incomplete offering.
I still believe EOS is the best all-round system, but it's a struggle, whether I'm wielding a 1Ds3 or a 5D2 or a 500D, because Canon will not make one complete affordable bleeding edge camera which doesn't weigh a tonne.
Lift some weights. It is less aggravating
Seriously though you are vilifying Canon for not providing the features you want in a lighter weight body though I, and I think many others, like the balance of th 1D series over the xxD or 5D.
Gene
scott f wrote
Personally I think Canon deliberately does this, otherwise we might end up getting a camera that we want, and not upgrading every year or two. Kind of like chasing a rainbow I'm afraid.I still believe EOS is the best all-round system, but it's a struggle, whether I'm wielding a 1Ds3 or a 5D2 or a 500D, because Canon will not make one complete affordable bleeding edge camera which doesn't weigh a tonne.
Lift some weights. It is less aggravating
Seriously though you are vilifying Canon for not providing the features you want in a lighter weight body though I, and I think many others, like the balance of th 1D series over the xxD or 5D.
Gene
Sep 02, 2009 at 07:38 PM
p.16 #19Canon EOS 7D Master thread
I would imagine that the modern internal electronics of a dslr could be more sensitive to some seepage than a film body (even a pro one), such that the equivalent sealing from a physical standpoint doesn't really lead to the equivalent water resistance from an in the field standpoint.
Sep 02, 2009 at 07:43 PM
p.16 #20Canon EOS 7D Master thread
brainiac wrote:
But this is the crux of it: Canon refuses to make the camera that we all really want,
The problem is that we all want different things - some of which may well be mutually incompatible.
whereas Nikon decided to stop haemorrhaging users by actually making the best bodies they could.
They've not released the D700x, so that isn't really truth. Also, don't forget all of the Nikon shooters complaining about the high price of the D3x. That is what happen when everything including the kitchen sink is thrown in.
note: that I'll comment that Nikon also doesn't appear to have the data
bandwidth off of their sensor to handle full speed 14bit and/or high speed/high resolution video. Something to ponder. Canon has done it, so clearly Nikon/Sony COULD have done so if they were going to make the best cameras they possibly could.
People like cogitech and I don't like big heavy bodies and we do think that accurate manual focus with f2 lenses is crucial, because let's face it, all AF
I don't use MF all that much, but I also don't like heavy bodies - one reason why I prefer the crop form factor. The real issue is "how much are you willing to pay for a good MF body - and how much will other people be willing to pay for that same thing?"
Canon could have given the 5D2 a good AF system, and a faster frame rate for sraw, and better sealing, and built-in flash and kept the body small and light. It would have been Canon's version of the fabled D700x - call it what you will.
First for the weather sealing:
How much more expensive would it have been to develop, test, and retool the factories compared to re-using parts to the degree that they did? How many sales of the 5dmk2 would have been lost due to the higher price?
And, realize, I would prefer stronger weather sealing. I'm not sure how much more I'd pay for it.
The autofocus: perhaps canon could have used the 1d af system. We don't
know the ins and outs of the guts to know how compatible they really are. But, assuming that they were, the 1dmk3 AF system has not exactly been well received by the buying public. This would mean that canon would need to vet another system in the 5d chassis, likely a rather large undertaking -- and one which may well be in progress right now.
We also don't know what the original plans were for the 5dmk2, did canon release the "Plan B" camera to remain in the field against Nikon knowing
that they should have done better but couldn't release at their quality bar?
Again, something that we can only speculate about.
A huge number of people want that camera and don't give a crap about electronic levelling aids. Canon always has to put a fly in the ointment, and
Do you have numbers on that? I would love an electronic level. I'll bet that deep in the bowels of canon's marketing they *do* have numbers on each
and every feature that was considered for the 7d. Perhaps their
numbers are wrong, but I would be shocked if they didn't do their best to really study what went into the camera vs. the costs of so doing.
unfortunately the 7D is no exception. My next EOS will probably be a 3D, as long as it has a Canon E*-S screen option.
and if it doesn't?
consider : how many canon owners would forgo an upgrade to due to the lack of that feature in any new canon camera? I'd hazard that there really aren't all that many MF folks out there who shoot small format - if you are going to mf, you may want to seriously consider moving up to larger format photography.
for me, the new features of the 7d will likely be enough to win an upgrade sale.
But this is the crux of it: Canon refuses to make the camera that we all really want,
The problem is that we all want different things - some of which may well be mutually incompatible.
whereas Nikon decided to stop haemorrhaging users by actually making the best bodies they could.
They've not released the D700x, so that isn't really truth. Also, don't forget all of the Nikon shooters complaining about the high price of the D3x. That is what happen when everything including the kitchen sink is thrown in.
note: that I'll comment that Nikon also doesn't appear to have the data
bandwidth off of their sensor to handle full speed 14bit and/or high speed/high resolution video. Something to ponder. Canon has done it, so clearly Nikon/Sony COULD have done so if they were going to make the best cameras they possibly could.
People like cogitech and I don't like big heavy bodies and we do think that accurate manual focus with f2 lenses is crucial, because let's face it, all AF
I don't use MF all that much, but I also don't like heavy bodies - one reason why I prefer the crop form factor. The real issue is "how much are you willing to pay for a good MF body - and how much will other people be willing to pay for that same thing?"
Canon could have given the 5D2 a good AF system, and a faster frame rate for sraw, and better sealing, and built-in flash and kept the body small and light. It would have been Canon's version of the fabled D700x - call it what you will.
First for the weather sealing:
How much more expensive would it have been to develop, test, and retool the factories compared to re-using parts to the degree that they did? How many sales of the 5dmk2 would have been lost due to the higher price?
And, realize, I would prefer stronger weather sealing. I'm not sure how much more I'd pay for it.
The autofocus: perhaps canon could have used the 1d af system. We don't
know the ins and outs of the guts to know how compatible they really are. But, assuming that they were, the 1dmk3 AF system has not exactly been well received by the buying public. This would mean that canon would need to vet another system in the 5d chassis, likely a rather large undertaking -- and one which may well be in progress right now.
We also don't know what the original plans were for the 5dmk2, did canon release the "Plan B" camera to remain in the field against Nikon knowing
that they should have done better but couldn't release at their quality bar?
Again, something that we can only speculate about.
A huge number of people want that camera and don't give a crap about electronic levelling aids. Canon always has to put a fly in the ointment, and
Do you have numbers on that? I would love an electronic level. I'll bet that deep in the bowels of canon's marketing they *do* have numbers on each
and every feature that was considered for the 7d. Perhaps their
numbers are wrong, but I would be shocked if they didn't do their best to really study what went into the camera vs. the costs of so doing.
unfortunately the 7D is no exception. My next EOS will probably be a 3D, as long as it has a Canon E*-S screen option.
and if it doesn't?
consider : how many canon owners would forgo an upgrade to due to the lack of that feature in any new canon camera? I'd hazard that there really aren't all that many MF folks out there who shoot small format - if you are going to mf, you may want to seriously consider moving up to larger format photography.
for me, the new features of the 7d will likely be enough to win an upgrade sale.
Sep 02, 2009 at 07:56 PM