This topic is in the 2009 archive. You can read it and like its posts here. It is read only.
Archive 2009Canon 7D
p.45 #1Canon 7D
timbop wrote:
The key to that is the clause "for canon"; somehow we all know canon will not put the exact same AF as the 1d3 for only $1700. They'll compromise somewhere, and I am afraid it will probably be in the area of assist points or something similar. It would be a shame to not include adequate AF assist points for tracking eratic targets just to save $500.
Just to clarify something.
Since I can read Chinese, the 7D poster (if it's genuine) states it'll have 19 all cross AF points. So I guess the 7D won't spot any AF assist points. Sufficient for my needs but not others'.
The key to that is the clause "for canon"; somehow we all know canon will not put the exact same AF as the 1d3 for only $1700. They'll compromise somewhere, and I am afraid it will probably be in the area of assist points or something similar. It would be a shame to not include adequate AF assist points for tracking eratic targets just to save $500.
Just to clarify something.
Since I can read Chinese, the 7D poster (if it's genuine) states it'll have 19 all cross AF points. So I guess the 7D won't spot any AF assist points. Sufficient for my needs but not others'.
Aug 28, 2009 at 10:27 PM
p.45 #2Canon 7D
Oh ye of little faith!
Honestly I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop too, but let's wait a few days and see what the full specs are.
Honestly I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop too, but let's wait a few days and see what the full specs are.
Aug 28, 2009 at 10:27 PM
p.45 #4Canon 7D
timbop wrote:
Hate to say this, but I hope the price on CR is wrong (on the low side). I can't see the 19pt AF really being "pro" at that price, with the 1d3 still selling for $3800. If it debuts at $2300 then it is more likely (IMHO) the 7d is a "baby 1d3"
Haha, I've never heard of people wanting something to cost MORE
I always here this crap about Canon camera such as the 5D not having "pro" autofocus. Will somebody please direct me to the wiki or whatever that defines "pro" autofocus?
People here used to complain that it was the number of AF points, but now that we have a large number, it's still possibly being considered not "pro AF".
As far as I'm concerned, the 5D has "pro" autofocus, and so does the 5Dii. Why? Because the most successful pro wedding photographers I know use them both exclusively. With that said, "pro AF" is still a completely arbitrary term.
This thread is hilarious. If the camera was 12MP, people would complain it's too few (like on the Nikon boards), then when it's 15MP or 18MP, people complain it's too many. 9 AF points are too few to be pro. 19 AF points are too many to be pro at a certain price point.
I picture most of the complainers at these FM hardware forums looking like Statler and Waldorf , the old guys in the balcony on the Muppet Show who complained about everything.
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/9324/k814416e.jpg
Hate to say this, but I hope the price on CR is wrong (on the low side). I can't see the 19pt AF really being "pro" at that price, with the 1d3 still selling for $3800. If it debuts at $2300 then it is more likely (IMHO) the 7d is a "baby 1d3"
Haha, I've never heard of people wanting something to cost MORE
I always here this crap about Canon camera such as the 5D not having "pro" autofocus. Will somebody please direct me to the wiki or whatever that defines "pro" autofocus?
People here used to complain that it was the number of AF points, but now that we have a large number, it's still possibly being considered not "pro AF".
As far as I'm concerned, the 5D has "pro" autofocus, and so does the 5Dii. Why? Because the most successful pro wedding photographers I know use them both exclusively. With that said, "pro AF" is still a completely arbitrary term.
This thread is hilarious. If the camera was 12MP, people would complain it's too few (like on the Nikon boards), then when it's 15MP or 18MP, people complain it's too many. 9 AF points are too few to be pro. 19 AF points are too many to be pro at a certain price point.
I picture most of the complainers at these FM hardware forums looking like Statler and Waldorf , the old guys in the balcony on the Muppet Show who complained about everything.
