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Archive 2009Official 7D Thread
p.7 #1Official 7D Thread
AbramG wrote:
.... if the final spec images are good enough. I'm going to seriously consider one of these guys.
I think the 5D2 + 7D combo is going to be very popular amongst us FM'ers
+1
Nice that it uses the same battery. They go forever.
.... if the final spec images are good enough. I'm going to seriously consider one of these guys.
I think the 5D2 + 7D combo is going to be very popular amongst us FM'ers
+1
Nice that it uses the same battery. They go forever.
Sep 01, 2009 at 01:28 AM
p.7 #2Official 7D Thread
garyvot wrote:
Judging from the high ISO samples on RG's site and from his comments, image quality looks to be on par with the 50D (for better or worse), with a bit more resolution.
RG has been very negative towards Canon since 1D3 and his comments for the 7D regarding AI Servo and image quality are again lukewarm.
Edited on Sep 01, 2009 at 01:35 AM · View previous versions
Judging from the high ISO samples on RG's site and from his comments, image quality looks to be on par with the 50D (for better or worse), with a bit more resolution.
RG has been very negative towards Canon since 1D3 and his comments for the 7D regarding AI Servo and image quality are again lukewarm.
Edited on Sep 01, 2009 at 01:35 AM · View previous versions
Sep 01, 2009 at 01:32 AM
p.7 #3Official 7D Thread
M Vers wrote:
More specifically, the high ISO shots posted on DPR--one that stands out was a WRX (IIRC) coming head on, mid-air, on a dirt track.
That shot was from Canon, not DPReview.
Anyway, when it comes to sensor quality, I'll rather wait for DXOMark's analysis. Hopefully, Canon has fixed their chroma noise and low ISO dynamic range issues in this iteration.
More specifically, the high ISO shots posted on DPR--one that stands out was a WRX (IIRC) coming head on, mid-air, on a dirt track.
That shot was from Canon, not DPReview.
Anyway, when it comes to sensor quality, I'll rather wait for DXOMark's analysis. Hopefully, Canon has fixed their chroma noise and low ISO dynamic range issues in this iteration.
Sep 01, 2009 at 01:34 AM
p.7 #4Official 7D Thread
Amazing stuff. But WHY cant they design and AF system that covers more of the image? On RGs site you'll see that it is pretty much ad bad as before. As it is now it cripples what kind of compositions that is possible to do (with AF) which seriously affects which kinds of images that are actually taken.
Sep 01, 2009 at 01:44 AM
p.7 #5Official 7D Thread
thw2 wrote:
Anyway, when it comes to sensor quality, I'll rather wait for DXOMark's analysis. Hopefully, Canon has fixed their chroma noise and low ISO dynamic range issues in this iteration.
I think you should actually do your own assessment based on real samples. DXOMark's analysis may led you to think otherwise that the 5D2 sensor is better than the one of the Hasselblad H3DII 50.
Also remember that the pixel density of the 7D 18MP is the same as the micro4/3 sensors from the Oly E-P1 which does pretty well up to 1600 iso.
Anyway, when it comes to sensor quality, I'll rather wait for DXOMark's analysis. Hopefully, Canon has fixed their chroma noise and low ISO dynamic range issues in this iteration.
I think you should actually do your own assessment based on real samples. DXOMark's analysis may led you to think otherwise that the 5D2 sensor is better than the one of the Hasselblad H3DII 50.
Also remember that the pixel density of the 7D 18MP is the same as the micro4/3 sensors from the Oly E-P1 which does pretty well up to 1600 iso.
Sep 01, 2009 at 01:52 AM
p.7 #6Official 7D Thread
dhphoto wrote:
I've skimmed these posts and I don't think anyone has mentioned what I see as glaringly obvious:
If Canon struggled to keep the noise down in the 50D at 15 meg, how are they going to get superior IQ out of 18 meg in a tiny APS-C sensor?
