I disagree with the analogy, but respect that Paul can sell and configure his products as he wishes. As an Elinchrom user, I would happily pay a premium for an Elinchrom-adapted version of the product if its as good as it seems. This allows them to profit additionally despite the fact that I'm not in the market to replace my current light gear, drives loyalty to the company, and pressures the other OEMs to lower their own pricing (and profits). It's his call, but I'm only asking whether it's going to be considered or if my money will, for lack of opportunity, have to go elsewhere.
Paul has never catered to Profoto, Elinchrom, or Bron users. I highly doubt that he'd risk the strength, rigidity, and structure of his product just to cater to an extremely small market of Elinchrom users. Before you start attacking me, by small I mean in comparison to his fleet of AB users in the US.
Switch to Profoto if you really want a Euro brand and they'll work fine. :-)
sboerup wrote:
Wait, if embrey is using his Profoto heads, then it will work with Elinchrom, right?. I thought they shared the same size.
No, Elinchrom is the only big brand I know of that has a 7mm slot. My D4 heads have fit every umbrella I've tried.
That's one of the big advantages to Profoto's design, that the slot is inside the mount body instead of outside where the reflector goes, so you can attach a modifier with the speedring clamp and then alter it further with an insert or any other attachment that can slide into the umbrella mount. It also makes it handy for gelling a softbox if you're handy with a few tools, instead of clipping/taping a whole sheet to the inside of the SB.
sboerup wrote:
Wait, if embrey is using his Profoto heads, then it will work with Elinchrom, right?. I thought they shared the same size.
I was under the impression that Elinchrom were the only currently using the 7mm shaft? I was told that by the Elinchrom rep yesterday, so while I know he may not be dialed in on Profoto specs, I did expect that to be accurate. Still, in this case, I'd love it if he were wrong .
bacilonur wrote:
Paul has never catered to Profoto, Elinchrom, or Bron users. I highly doubt that he'd risk the strength, rigidity, and structure of his product just to cater to an extremely small market of Elinchrom users. Before you start attacking me, by small I mean in comparison to his fleet of AB users in the US.
I don't doubt the size of the market; I only mean to suggest that the cost associated with offering two versions (or simply a 'conversion kit') may still allow for a respectable (even desirable) margin on the product and for that reason be worth the company's time. Neither of us know if that would be the case, and that's simply my reason for asking. I've no interest in attacking anyone, as I'm the one trying to save a $ .
Daniel Heineck wrote:
... Now, for the math geeks amongst us, we could do some ray tracing and find out the propagation characteristic of a parabolic reflector setup with reasonable accuracy.
It will show that collimated light from a parabolic reflector - necessarily created from a point source - is itself a point source. As such, it obeys ISL (a matter of light intensity), but NOT the geometry of apparent size (size is zero). In this lighting behavior, the para is equivalent to a planar mirror as reflector. I have the Profoto Narrow Beam, a shiny parabolic: standing at the receiving end and moving my head around, the point source moves around within the reflector rim. Pics from C.D.E. show the lack of stray light, and quite unlike a white surface that generates a light source both diffused and of non-zero size.
The problem is that because of the intrinsic design of the PLM, he'd have to redo the entire shaft due to how close the head mounts inside of unit, so it couldn't just be an adapter. I've got a couple of those small umbrellas with shafts that either unscrew or are telescopic, and they can barely support their own weight (at only about 40'').
Like I said, aside from the time involved in designing an alternative just for Elinca users, Paul would also be risking his reputation when some idiot picks one up at a garage sale and mounts the 86'' from the very tip of the shaft like that guy did on Youtube, only with a 7mm shaft.
Profoto users have to pay $130 to use some of Elinchrom's great modifiers. Elinchrom makes it harder than almost any other manufacturer to use their SBs thanks to their crappy integrated speedrings. If you want to use it, maybe you should pick up a long 8mm drill bit... :-)
By your explanation, then, this would be a matter only of a two part replacement at the time of assembly - a different shaft and a different guide for the spokes / ribs. Again depending on acquisition costs for the parts (and agreeing that the shaft might need be of a higher grade), there may or may not be a reasonable profit to be made from offering such a product. I'm simply suggesting that it be looked at as I represent a potential customer and a source of revenue, not that I have access to the source costs for all involved and can therefore know whether this would be profitable for him.