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/9324/k814416e.jpg
Aug 28, 2009 at 10:32 PM
p.45 #5Canon 7D
musclepics wrote:
Haha, I've never heard of people wanting something to cost MORE
i want gas to cost more, but its not happening i really wish it was $10 a gallon already so people would drive less, and we get fresher air
and i really am tired of looking at rear ends of suvs
timbop wrote
Hate to say this, but I hope the price on CR is wrong (on the low side). I can't see the 19pt AF really being "pro" at that price, with the 1d3 still selling for $3800. If it debuts at $2300 then it is more likely (IMHO) the 7d is a "baby 1d3"i want gas to cost more, but its not happening i really wish it was $10 a gallon already so people would drive less, and we get fresher air
and i really am tired of looking at rear ends of suvs
Aug 28, 2009 at 10:39 PM
p.45 #6Canon 7D
musclepics wrote:
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/9324/k814416e.jpg
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/9324/k814416e.jpg
Aug 28, 2009 at 10:39 PM
p.45 #7Canon 7D
musclepics wrote:
I picture most of the complainers at these FM hardware forums looking like Statler and Waldorf , the old guys in the balcony on the Muppet Show who complained about everything.
I picture most of the complainers at these FM hardware forums looking like Statler and Waldorf , the old guys in the balcony on the Muppet Show who complained about everything.
Aug 28, 2009 at 11:02 PM
p.45 #8Canon 7D
Just an FYI- Canon says the 1D MKIII has a 19 point AF and 63 point metering:
http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=139&modelid=14999#ModelTechSpecsAct
So I don't think the description necessarily means the camera doesn't have the 26 assist AF points. (Of course, it doesn't mean the camera has them either...)
http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=139&modelid=14999#ModelTechSpecsAct
So I don't think the description necessarily means the camera doesn't have the 26 assist AF points. (Of course, it doesn't mean the camera has them either...)
Aug 28, 2009 at 11:36 PM
p.45 #9Canon 7D
Schlotkins wrote:
Just an FYI- Canon says the 1D MKIII has a 19 point AF and 63 point metering:
http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=139&modelid=14999#ModelTechSpecsAct
So I don't think the description necessarily means the camera doesn't have the 26 assist AF points. (Of course, it doesn't mean the camera has them either...)
Interesting.......so Canon is borrowing from Nikon's handbook....... following the steps of the D300..........too bad they missed a beat with the 5DMKII's AF.......but then the video made up for that :-)
Just an FYI- Canon says the 1D MKIII has a 19 point AF and 63 point metering:
http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=139&modelid=14999#ModelTechSpecsAct
So I don't think the description necessarily means the camera doesn't have the 26 assist AF points. (Of course, it doesn't mean the camera has them either...)
Interesting.......so Canon is borrowing from Nikon's handbook....... following the steps of the D300..........too bad they missed a beat with the 5DMKII's AF.......but then the video made up for that :-)
Aug 29, 2009 at 12:01 AM
p.45 #10Canon 7D
roanjohnnyc wrote:
http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=139&modelid=14999#ModelTechSpecsAct
So I don't think the description necessarily means the camera doesn't have the 26 assist AF points. (Of course, it doesn't mean the camera has them either...)Interesting.......so Canon is borrowing from Nikon's handbook....... following the steps of the D300..........too bad they missed a beat with the 5DMKII's AF.......but then the video made up for that :-)
i dont think they missed the beat, there have to be reasons to buy the 1ds3
and the 5d2 seems to sell just fine at its price point
Schlotkins wrote
Just an FYI- Canon says the 1D MKIII has a 19 point AF and 63 point metering:http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=139&modelid=14999#ModelTechSpecsAct
So I don't think the description necessarily means the camera doesn't have the 26 assist AF points. (Of course, it doesn't mean the camera has them either...)
i dont think they missed the beat, there have to be reasons to buy the 1ds3
and the 5d2 seems to sell just fine at its price point
Aug 29, 2009 at 12:05 AM
p.45 #11Canon 7D
If the 7D is what we think it is....how can they release a 60D with prices that close? Canon has caught a lot of flak from what the 50D could have been and over doing the MP's on the sensor. It would seem they wouldnt make the same mistake twice on overloading the sensor. Who knows.... You would think with all the money Canon had they could best the Nikon 300s on the focus system AND the noise. You know Nikon sure didnt want to take a chance on upping the MP's on the new 300s's sensor. I hope this thing isnt getting all hyped up like the 50D for nothing. I love my 50D, but I would trade up on a cleaner high ISO performance alone....not even to mention an upgraded focus system, 100% VF, 8 FPS and video.