Stuff the other features, it's image quality that's the bottom line for me, that's how I will judge the 7D. YMMV
David
Instead of hypothesizing, you can download samples for yourself at imaging-resource.com. They have a full suite up from ISO 100 to ISO 12800 at all noise reduction settings. ISO 3200 with NR off looks pretty good to me, better than the 50D even at pixel level maybe. Might just be over-exuberance, but that's what I'm seeing right now.
I've skimmed these posts and I don't think anyone has mentioned what I see as glaringly obvious:
If Canon struggled to keep the noise down in the 50D at 15 meg, how are they going to get superior IQ out of 18 meg in a tiny APS-C sensor?
Stuff the other features, it's image quality that's the bottom line for me, that's how I will judge the 7D. YMMV
David
Instead of hypothesizing, you can download samples for yourself at imaging-resource.com. They have a full suite up from ISO 100 to ISO 12800 at all noise reduction settings. ISO 3200 with NR off looks pretty good to me, better than the 50D even at pixel level maybe. Might just be over-exuberance, but that's what I'm seeing right now.
Sep 01, 2009 at 01:57 AM
p.7 #7Official 7D Thread
phew! this machine is wicked. all i ever need for action stuff ... ar least for a long while. 
Sep 01, 2009 at 02:00 AM
p.7 #8Official 7D Thread
Yohan Pamudji wrote:
If Canon struggled to keep the noise down in the 50D at 15 meg, how are they going to get superior IQ out of 18 meg in a tiny APS-C sensor?
Stuff the other features, it's image quality that's the bottom line for me, that's how I will judge the 7D. YMMV
DavidInstead of hypothesizing, you can download samples for yourself at imaging-resource.com. They have a full suite up from ISO 100 to ISO 12800 at all noise reduction settings. ISO 3200 with NR off looks pretty good to me, better than the 50D even at pixel level maybe. Might just be over-exuberance, but that's what I'm seeing right now.
Useful. Thanks
dhphoto wrote
I've skimmed these posts and I don't think anyone has mentioned what I see as glaringly obvious:If Canon struggled to keep the noise down in the 50D at 15 meg, how are they going to get superior IQ out of 18 meg in a tiny APS-C sensor?
Stuff the other features, it's image quality that's the bottom line for me, that's how I will judge the 7D. YMMV
David
Useful. Thanks
Sep 01, 2009 at 02:03 AM
p.7 #9Official 7D Thread
wow, i jsut did a flip test at ISO3200 at IR between 7D/5D2/40D/50D.
granted in cam jpgs are a dangerous thing to compared.... but....
Looking good for an APS-C (although the 40D seems a bit more saturated in some cases). Wow the 7D definitely looks better than the 50D at the pixel level even despite 20% boost.
At ISO 3200 the 5D2 most likely beats the 40D by around 1.6 stops or about 2 2/3rds stops for SNR at 18%. It looks like the 7D may well split the difference, not bad at all for APS-C! Of course the 5D2 does still look 2/3 better, which is considerable, so I can still feel good
.
But wow this is what people though the 50D would do for noise, this is the first real clear improvement in SNR for an APS_C by canon since the 20D! Or so it seems.
I have a really weird feeling it will actually beat the 5D2 for DR at ISO100-200 and maybe almost tie it at ISO400, if not SNR (still should be 2/3 stop behind at 18% gray) and maybe even beat it at ISO100 by a 1-2 stops.... but that is getting into a bit of speculation.
In that sense it is too bad they didnt get the banding cleaner on the 5D2, at least kept it at 1ds3/40D levels....
Anyway my guess (after normalization for MP):
it wins DR by 1-2 stops at ISO100
? but loses DR by 1 stop by ISO1600
it loses SNR at 18% at all ISO by 2/3 stops
and compared to 40D/50D (after norm):
it wins DR by 1.5-2.5 stops at ISO100? and wins by 0.5 stops at ISO1600
it wins SNR at 18% at all ISO by 2/3 stops
of course this is kinda rough estimating, particularly so with the DR, so we'll see....
It may actually deliver certain shots at ISO100 with better quality than the 5D2?