If I'd wish to use the PLM with Elinchrom I'd let a turning shop make an adaptor bushing and cut off the PLM's shaft where appropriate. The bushing tube maybe 4" long - each 2" are 8 resp 7mm inner diameter. A 7mm (stainless steel) bar to the ending...voilá.
Tiny sidely bolts / screws (or splints) secure both rods from slipping off. For this a piece of thick wire shoved into the end of the 8mm rod will hold the pressure of the bolts better.
roanjohnnyc wrote:
Not the same size unfortunately.
CURSE Elinchrom for being difficult!!!
The shaft size is 7mm for the central umbrella fitting only, otherwise you can certainly use any size shaft with the standard umbrella mount available on all but the D-Lites, as I recall. I don't think Elinchrom is making it difficult as much as they are providing options for deflector use and/or enhanced umbrella performance.
Not sure it would be such a great idea to mount one of these beasts in the central umbrella fitting, even if you could. That's a lot of sail to be hanging off a 7mm internal tube, with no extra support or clamp to tighten.
I don't mean to sound negative but can someone at some point in time post a people image that would make me want to buy one of these? I haven't seen anything yet that something this big and cumbersome that makes it worth it. Certainly, anything that I can't do with any softbox or taking the difussers off my 53" Octa. I have seen stuff with Profoto's giant parabolic reflectors that is wonderful if you have the studio room and money for that application. Thank you
Paul Buff wrote:
8. The most outstanding use of the silver PLM is for overpowering the sun with a giant light source, from substantial distances with smallish light units. With 600WS it is easy to obtain f22 to 32 at 10', ISO 100. If that won't get it you've aren't dealing with the sun we have on earth or you need to study the use parameters of distance, power, placement and general lighting physics.
This is the reason the PLM sparked my interest... I'm wondering how far away I could get f16 with 1300 w/s...I'm terrible at math .
Thanks for taking the time. I purchased the 86" white w/front diffuser and black backing exactly because I DO want a very large, shallow, lightweight, soft, broad light source. Not everyone is looking for a giant, focused light source.
Thanks again for years of great, quality products with innovative design and affordable prices.
All of this is a little like saying a Mercedes engine ought to bolt into a Chevy. Why doesn't Elinchrom make AB mounts for all their accessories, or Hensel mounts ad infinitum? We try to make a system that works for our customers, not for our competitors. When everything becomes generic all innovation is lost.
Elinchrom RXs have a second umbrella mount that will hold larger shafts . . . not a very good mount and not well placed, but it's there.
The whole industry is basically settled on 8mm umbrella mounts . . . I would think the better argument would be "Hey, El, why do you insist on perpetuating a design that is so out of step with the rest of the industry?"
Paul Buff wrote:
All of this is a little like saying a Mercedes engine ought to bolt into a Chevy. Why doesn't Elinchrom make AB mounts for all their accessories, or Hensel mounts ad infinitum? We try to make a system that works for our customers, not for our competitors. When everything becomes generic all innovation is lost.
Elinchrom RXs have a second umbrella mount that will hold larger shafts . . . not a very good mount and not well placed, but it's there.
The whole industry is basically settled on 8mm umbrella mounts . . . I would think the better argument would be "Hey, El, why do you insist on perpetuating a design that is so out of step with the rest of the industry?"...Show more →
Paul Buff wrote:
I would think the better argument would be "Hey, El, why do you insist on perpetuating a design that is so out of step with the rest of the industry?"
Straight from the source (asked yesterday): Backwards compatibility.
Scott Clark wrote:
This is the reason the PLM sparked my interest... I'm wondering how far away I could get f16 with 1300 w/s...I'm terrible at math .
Quick calculation: Double the distance loses two f stops, double the power gains 1f. I get pretty close to f22 from 320WS at ten feet. At 20' this would go to f11. Upping to 640WS would give f16, 1300WS would give f22. F16 from 1300WS would occur at about 28' at max focus.
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