Aug 29, 2009 at 12:34 AM
p.45 #12Canon 7D
George.ML wrote:
The intro pricese were $1399 for the 50D and $1299 for the 40D.
and I think $1499 for 20D??
David Estes wrote
The 50D released at 1,299.00, body only.and I think $1499 for 20D??
Aug 29, 2009 at 12:39 AM
p.45 #13Canon 7D
RobertLynn wrote:
So I'll put the ball in your court, because I don't really have to claim anything about the 5D. There's a reason, even now, that IQ alone puts it up there with the top bodies...Yeah, the handling may be somewhere lesser than XXD, but it's most certainly more than XXXD.
To put it bluntly, I think the jump in difference from rebel to 5D, is as great as the difference in jump from XXD to 1 series, IQ not the subject here though, just handling.1D2 has much lower blackout from mirror than even a 50D. So short you often are worried that you didn't even take a picture. And the 50D itself has a noticeably shorter mirror blackout than the 5D2.
Having shot both the 5D2 (which has better performance specs than the 5D) and 50D and 1d2 and rebel for sports I say the 5D2 performance feels a lot more like a rebel in actual sports usage than a 50D and the rebel to 5 jump feels a LOT smaller than the 50D to 1 series jump in terms of speed of feel (ignoring AF for the moment and any other aspect).
granted the 5 series af does better for that than the rebel and maybe even better than the 50D but it is crazy to say the fps/mirror/etc feel like they are quick and responsive.
I dont get why 5D1 owners are so ridiculously defensive about their cameras, simply put it is NOT a high performance body, but somewhat towards the lower tier when it comes to mirror box/shutter/fps.I never said the 5D was a "high performance body"... I think it was targeted at a user who wanted the ability to use a FF sensor, at a price that's within reason, and superb IQ in a 35mm size camera.
I'm not ridiculously defensive about my camera either. I'm straight forward with it, IQ-wise, it's a hard camera to beat, and even the cameras that do beat on it, don't beat on it by too much.
IQ is the winner for me. I use my 5D for sports, not because I want to, but because I have to. I've got a...Show more →
I just said it was sort of like a Rebel with a FF sensor since the fps and all that were closer to a Rebel than anything else, not that the IQ was not way better, etc.
skibum5 wrote
RobertLynn wrote
So how is it a rebel? The body is magnesium alloy, and a little more full feeling than the XXd bodies. Rebels are plastic. It has better AF than a rebel. Long mirror blackout I believe is as a result of design of the FF camera. I have no experience with the 1ds1 and 1ds2, but I'm thinking that they are a bit slower than a newer camera now also.So I'll put the ball in your court, because I don't really have to claim anything about the 5D. There's a reason, even now, that IQ alone puts it up there with the top bodies...Yeah, the handling may be somewhere lesser than XXD, but it's most certainly more than XXXD.
To put it bluntly, I think the jump in difference from rebel to 5D, is as great as the difference in jump from XXD to 1 series, IQ not the subject here though, just handling.
Having shot both the 5D2 (which has better performance specs than the 5D) and 50D and 1d2 and rebel for sports I say the 5D2 performance feels a lot more like a rebel in actual sports usage than a 50D and the rebel to 5 jump feels a LOT smaller than the 50D to 1 series jump in terms of speed of feel (ignoring AF for the moment and any other aspect).
granted the 5 series af does better for that than the rebel and maybe even better than the 50D but it is crazy to say the fps/mirror/etc feel like they are quick and responsive.
I dont get why 5D1 owners are so ridiculously defensive about their cameras, simply put it is NOT a high performance body, but somewhat towards the lower tier when it comes to mirror box/shutter/fps.
I'm not ridiculously defensive about my camera either. I'm straight forward with it, IQ-wise, it's a hard camera to beat, and even the cameras that do beat on it, don't beat on it by too much.
IQ is the winner for me. I use my 5D for sports, not because I want to, but because I have to. I've got a...Show more →
I just said it was sort of like a Rebel with a FF sensor since the fps and all that were closer to a Rebel than anything else, not that the IQ was not way better, etc.
Aug 29, 2009 at 12:41 AM
p.45 #14Canon 7D
If the last spec and price turn out right I'll surely buy it.
