BTW, the odds are quite interesting if you plan to take 5D2's to the antarctic. The important question is how many 5D's do you need to take to get a certain likelihood of at least one camera continuing to work. It goes like this:
2 cameras: 93.75%
3 cameras: 98.4%
4 cameras: 99.6%
5 cameras: 99.9%
Perhaps this is all part of Canon marketing's cunning plan to sell more bodies. This has serious implications for me as a wedding photographer. I have bought 2 5D2's, but I can't afford to take a 1% chance that I will have to stop working altogether at a wedding. As a result, I will almost certainly have to buy a 450D and possibly a third 5D2, although at that rate of expenditure just to get some security that you can complete the job, the D700 is looking all the more attractive.
The 5D is not at all sealed and I've shot in very heavy rain, with grips and without any problems though after 4 years of it both of my 5D's have an intermittent problem with the LCD that might be connected. I may even bother getting it fixed one day! I've shot with the Kata rain cover for hours in the rain with no problem whatsoever. Both of my 5D's are serious beaters, have had more knocks than any camera should have had to put up with, in other words, 4 years of a pro shooting enviroment.
It does sound like the mkII has been built too fast and too cheaply. Canon realised that serious shooters aside, what the regular potential client wanted in a mkII was Megapixels! They were right, for all the rather over optimistic promises re noise, AF and now weather sealing, this camera seems to be nothing more than a 5D with too many megapixels of which a fraction of the buyers actually need. That hasn't of course stopped them still being out of stock in many places. Personally I'm very happy with my decision to stick with my 5D's. Beautiful huge and sharp pixels, beautiful tonality (for a DSLR) and since I got the AF zeroed in, reliable day to day results with the emphasis on 'reliable'. After 4 years and around 100,000 frames per body I haven't fallen in love with it (it's just a tool) but I go into a job without having to worry and knowing I will have incredible results and that's good enough for me.
Yes it has its drawbacks, the AF is center point only. The screen is useless outdoors, there are a few more niggles, but what it does I can rely on it to do well.
BTW Brainiac, I still have a 20D as third backup, even with the most reliable cameras, if you need to work with two bodies then if one goes down you need a third. Actually I bought it for peanuts after a wedding when both 5D's failed on me (actually it was the flashes, the 580 mkII problem but I didn't know that till afterwards). You can never be too sure when shooting one time events, got 3 flashes as well, heck I've got a spare pair of trousers incase mine get ripped, don't laugh, happened at a wedding once due to a nail in the wrong place...
As a scientist, I agree with Jame's post that 6/26 is statistically significant. For the others who are saying why bring a 5DII to such a place, if you read the article, the weather conditions were not that extreme. I took my 5DII to NYC and Boston in cold and rain. I made sure not to let it get very wet but it certainly went through some extreme cold weather. I had no problems. One interesting point in the article was that many or most of the failures were with 5DIIs with a grip attached. I would be curious how many of the failures were due to a grip camera problem?
SHVv wrote:
"As you've probably heard there were a number of 5D mk II cameras that failed on the Antarctic trip (6 of the 26 on the trip or 23%). My wife and I accounted for 2 of those. Both failed within minutes of each other during a shore outing with light rain. Both were protected by Kata rain covers and both exhibited the same problem - the shutter release button appeared to be shorted out. When the camera was turned on it would immediately take a picture (or multiple if the camera was in continuous shooting mode). At least some of the other failures on the trip were similar.
When we got back to the ship we dried them out and they eventually (mostly) revived. My wife's acted up again as soon as it was even slightly humid and stopped working altogether in Buenos Aires at +35C, humid but sunny weather.
For a camera that is advertised as having "improved weather resistance" I can't say I'm impressed, and I'm even less so knowing that no other cameras had problems even though many of them were completely unprotected.
Both cameras were sent to Canon for repair and I received a call today saying there was corrosion at or near the shutter release and offering me the following options:
1) Have them fixed as best they could (free of charge) but without further warranty in case of internal failure
2) Trade them for new cameras at 50% off the retail price
I'm not convinced that this camera doesn't have serious problems with moisture compared to similar cameras from other manufacturers and I'm also not convinced I can trust the camera to work in anything other than warm dry air.
I like the camera otherwise and the images it produces are great, but if you can't rely on it, I don't know how useful it is. Make sure you carry a backup if there is any chance there could be moisture. I don't know if I'd buy it again given our experience."
The lack of common sense among camera users (note that I don't refer to them as photographers) is so rampant that I'm beginning to think that camera users are responsible for the phrase, "Stupid people are dumb."
Can you imagine if I wore a $3000 Armani suit to go snowboarding and complained that it that it failed to keep the water out, soaked my skin, resulted in hypothermia and shut my body down. Damn that Armani brand! They just don't know how to make a frickin' suit!
I've carried my old 5d through a typoon in China. I knew it wasn't waterproof, so I wrapped it the best I could and hoped for the best knowing that I was taking a huge risk, but the payoff was worth it (sold a lot of those photos on Getty). If the camera had failed, I wouldn't have damned Canon.
Guys - focus. It's not weather-proof. The 5d II isn't meant for trudging through the rain, desert, humidity or extreme conditions. If you want to do that, they make cameras for that. Don't bring a 5d II into extreme conditions and complain that it doesn't do what it's not meant to. It would seem that common sense is really not all that common. At least among camera users.
