Have you ever been left holding the bag after fulfilling your end of a promise? I have on several occasions but this last time was from a major newspaper, the New York Times.
I received an email from our Endangered Species Leader asking if I would help the New York Times with some of the photos I had taken at some past blood testing events with the NYSDEC.
I agreed and on a late part of the day in late November, I received a phone call from the Science Dept. of the New York Times for my help as they were going to press that night. I did what I had too so they could meet their deadline on the article.
I was promised payment for my work and photos but I ask them to donate the check of $100.00 to the Raptor Center that was dear to me for all they did. To this day no payment has been made and I have appealed to the reporter I dealt with several times and after no reply I went to the Editor twice for some help. Again, no reply. I finally wrote a letter to the CEO and yes, you guessed it I still to this day have not seen a check delivered to the Delaware Valley Raptor Center.
My original email to the reporter,
Soo-Jeong Kang
I helped you out in a hurry for the article about the Bald Eagle in New York and the Mercury issue. (Remember me, Lou buscher)? I was promised a check for one hundred dollars and requested it be sent to the Delaware Valley Raptor Center. They have not received this check yet so I am reminding you to please see that it gets mailed out as I do not want to go to your editor with a broken promise.
I request a reply to this e-mail with in a few days or I go higher to get this check promised.
Lou Buscher
Sandwich Ma.
I enclose several of the links that were involved in this story back in late November 2008.
Lou
Why would you expect them to send them a check to a third party?
Why not have them send you the check and then you can forward the money on to the center. Having them send to another party adds more work than there needs to be. Not only are they dealing with you, but you want them to deal with someone else on top of that?
Seems kind of lazy on your part since all you would have had to do is forward the money on by yourself.
Tanner, are you kidding me? Seems the agreement was for them to do as Lou requested, if it were to be a problem doing it in that manner don't you think they should have informed Lou at that time or even a short period after.
The point made I believe is I did my part and I can't get them to do their part, and the most frustrating part is the simple one, COMMUNICATION! It doesn't take but one moment to reply to an email and resolve the issue, apparently no one wants to take that simple responsibility.
I doubt Lou has ever taken the 'lazy way' out of anything, you seemed to have greatly missed the point. And if a large newspaper can't handle a direct payment to a third party it makes me wonder about their credibility, well wait, I guess they are showing their lack of credibility or care for what they already agreed to.
Lou, it isn't like the old days where you can take someones word, I bet your phone would have rung off the hook if you didn't fullfill to them what you agreed to. Shame on the staff of the newspaper for not replying to you or intially giving you the option to receive the payment direct and forward to the Raptor Center. At least one party of this agreement held up their side of it, no surprise that it was you Buddy!
Tanner_J wrote:
Why would you expect them to send them a check to a third party?
Why not have them send you the check and then you can forward the money on to the center. Having them send to another party adds more work than there needs to be. Not only are they dealing with you, but you want them to deal with someone else on top of that?
Seems kind of lazy on your part since all you would have had to do is forward the money on by yourself.
Well Tanner I ask that but was told it was OK. I think now about it and agree you are right as I am sure none of us will ever see the check. As for them having more work to do well I say tough as I went all out for them trying to get high rez. photos buried in my external drives. I never ask fo any payment, I was told by them they would pay for my work. I have never ask for payment with any of my eagle photos that were used for education and information and always with the blessing of the NYSDEC. I don't call what I have done with the education of the bald eagle in my lifetime with my photos being lazy as you should try getting to some of these places eagles like to live. Its just a matter of principle in my view. I thank you for the reply.
Lou
Tanner_J wrote:
Why would you expect them to send them a check to a third party?
Why not have them send you the check and then you can forward the money on to the center. Having them send to another party adds more work than there needs to be. Not only are they dealing with you, but you want them to deal with someone else on top of that?
Seems kind of lazy on your part since all you would have had to do is forward the money on by yourself.