Definitely lose at ISO1600 and up compared to the 5D2 for sure, but not nearly as badly as the old APS-C from Canon did and, heresy, it might come darn close to the 5D at ISO1600 after normalization
Well 5D2 certainly remains the high ISO king, but the 7D looks to do very well for an APS-C!
and teh AF sounds pretty wild, all sorts of fast macro compensation and this and that
hopefully the cluster points are not too spread though.
granted in cam jpgs are a dangerous thing to compared.... but....
Looking good for an APS-C (although the 40D seems a bit more saturated in some cases). Wow the 7D definitely looks better than the 50D at the pixel level even despite 20% boost.
At ISO 3200 the 5D2 most likely beats the 40D by around 1.6 stops or about 2 2/3rds stops for SNR at 18%. It looks like the 7D may well split the difference, not bad at all for APS-C! Of course the 5D2 does still look 2/3 better, which is considerable, so I can still feel good
.But wow this is what people though the 50D would do for noise, this is the first real clear improvement in SNR for an APS_C by canon since the 20D! Or so it seems.
I have a really weird feeling it will actually beat the 5D2 for DR at ISO100-200 and maybe almost tie it at ISO400, if not SNR (still should be 2/3 stop behind at 18% gray) and maybe even beat it at ISO100 by a 1-2 stops.... but that is getting into a bit of speculation.
In that sense it is too bad they didnt get the banding cleaner on the 5D2, at least kept it at 1ds3/40D levels....
Anyway my guess (after normalization for MP):
it wins DR by 1-2 stops at ISO100
? but loses DR by 1 stop by ISO1600it loses SNR at 18% at all ISO by 2/3 stops
and compared to 40D/50D (after norm):
it wins DR by 1.5-2.5 stops at ISO100
? and wins by 0.5 stops at ISO1600it wins SNR at 18% at all ISO by 2/3 stops
of course this is kinda rough estimating, particularly so with the DR, so we'll see....
It may actually deliver certain shots at ISO100 with better quality than the 5D2?
Definitely lose at ISO1600 and up compared to the 5D2 for sure, but not nearly as badly as the old APS-C from Canon did and, heresy, it might come darn close to the 5D at ISO1600 after normalization
Well 5D2 certainly remains the high ISO king, but the 7D looks to do very well for an APS-C!
and teh AF sounds pretty wild, all sorts of fast macro compensation and this and that
hopefully the cluster points are not too spread though.
Sep 01, 2009 at 02:11 AM
p.7 #10Official 7D Thread
mbellot wrote:
Looks great, although 18MP in an APS-C sensor seems like they are really packing them in...
10-12MP with everything else the same would have been sweet, especially at the higher ISO levels.
I didn't see a price, but I don't see this replacing the 1DIII any time soon, for me at least.
look at the samples on IR, appears to be noticeably better than the 50D, even at 100% view!
Looks great, although 18MP in an APS-C sensor seems like they are really packing them in...
10-12MP with everything else the same would have been sweet, especially at the higher ISO levels.
I didn't see a price, but I don't see this replacing the 1DIII any time soon, for me at least.
look at the samples on IR, appears to be noticeably better than the 50D, even at 100% view!
Sep 01, 2009 at 02:13 AM
p.7 #11Official 7D Thread
thedigitalbean wrote:
VERY interesting...and equally as awesome.Yes- this was the one of the things I loved about Nikon CLS, and finally we can have that!Yup, this is great. Also we now have a 1.6x crop with pro AF and a 100mm macro lens with VR/IS All thats left is the 200-400, come on Canon... please.... pretty please...
even better it can do in-out macro compensation too!!
orangefirefish wrote
M Vers wrote
"New Flash and Wireless Flash Control. The 7D is the first Canon EOS to come with an Integrated Speedlite Transmitter. The system allows to control up to three groups of four flashes each. With 15mm the built-in flash features wider flash coverage than previous models. Its guide number is 12/39 (ISO 100, in meters/feet)."VERY interesting...and equally as awesome.
even better it can do in-out macro compensation too!!
Sep 01, 2009 at 02:19 AM
p.7 #12Official 7D Thread
Canon is smart. Understood why they don't put advance AF in the 5D2, and then share the same battery model with 7D.