I am in California. We are real wimps when it comes to cold. People put on parksa around here when it gets below 50.
Sure freezing is cold, but Antarctica in winter approaches -100.
On the fixes. as I understand it Canon gave him two choices 1) fix the cameras but essentially void the warranty on anything related to corrosion in the future, 2) 50% off on a replacement camera. This information is from postings on the LL forums.
For whatever it is worth, I took my 1Ds MarkII and Rebel XT to Antarctica (yes, in the summer down there) three years ago and they both performed just fine.
There does appear to be a disconcertingly high amount of problems reported with the 5DMkII. I've been using the original for a couple of years without a hitch. If they'd just added a self-cleaning sensor (seems to work great on my XSi), modestly increased resolution (15-16MP) and put in a somewhat better focusing system, I'd probably have bought one by now. As it is, I'll wait. I have way too many lenses to switch to something other than Canon.
Maybe they'll have the bugs worked out by spring rebate time.
gourdhead wrote:
I think this is the new math curriculum they are teaching my children at school now
hmmmm
i think what is actually needed is a curriculum in recognizing humor and not taking everything literally
somehow i'm actually not thinking the poster was being serious....
RobertLynn wrote:
Some Canon fanboy will find a way for Canon's crap QC and recent failures to be acceptable. Before I get flamed, look at my profile and think of the crap I've went through in my relatively short time with Canon dSLR systems.
i have to say over the years, i have found canon has often had some of the best camera and video camera technology but has also tended to get sloppy. I had horrible failures with canon video cameras, in particular.
i even noticed on teh 20D, my first copy (from very early batch) had slightly more solid construction than a late copy (where they seemed to have cheapened up the look of a few of the covers and screws and stuff)
Daan B wrote:
Ruy, just make a call to CPS NL to here the kind of feedback they are receiving from the field regarding 5D2 built quality issues. Higher than the usual amount of complaints...
BTW Do you already have a 5D2?
Higher amount, come on figures!
First I'll concede that there have probably been corners cut in an attempt to produce enough bodies to answer the high demand. That's why I decided up front to never buy Canon until at least 6 months into the production run.
Secondly I'm satisfied with my 5D and the lack of significant improvement in the AF department sort of put it on a back burner. Am I not allowed to enter the debate since I don't own the body or have any current plans of buying one soon.
Tell you Daan, I'd have no qualms about buying one based on quality in 4 months from now.
But I'd rather stick with my old 5D and get a 1D3 (or 4) or the 5D2 follow up than what the 5D2 offers today.
That explain my position clearly enough?
Ruy
PS. besides, the 50/1.2 is winking at me as well, but I've been resisting that urge for more than a year
PParker wrote:
I have to agree with Doug Vann. After shooting outside for a period of time in cold weather, you need to put your camera in a camera bag, take it inside and unzip it, and let the bag an its contents come to room temp.
I shot for a week with a 5 D in temps where the warmest days were -8 F and the colder days down to -23 F. I also had chemical hand warmers in both of my side pockets where I would switch out batteries intermittently to warm them up.
Taking a very cold camera into a warm room without having a method to warm the camera body up slowly is a recipe for creating condensation within the camera body and future failure of the system ....Show more →
what do you mean take the bag inside and unzip it?
doesn't that defeat the purpose the bag, to trap it with outside air (colder and holds less moisture)??
Well that's true...I bought my 10-22mm, it wasn't sharp for me, send it to Canon, they've fixed it though so I agree QC is not perfect.
RobertLynn wrote:
Some Canon fanboy will find a way for Canon's crap QC and recent failures to be acceptable. Before I get flamed, look at my profile and think of the crap I've went through in my relatively short time with Canon dSLR systems.
RobertLynn wrote:
The downside I guess is, if I move south to go to a warmer place, then all sorts of things I don't like are there. like more insects, tornadoes, earthquakes, hurricanes...So maybe I'll just stay in PA where it's just cold.
haha, reminds me the first time i stepped outside in NC.
the SIZE of the insects!
6-10' spider webs between the trees spun by bulbous 2" long bodies.
and everything from flies to wasps seemed to be about 30% larger than proper.
oh sweet I just got an awesome shot of a turkey vulture soaring over!
wait. wait. is it this a dragonfly?
that said, for whatever reason, the mosquitoes have not been bad at all, hardly any bites, while up in NJ and PA.... as they say the mosquito is the NJ state bird! and the horse and deer flies are the state mammals!
and socal has hardly any biting flies or mosquitoes either.
and worst of the worst is alaska at the wrong time of year for mosquitoes or the adirondacks in springfor black flies. good god!! an african elephant could be blood let within seconds.
With the creaks in CF door & battery compartment and this report from Antarctica, it appears Canon is cheapening the manufacturing process on the 5DMkII.
Hopefully, they've taken a page from Toyota who's quality suffered for the 2007 models, but quickly brought it back up for 2008 & 2009.
skibum5 wrote:
what do you mean take the bag inside and unzip it?
doesn't that defeat the purpose the bag, to trap it with outside air (colder and holds less moisture)??
I agree - keep the bag closed until the camera is warmed up, and don't forget you need to leave time for the internals to warm up, not just the exterior of the camera.
I've shot with the Kata rain cover for hours in the rain with no problem whatsoever. Both of my 5D's are serious beaters, have had more knocks than any camera should have had to put up with, in other words, 4 years of a pro shooting enviroment.