What kind of moronic answer is that?! Lou did them a favor, for God's sake! You'd think that they would make it right! A check is a check is a check. It doesn't add any more work to the process, and truthfully, the NYT could use it as a tax donation to a charitable organization. I've worked in advertising, specifically media buying, and unfortunately, am well aware of the New York Times. They want their money for an ad run virtually within minutes of going to press, and yet, you have to wait months for a credit because they frequently screw up their billing!
Karl Witt wrote:
Tanner, are you kidding me? Seems the agreement was for them to do as Lou requested, if it were to be a problem doing it in that manner don't you think they should have informed Lou at that time or even a short period after.
The point made I believe is I did my part and I can't get them to do their part, and the most frustrating part is the simple one, COMMUNICATION! It doesn't take but one moment to reply to an email and resolve the issue, apparently no one wants to take that simple responsibility.
I doubt Lou has ever taken the 'lazy way' out of anything, you seemed to have greatly missed the point. And if a large newspaper can't handle a direct payment to a third party it makes me wonder about their credibility, well wait, I guess they are showing their lack of credibility or care for what they already agreed to.
Lou, it isn't like the old days where you can take someones word, I bet your phone would have rung off the hook if you didn't fullfill to them what you agreed to. Shame on the staff of the newspaper for not replying to you or intially giving you the option to receive the payment direct and forward to the Raptor Center. At least one party of this agreement held up their side of it, no surprise that it was you Buddy!
Thanks Karl That Science reporter called me as I recall about three in the afternoon and demanding I get right with it as they were promised from the DEC full cooperation and I in all the years doing volunteer work for then would never let them down. I have donated more photos of eagles doing all that eagles do to them for education and I got gas money from them for my work and you know I would do it anyway even with out gas money. I am doing it now with the Mass Audubon and the osprey and I donate all photos for their use in their publications and I get what I deserve and that's satisfaction of telling someone that needs to know with a photo.
Lou
Unfortunately, my suggestion might cost you a couple of $$ which is regrettable but you should bypass email and go straight with a registered letter to the editor, return receipt requested to be signed by the editor himself, reminding them of the promise that was made, and requesting your funds. From personal experience, I know that the NYT only returns calls and emails when it's in their best interest (i.e. spending money with them)...
Unfortunately, my suggestion might cost you a couple of $$ which is regrettable but you should bypass email and go straight with a registered letter to the editor, return receipt requested to be signed by the editor himself, reminding them of the promise that was made, and requesting your funds. From personal experience, I know that the NYT only returns calls and emails when it's in their best interest (i.e. spending money with them)...
Chris
Thanks Chris and a couple of bucks it may be as I am going to resend to the CEO again. Believe me its not the money but the way these people act when they need you. A promise is a promise. I wonder if they will be one of the next papers to go belly up or ask for a taxpayer handout:
Lou
You all can think I'm idiots and whatnot, obviously what he's doing isn't working so if he wants the money he better start calling people and demanding answers.
Part of the problem I see is when he said "That Science reporter called me as I recall about three in the afternoon and demanding I get right with it as they were promised from the DEC full cooperation and I in all the years doing volunteer work for then would never let them down."
Why are you letting others promise your services to other people? I'd probably honestly tell Mr. Science Reporter that demanding me to hop to it because of a lack of them hiring a photographer to do the work and/of waiting until last minute is his problem. You think he wrote his article in a day? Probably not. The reporter probably would have said anything to get the photos he needed because in the end if he doesn't get results, it's his butt going down the tube, not yours. Is it a reporters place to promise you money, let alone to set up an arrangement for payment to be sent some place other than you? He's a reporter, not payroll or accounting. Once again, it sounds like a reporter promised him something, not someone who actually has the authority. Sure he should get paid, keyword being HE. They should not have to send checks to third parties other than the ones they are dealing with directly. It's obvious to me some of you all don't know the process of getting paid from big publications, and that's fine. It's the New York Times, not small town press which publishes once a month.