Happy shooting,
Yakim.
Happy shooting,
Yakim.
Aug 29, 2009 at 12:43 AM
p.45 #15Canon 7D
timbop wrote:
Nikon managed to squeeze pro-ish AF into the D300s at $1800, so $1700 doesn't sound unreasonable for Canon.The key to that is the clause "for canon"; somehow we all know canon will not put the exact same AF as the 1d3 for only $1700. They'll compromise somewhere, and I am afraid it will probably be in the area of assist points or something similar. It would be a shame to not include adequate AF assist points for tracking eratic targets just to save $500.
yeah it would be so weird if they gave it tons of regular x-type points and no assist and then called it the action cam
and then all the wedding guys and gals are crying about the 5D2 non-center point....
(although i myself am glad the 5d2 got assists more than outer point stuff)
almost like they did it in reverse
anyway we are getting ahead of ourselves, maybe it will do AI Servo fantastically
Yohan Pamudji wrote
timbop wrote
Hate to say this, but I hope the price on CR is wrong (on the low side). I can't see the 19pt AF really being "pro" at that price, with the 1d3 still selling for $3800. If it debuts at $2300 then it is more likely (IMHO) the 7d is a "baby 1d3"yeah it would be so weird if they gave it tons of regular x-type points and no assist and then called it the action cam
and then all the wedding guys and gals are crying about the 5D2 non-center point....
(although i myself am glad the 5d2 got assists more than outer point stuff)
almost like they did it in reverse
anyway we are getting ahead of ourselves, maybe it will do AI Servo fantastically
Aug 29, 2009 at 12:43 AM
p.45 #16Canon 7D
musclepics wrote:
Haha, I've never heard of people wanting something to cost MORE
I always here this crap about Canon camera such as the 5D not having "pro" autofocus. Will somebody please direct me to the wiki or whatever that defines "pro" autofocus?
People here used to complain that it was the number of AF points, but now that we have a large number, it's still possibly being considered not "pro AF".
As far as I'm concerned, the 5D has "pro" autofocus, and so does the 5Dii. Why? Because the most successful pro wedding photographers I know use them both exclusively. With that...Show more →
haha that is kind of funny even if it is me
timbop wrote
Hate to say this, but I hope the price on CR is wrong (on the low side). I can't see the 19pt AF really being "pro" at that price, with the 1d3 still selling for $3800. If it debuts at $2300 then it is more likely (IMHO) the 7d is a "baby 1d3"I always here this crap about Canon camera such as the 5D not having "pro" autofocus. Will somebody please direct me to the wiki or whatever that defines "pro" autofocus?
People here used to complain that it was the number of AF points, but now that we have a large number, it's still possibly being considered not "pro AF".
As far as I'm concerned, the 5D has "pro" autofocus, and so does the 5Dii. Why? Because the most successful pro wedding photographers I know use them both exclusively. With that...Show more →
haha that is kind of funny even if it is me
Aug 29, 2009 at 12:44 AM
p.45 #17Canon 7D
Uh, the 40D body was $1299, kit $1499, when I bought mine.
BTW - the supposed "7D" is a crop. Do you think Canon is going to make 15 or 18mm lense standard on a FF body? That is a somewhat specialized spec. combo for the average moron shooting his kids at Disney World with a telescoping variable max. aperture flimsy plastic lense. I'd say 110% unlikely to happen. But, what do I know. I just started shooting a Mamiya TLR!
Edited on Aug 29, 2009 at 12:49 AM · View previous versions
BTW - the supposed "7D" is a crop. Do you think Canon is going to make 15 or 18mm lense standard on a FF body? That is a somewhat specialized spec. combo for the average moron shooting his kids at Disney World with a telescoping variable max. aperture flimsy plastic lense. I'd say 110% unlikely to happen. But, what do I know. I just started shooting a Mamiya TLR!
Edited on Aug 29, 2009 at 12:49 AM · View previous versions
Aug 29, 2009 at 12:44 AM
p.45 #18Canon 7D
Schlotkins wrote:
Just an FYI- Canon says the 1D MKIII has a 19 point AF and 63 point metering:
http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=139&modelid=14999#ModelTechSpecsAct
So I don't think the description necessarily means the camera doesn't have the 26 assist AF points. (Of course, it doesn't mean the camera has them either...)
although on overview:
"The 1D Mark III has a redesigned 100% viewfinder, a new 45-point AF system, and can shoot "
where is my 5d2 box.... i wonder if it says 9 or 15....