Very difficult to stop myself to get a 7D and pair with my 5D2
Very difficult to stop myself to get a 7D and pair with my 5D2
Sep 01, 2009 at 02:22 AM
p.7 #13Official 7D Thread
Check this link for low light 5DmkII vs 7D comparisons. Looks pretty good.
http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-10042-10239
http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-10042-10239
Sep 01, 2009 at 02:23 AM
p.7 #14Official 7D Thread
mttran wrote:
If Canon struggled to keep the noise down in the 50D at 15 meg, how are they going to get superior IQ out of 18 meg in a tiny APS-C sensor?
Stuff the other features, it's image quality that's the bottom line for me, that's how I will judge the 7D. YMMV
DavidI buy if no noise in black frame test
My take on SNR:
The improvements in quantum efficiency, photosite layout and microlenses at least outhweigh the smaller pixel size, giving a SNR at pixel level at least equal to the 50D. For the overall image, this means better SNR.
My take on black frame noise:
The ISO 12800 samples are free of banding / pattern noise. ISO 12800 is pushed digitally, so it gives a hint of what to expect of camera introduced noise.
Compared to the 50D, there is a major improvement here.
dhphoto wrote
I've skimmed these posts and I don't think anyone has mentioned what I see as glaringly obvious:If Canon struggled to keep the noise down in the 50D at 15 meg, how are they going to get superior IQ out of 18 meg in a tiny APS-C sensor?
Stuff the other features, it's image quality that's the bottom line for me, that's how I will judge the 7D. YMMV
David
My take on SNR:
The improvements in quantum efficiency, photosite layout and microlenses at least outhweigh the smaller pixel size, giving a SNR at pixel level at least equal to the 50D. For the overall image, this means better SNR.
My take on black frame noise:
The ISO 12800 samples are free of banding / pattern noise. ISO 12800 is pushed digitally, so it gives a hint of what to expect of camera introduced noise.
Compared to the 50D, there is a major improvement here.
Sep 01, 2009 at 02:27 AM
p.7 #15Official 7D Thread
It would certainly seem a 5D mark3 or 3D will be next - with the upgraded focusing, level, weatherproofing, screen etc. Subtle yet tempting upgrades and a clear differentiation now, full frame quality and crop for speed, nature & sport
David
David
Sep 01, 2009 at 02:31 AM
p.7 #16Official 7D Thread
digitalbug30d wrote:
still trying hard to compare 1 series a/f 
trying to compare high Iso noise to a FF
Cmon people we are smarter than those on DPR? arnt we?
teh AF is fair comparison to 1 series
and SNR to FF is interesting, amazing it may have gotten half-way there
corndog wrote
There's a few absurd comments here already, let's relax a bit until we get some hands on reviews. Looks promising though. trying to compare high Iso noise to a FF
Cmon people we are smarter than those on DPR? arnt we?
teh AF is fair comparison to 1 series
and SNR to FF is interesting, amazing it may have gotten half-way there
Sep 01, 2009 at 02:34 AM
p.7 #17Official 7D Thread
EOS20 wrote:
The 7D Will be available in body only, and 3 kit configurations down here in Australia. The kits are:
EOS 7D "Platinum kit" which comes with the 15-85 IS lens.
EOS 7D "Super Kit" which comes with the 18-135 IS Lens
EOS 7D "Premium kit" which comes with the 18-200 IS Lens.
No prices yet.
hella lot nicer than the stupid lame 28-135 IS kit in the US!
The 7D Will be available in body only, and 3 kit configurations down here in Australia. The kits are:
EOS 7D "Platinum kit" which comes with the 15-85 IS lens.
EOS 7D "Super Kit" which comes with the 18-135 IS Lens
EOS 7D "Premium kit" which comes with the 18-200 IS Lens.
No prices yet.
hella lot nicer than the stupid lame 28-135 IS kit in the US!
Sep 01, 2009 at 02:34 AM
p.7 #18Official 7D Thread
alundeb wrote:
If Canon struggled to keep the noise down in the 50D at 15 meg, how are they going to get superior IQ out of 18 meg in a tiny APS-C sensor?