It's great that you do volunteer work and I do some as well, but I let the people know that if they need anything that I need advanced notice and I let them know the images are mine and not to promise them to anyone. Seems almost like the group you were working with short changed you in a way by telling the paper that you would do whatever they needed. I'd have a nice sit down talk and tell them not to do it again.
If they agreed to send the cheque, they should do it, whether it is to you or the raptor centre I don't see that it makes a difference.
You might try sending an invoice to the NY Times accounts department. That way, it will get straight to the people who pay the money and the accounts people will have a bit of paper so they can reconcile the payment.
I did all these interviews many years ago due to something that happened.
I kept asking the interviewing parties to donate to the Widow's & Orphan's Fund for the Fire Department & the Guide Dogs of America - - none were ever done. Finally one did - I got at least a letter saying so.
In November I did a follow up interview - they told me they were willing to donate - I told them to send me the check & I would donate to my choice of causes. Which I did.
I can't believe this hasn't been resolved What is wrong with people these days
I think Chris B has a great point in sending out a registered letter...Then we'll go to
plan B
Plan B: Get a lawyer friend to send the certified letter
Tanner_J wrote:
You all can think I'm idiots and whatnot, obviously what he's doing isn't working so if he wants the money he better start calling people and demanding answers.
Part of the problem I see is when he said "That Science reporter called me as I recall about three in the afternoon and demanding I get right with it as they were promised from the DEC full cooperation and I in all the years doing volunteer work for then would never let them down."
Why are you letting others promise your services to other people? I'd probably honestly tell Mr. Science Reporter that demanding me to hop to it because of a lack of them hiring a photographer to do the work and/of waiting until last minute is his problem. You think he wrote his article in a day? Probably not. The reporter probably would have said anything to get the photos he needed because in the end if he doesn't get results, it's his butt going down the tube, not yours. Is it a reporters place to promise you money, let alone to set up an arrangement for payment to be sent some place other than you? He's a reporter, not payroll or accounting. Once again, it sounds like a reporter promised him something, not someone who actually has the authority. Sure he should get paid, keyword being HE. They should not have to send checks to third parties other than the ones they are dealing with directly. It's obvious to me some of you all don't know the process of getting paid from big publications, and that's fine. It's the New York Times, not small town press which publishes once a month.
It's great that you do volunteer work and I do some as well, but I let the people know that if they need anything that I need advanced notice and I let them know the images are mine and not to promise them to anyone. Seems almost like the group you were working with short changed you in a way by telling the paper that you would do whatever they needed. I'd have a nice sit down talk and tell them not to do it again....Show more →
Tanner_J, Please reread in my opening post you would see I am not letting someone else do my bargaining for me.
(Second Paragraph) I received an email from our Endangered Species Leader asking if I would help the New York Times with some of the photos I had taken at some past blood testing events.
I agreed and told him I would.
I have been in the field with Mr. Pete Nye (the ESU leader) many times and know if he is asking for some help from me about the NY birds you can bet I will do it every time. I never, do any thing or say anything about a nesting pair of birds other than the County they are in unless they ask me too. They have a word for this and its called TALON WHIPPED.
Now if you knew about the bald eagle going back to the lean years (see link Still Soaring) http://www.loubuscher.com/Still%20Soaring.htm
you would know why you do not need to advertise nest locations when we are trying to bring them back. The last person in the world you want there is a reporter from a major newspaper. do you know just how bad these people can screw up a bunch of your words or photos? Hell they can not even get the name right. If you have done any volunteer work as you stated you would know when dealing with the eagle, it is a completely different ball game. On the other hand I would almost believe most photographers that do photo journal work for a living would not know what to do or act around an eight week old eaglet and maybe not even want to go where they choose to live.
Look, this is all B-S, all I want is what was promised to me, and I cannot get it. It was not my idea but theirs so I will pursue on with it as I have been. I posted this so as my photos do (educate) so be it that someone else will not be falling in to the same thing.