HOLY CRAP! You are onto something man!
My 5D2 box has a little emblem that says.... NINE AF points not a peep about assist points or 15 points anywhere on the box.
So hope is still alive, although there is hardly a guarantee....
Just an FYI- Canon says the 1D MKIII has a 19 point AF and 63 point metering:
http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=139&modelid=14999#ModelTechSpecsAct
So I don't think the description necessarily means the camera doesn't have the 26 assist AF points. (Of course, it doesn't mean the camera has them either...)
although on overview:
"The 1D Mark III has a redesigned 100% viewfinder, a new 45-point AF system, and can shoot "
where is my 5d2 box.... i wonder if it says 9 or 15....
HOLY CRAP! You are onto something man!
My 5D2 box has a little emblem that says.... NINE AF points not a peep about assist points or 15 points anywhere on the box.
So hope is still alive, although there is hardly a guarantee....
Aug 29, 2009 at 12:46 AM
p.45 #19Canon 7D
michael49 wrote:
You mean limit at 6400 isoAgreed. We'll see.
It just pisses me off what Canon does with the 5D II's AF and then they make this 1.6X camera. Will Canon never make a 5D sized FF camera with semi-pro AF, like the D700? Because I really want just one camera and that would do it for me.
Yes, of course they will, and that they have offered an new AF in a consumer 1.6x crop means IMO, it's just a matter of time. Next year is Photokina and I'd be willing to bet a 5D II update could come with improved AF, 5fps, etc. One thing with Canon is they do eventually get the message but it can take -3 generations to happen. Just don't upgrade every cycle.
Fred Relaix wrote
[You mean limit at 6400 iso
It just pisses me off what Canon does with the 5D II's AF and then they make this 1.6X camera. Will Canon never make a 5D sized FF camera with semi-pro AF, like the D700? Because I really want just one camera and that would do it for me.
Yes, of course they will, and that they have offered an new AF in a consumer 1.6x crop means IMO, it's just a matter of time. Next year is Photokina and I'd be willing to bet a 5D II update could come with improved AF, 5fps, etc. One thing with Canon is they do eventually get the message but it can take -3 generations to happen. Just don't upgrade every cycle.
Aug 29, 2009 at 01:45 AM
p.45 #20Canon 7D
Sibilant wrote:
Of course it does, Hell I want to buy a 500 f/4 and I don't even have a use for one!! But I can't imagine they'd think you're more likely to buy a 1D just to be able to autofocus your 400 5.6 with a 1.4x, it's quite a leap of faith to think not implementing f/8 focussing will 'protect' the 1D lineup. about the 500. The funny thing is that the pro's are probably far less likely to use AF at f/8 anyway. They can afford the big guns and don't want to suffer the IQ penalty of a TC on a f/5.6 lens.
Not that you would need it with an 18MP 1.6x cropper, but I often use a 500 f/4 + 2x on the 1D II. But the 7D has 3.6xthe pixel density and is effectively a 1.9x TC compared to the 1D II. My 500 on a 7D would be like a 950mm on a 1D II. At most you'd need a 1.4x on a 500 or 600.
Chris Beaumont wrote
Sibilant wrote
But I think Canon really wants me to buy the 500 f/4Chris Beaumont wrote
If this camera is using the 1D Autofocus, which obviously is capable of f/8 focussing, it'd be an exceptionally cynical move to deliberately leave it out. about the 500. The funny thing is that the pro's are probably far less likely to use AF at f/8 anyway. They can afford the big guns and don't want to suffer the IQ penalty of a TC on a f/5.6 lens.Not that you would need it with an 18MP 1.6x cropper, but I often use a 500 f/4 + 2x on the 1D II. But the 7D has 3.6xthe pixel density and is effectively a 1.9x TC compared to the 1D II. My 500 on a 7D would be like a 950mm on a 1D II. At most you'd need a 1.4x on a 500 or 600.
Aug 29, 2009 at 01:58 AM