If FF3.5.2 (and Safari?) assume sRGB in the absence of a profile, why does the same sRGB image appear differently depending on if a profile is present or not (at least in my case)? On my calibrated monitor, colors appear differently as below.
1) sRGB image with embedded profile:
Both FF and Safari display similar colors consistent with Photoshop.
2) Same image as above but without profile:
Both FF and Safari display similar colors to each other but are both slightly off. Photoshop stays the same.
AFAIK, there is a critical difference between FF and Safari. Depending on your color management settings in FF, it will assume that untagged content is sRGB and display it as such. In Safari, it will just display the content without any color management. On a sRGB monitor you will see small shifts. On a wide gamut monitor, you will see big shifts between the two.
You should check your color management settings on FF ... this may help you get a closer match to Photoshop. I don't think there is anything you can do for the Safari image.
Both FF and Safari are color managed. My FF color management setting is set to 2. In any case, the difference here isn't between browsers -- both show identical colors that are both off for untagged images. If they are assuming sRGB profile for untagged sRGB images, shouldn't the colors remain consistent? My monitor is an NEC 3090 with Spectraview.
It's worth noting that the gamma on Firefox is distinctly brighter than most browsers and is definitely not matched to the RGB colour space. I've got two images that have shadow detail that's 'hidden' in normal RGB gamma in Ps but in Firefox it shows those areas as clipped In Opera/IE those areas are properly in shadow.
But in my case, both FF and Safari are showing same or similar colors. With profile embedded, both show correct colors as in PS. Without profile, both browsers are off by similar amounts. So the difference isn't FF specific.
What I find confusing is that if FF is assuming sRGB for untagged images, why would colors appear different for the same sRGB image with profile attached. In both cases, FF should still be applying sRGB profile to the image.
dmashita wrote:
Both FF and Safari are color managed. My FF color management setting is set to 2. In any case, the difference here isn't between browsers -- both show identical colors that are both off for untagged images. If they are assuming sRGB profile for untagged sRGB images, shouldn't the colors remain consistent? My monitor is an NEC 3090 with Spectraview.
It is my understanding that FF in mode 2 only color manages tagged content. So it is performing like Safari in that regard. If you use mode 1, then it should be assuming sRGB for untagged content and this might give you a better result for your untagged sRGB image.
If you own a 3090, you will get junk color in Safari and your web colors will be off in mode 2 in FF. Try mode 1 and see if it is closer to your color managed Photoshop environment. I have a 2690 and it is my understanding that FF is the only browser that will work correctly on a wide gamut monitor (in mode 1).
FF mode 1 and 2 determines whether non-image content (CSS colors) are managed or not and should have no effect on image content. In either mode, images will be color managed. And as I noted earlier, both FF and Safari are displaying identical colors (whether tagged or untagged), so it isn't an issue with FF or Safari alone.
Are you getting different colors in Safari than from FF on your 2690?
I should have said above ... welcome to the forum because you are new ... so welcome and hopefully this post will solve your problems. To answer your question, I am getting TOTALLY different color in Safari and FF 3.5 (mode 1). Under mode 2, I am getting basically identical results.
OK to try to explain what is going on ... please read this carefully because this is the last time I am going to go through this in this thread. I know this is difficult stuff and can be confusing, but Faolan and I have a lot of expertise and this question comes up frequently on the forum.
1. FF and Safari handle color management differently. Untagged content (all web content basically) will be junk on a wide gamut monitor like yours (at least under Windows) when using Safari. On a 3090, you do not want to use Safari for your web browsing because it was not designed for wide gamut monitors. This is because Safari does not apply any color management to untagged web content. Web browsing will also be junk under color management mode 2 on FF 3.5 because it does not apply any color management to untagged content. It will be correct under mode 1 (but, will have a slight gamma boost making the image appear ever so slightly brighter than Photoshop).
2. If you want FF to render non-tagged images (and all web content correctly), you need to be in color management mode 1. I have just gone back and reconfirmed this on my system (2690, Windows XP). You should have tried it when I mentioned it above and you could have saved me an hour of downloading Safari and retesting all of this.
3. Tagged and untagged sRGB images will appear the same under mode 1 on FF. Under mode 2. Tagged content will appear OK. Untagged content will match Safari and be total junk.
So please try mode 1 and compare that to Photoshop. The images should be close with the FF image very slightly brighter ... but, nothing like the complete junk (over saturated reds and other colors) in Safari or mode 2 FF. You should also confirm that your active monitor profile is being used by FF by checking the FF configuration. When you retest this, use an image with saturated red content in it to really see what is going on immediately.
You can't really show how Safari, FF and Photoshop compare on a wide gamut monitor with a screen grab ... but, here is one to give you a slight feel for the differences. In reality, the Safari image is way over saturated. Image order (left to right): FF (mode 1), Photoshop, Safari.
Here is a comparison between FF, Photoshop and Safari with FF set to mode 2 color mangement. Again, you can't really represent just how bad the FF and Safari images look on a wide gamut monitor. But, this can give you an idea of the direction they are going in.
A NOTE FOR OTHERS FINDING THIS THREAD IN THE FUTURE: These comments relate to wide gamut monitors. Wide gamut monitors require that you use color managed applications to have accurate color. When you are in a non-color managed application you will get over saturated colors on a wide gamut monitor. The easiest way to test this is to display an image with saturated red content. Safari is billed as a color managed application, but this is misleading on a wide gamut monitor since it is only rendering tagged content in a correct manner. On a standard gamut monitor this may be a reasonable assumption, but on a wide gamut monitor this will lead to most web content being displayed incorrectly because it is not tagged.
Thanks so much for the detailed post. Apparently I misread the FF mode settings hence why I was mistaken that both mode 1 and 2 provide management for untagged images. I also tested the different modes sometime ago but for whatever reason, thought there wasn't any noticeable difference. But now that I went back and reread the description, it all makes sense. And switching to mode 1 did fix the color difference between FF and PS. So now only Safari is off but that's to be expected.
Thanks again. Yes, should have listened to you earlier and tried it out again.