I’ll say this Tanner_J your right about one thing and that being there a bunch of cheap of SOBs so why should they send a news photographer out, cost money. There is a lot more in the planning of this as to the weather, a date to do it as the eaglet has to be eight weeks of age for a true blood reading.
BTW If that person that called me said it would be done than it is their job weather they’re a reporter or the CEO.
Lou
PierreB wrote:
If they agreed to send the cheque, they should do it, whether it is to you or the raptor centre I don't see that it makes a difference.
You might try sending an invoice to the NY Times accounts department. That way, it will get straight to the people who pay the money and the accounts people will have a bit of paper so they can reconcile the payment.
PierreB, thanks and it is a good though just one I feel I should not have to do. I have been through this before with a Magazine and I finally did get paid after telling them I was going to small claims court.
Lou
Lil Judd wrote:
I did all these interviews many years ago due to something that happened.
I kept asking the interviewing parties to donate to the Widow's & Orphan's Fund for the Fire Department & the Guide Dogs of America - - none were ever done. Finally one did - I got at least a letter saying so.
In November I did a follow up interview - they told me they were willing to donate - I told them to send me the check & I would donate to my choice of causes. Which I did.
Good advise Lil but its hard to turn a good friend down and the NYSDEC has been very good to me in many ways. I can't tell you what a pleasure it is to be involved with them and the bald and golden eagle and the Delaware Valley Raptor Center. It was a great part of my life and only wish I ws young again to start over.
Lou
Sorry it happened to you . I did some shots of Tug Boats for this Magazine and after he published them he said my shots were not good enough and I never got a Nickel. Then a few months later I picked up a copy and he was using one of my shots Commercially. At the time I was on the war path but took the high road and learn't a good lesson and found out some people are not as honest as me. Ed
I can't believe this hasn't been resolved What is wrong with people these days
I think Chris B has a great point in sending out a registered letter...Then we'll go to
plan B
Plan B: Get a lawyer friend to send the certified letter
Pete
Yeah Pete I plan on sending a second one that way to the CEO. I feel bad as knowing what one hundred bucks can do in food for resident birds. I think in the end I will send a check my self as I always have found some way to donate to them.
Lou
Even though you were helping out a cause near and dear to you (and I commend you for that) I surely wouldn't have turned over any images without the agreement in writing/email.
It seems to me that you are contradicting yourself.
"Thanks Karl That Science reporter called me as I recall about three in the afternoon and demanding I get right with it as they were promised from the DEC full cooperation and I in all the years doing volunteer work for then would never let them down. I have donated more photos of eagles doing all that eagles do to them for education and I got gas money from them for my work and you know I would do it anyway even with out gas money. I am doing it now with the Mass Audubon and the osprey and I donate all photos for their use in their publications and I get what I deserve and that's satisfaction of telling someone that needs to know with a photo."
Sounds like they told the NYTimes you would do whatever they needed.
I may do volunteer work, but that doesn't mean I know an Eagle from a Raven (hyperbole, I could tell the difference) because I don't do wildlife, nor care to. I stumbled into this thread from it being on the front page and I offered my input. It's obviously not something you want to hear and I'm getting bashed for it.
The fact is, you made a mistake from my viewpoint. You should have gotten something faxed to you on paper (they would have done it if they really wanted your photos) and sure they should pay you anyway. Keyword being should, doesn't mean they will unless you take the appropriate actions.
You don't do work and tell someone else to pay someone else. In the real world it just doesn't work like that. Start sending invoices in your name to the New York Times. Call until you can talk to someone on the phone. EMAILS DO NOT WORK! That's the problem with this new age, go for the confrontation. People can think and make up replies while sitting at a computer, they can't on the phone. Or they can say "We didn't reply because we never got it." If you want you money, then take a mature, serious way of handling it. Print out the emails you have sent and put them in a package and ship it off to them with a new letter from a lawyer! Get a return receipt and call them up and talk to whoever received it!
What is wrong with people these days