Stuff the other features, it's image quality that's the bottom line for me, that's how I will judge the 7D. YMMV
DavidI buy if no noise in black frame test My take on SNR:
The improvements in quantum efficiency, photosite layout and microlenses at least outhweigh the smaller pixel size, giving a SNR at pixel level at least equal to the 50D. For the overall image, this means better SNR.
My take on black frame noise:
The ISO 12800 samples are free of banding / pattern noise. ISO 12800 is pushed digitally, so it gives a hint of what to expect of camera introduced noise.
Compared to the 50D, there is a major improvement here.
The lack of banding means I can finally smile again. I loved the grain and resolution of the 50D but to be required to put all of my shots that were slightly underexposed or high iso through Nik Dfine was too time consuming.
THis is a life saver. I love the 7D!
mttran wrote
dhphoto wrote
I've skimmed these posts and I don't think anyone has mentioned what I see as glaringly obvious:If Canon struggled to keep the noise down in the 50D at 15 meg, how are they going to get superior IQ out of 18 meg in a tiny APS-C sensor?
Stuff the other features, it's image quality that's the bottom line for me, that's how I will judge the 7D. YMMV
David
The improvements in quantum efficiency, photosite layout and microlenses at least outhweigh the smaller pixel size, giving a SNR at pixel level at least equal to the 50D. For the overall image, this means better SNR.
My take on black frame noise:
The ISO 12800 samples are free of banding / pattern noise. ISO 12800 is pushed digitally, so it gives a hint of what to expect of camera introduced noise.
Compared to the 50D, there is a major improvement here.
The lack of banding means I can finally smile again. I loved the grain and resolution of the 50D but to be required to put all of my shots that were slightly underexposed or high iso through Nik Dfine was too time consuming.
THis is a life saver. I love the 7D!
Sep 01, 2009 at 02:39 AM
p.7 #19Official 7D Thread
parkap wrote:
HAHAHA Just called Canon Australia to see if they had any news at all on local shipping dates AND THEY HAD NO IDEA WHAT THE 7D WAS.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Go Canon Australia
HAHAHA Just called Canon Australia to see if they had any news at all on local shipping dates AND THEY HAD NO IDEA WHAT THE 7D WAS.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Go Canon Australia
Sep 01, 2009 at 02:39 AM
p.7 #20Official 7D Thread
garyvot wrote:
I have to agree with others that the better weather sealing is a rather obvious omission on the 5D II, especially given its popularity as a landscape camera. Hopefully they'll do a 5D IIn sometime soon with this among the updates.Not to sound like a broken record, but the same claims (of EOS-1n level sealing) were made when the 5D2 was released, FYI.
The "lack" of weather sealing on the 5D2 seems to be an Internet myth.
Yep, the 7D, 5DII and old 1N are supposed to be equally weather sealed:
keeping with its XD designation, the 7D shares the same extensively-sealed magnesium construction as the 5D Mark II. Canon again claims the same degree of moisture and dust resilience as the EOS-1N pro-level film SLR from the 1990s. (DPReview)
15Bit wrote
An impressive spec sheet. Can't say i need the AF (though you never know til you get it), but the weather sealing is certainly an interesting feature which might tip me in favour of this rather than a 50D. The 100% viewfinder with electronic overlay is also rather appealing, as i do seem to have a natural lean to the right....I have to agree with others that the better weather sealing is a rather obvious omission on the 5D II, especially given its popularity as a landscape camera. Hopefully they'll do a 5D IIn sometime soon with this among the updates.
The "lack" of weather sealing on the 5D2 seems to be an Internet myth.
Yep, the 7D, 5DII and old 1N are supposed to be equally weather sealed:
keeping with its XD designation, the 7D shares the same extensively-sealed magnesium construction as the 5D Mark II. Canon again claims the same degree of moisture and dust resilience as the EOS-1N pro-level film SLR from the 1990s. (DPReview)
Sep 01, 2009 at 02:48 AM