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Archive 20095D2 low ISO poor v 1Ds3
p.17 #15D2 low ISO poor v 1Ds3
htbyron wrote:
Thank goodness brainiac has thick skin. I have a 5DII and love it -- it was a huge step up from the 20D, and good value for money. But I am always grateful for those who help me identify limitations of the equipment I use. I frequently rely on Richard's judgment and experience, and we all have benefited enormously from his contributions to the back-end of the forum software. Give the guy a break, and consider the source.
+1
Thank goodness brainiac has thick skin. I have a 5DII and love it -- it was a huge step up from the 20D, and good value for money. But I am always grateful for those who help me identify limitations of the equipment I use. I frequently rely on Richard's judgment and experience, and we all have benefited enormously from his contributions to the back-end of the forum software. Give the guy a break, and consider the source.
+1
Feb 11, 2009 at 02:32 PM
p.17 #25D2 low ISO poor v 1Ds3
Andrew Gough wrote:
+1
+2. And 3.
There aren't many people here who put up more helpful samples than he does - D700 vs 1Ds3, XSi at 6400 - and who clearly have the professional chops to back up what they say (check his website)....
...and here he sticks his neck out, only to have some newbies drive by and say things like, "Gee, are you sure you know what you're talking about? I never have that problem when I shoot on the Green-Square setting."
htbyron wrote
Thank goodness brainiac has thick skin. I frequently rely on Richard's judgment and experience, and we all have benefited enormously from his contributions to the back-end of the forum software. Give the guy a break, and consider the source.+2. And 3.
There aren't many people here who put up more helpful samples than he does - D700 vs 1Ds3, XSi at 6400 - and who clearly have the professional chops to back up what they say (check his website)....
...and here he sticks his neck out, only to have some newbies drive by and say things like, "Gee, are you sure you know what you're talking about? I never have that problem when I shoot on the Green-Square setting."
Feb 11, 2009 at 04:18 PM
p.17 #35D2 low ISO poor v 1Ds3
Thanks for the moral support fellas.
I've just been taking some shots with my Contax 21 before selling it (offers welcome) and here's a good example of how I'm not getting quite as much dynamic range out of the 5D2 at 100 iso as I used to get from the 1Ds3. Here's the shot, a tricky one considering the unmanageable highlights. Normally I would underxpose the 1Ds3 and push the shadows by a couple of stops, and possibly even apply a bit of NR to the rescued shadows. The 5D2 is producing quite cross-hatched and noisy shadows with only a 1.5 stop shadow push:
http://cyberphotographer.com/5d2/contax21/cheynewalksnow_lowrez.jpg
A crop showing the noise and dearth of information in the tree trunk compared to what I have grown used to from the 1Ds3:
http://cyberphotographer.com/5d2/contax21/cheynewalksnow_crop1.jpg
The Contax 21 is as stunning as ever on the 5D2. This file was unsharpened in DPP! Here's the whole file but it's 13Mbytes so please don't kill my server unless you are really interested:
http://cyberphotographer.com/5d2/contax21/cheynewalksnow.jpg
I've just been taking some shots with my Contax 21 before selling it (offers welcome) and here's a good example of how I'm not getting quite as much dynamic range out of the 5D2 at 100 iso as I used to get from the 1Ds3. Here's the shot, a tricky one considering the unmanageable highlights. Normally I would underxpose the 1Ds3 and push the shadows by a couple of stops, and possibly even apply a bit of NR to the rescued shadows. The 5D2 is producing quite cross-hatched and noisy shadows with only a 1.5 stop shadow push:
http://cyberphotographer.com/5d2/contax21/cheynewalksnow_lowrez.jpg
A crop showing the noise and dearth of information in the tree trunk compared to what I have grown used to from the 1Ds3:
http://cyberphotographer.com/5d2/contax21/cheynewalksnow_crop1.jpg
The Contax 21 is as stunning as ever on the 5D2. This file was unsharpened in DPP! Here's the whole file but it's 13Mbytes so please don't kill my server unless you are really interested:
http://cyberphotographer.com/5d2/contax21/cheynewalksnow.jpg
Feb 11, 2009 at 06:04 PM
p.17 #45D2 low ISO poor v 1Ds3
I am starting to think that the 5D2 has a reduced dynamic range compared to the 1Ds3. I'll know on Friday as I might have both by then. Still a little unsure on the 5D2 but I need a backup... 
Feb 12, 2009 at 12:15 AM
p.17 #55D2 low ISO poor v 1Ds3
Andrew Gough wrote:
I am starting to think that the 5D2 has a reduced dynamic range compared to the 1Ds3. I'll know on Friday as I might have both by then. Still a little unsure on the 5D2 but I need a backup...
Don't do it!!!
resist the temptation 
I am starting to think that the 5D2 has a reduced dynamic range compared to the 1Ds3. I'll know on Friday as I might have both by then. Still a little unsure on the 5D2 but I need a backup...
Don't do it!!!
resist the temptation Feb 12, 2009 at 02:25 AM
p.17 #65D2 low ISO poor v 1Ds3
brainiac wrote:
http://cyberphotographer.com/5d2/contax21/cheynewalksnow_lowrez.jpg
Why does the snow look purple
http://cyberphotographer.com/5d2/contax21/cheynewalksnow_lowrez.jpg
Why does the snow look purple
Feb 12, 2009 at 02:26 AM
Andi Dietrich
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p.17 #75D2 low ISO poor v 1Ds3
snow usualy picks up the color of the sky
Feb 12, 2009 at 02:53 AM
p.17 #85D2 low ISO poor v 1Ds3
i would hope that an $8K camera would "beat" a $2600 camera. i'm not going to spend an extra $5K+ for weather sealing and an af module...
i'm not sure what these comparisons are doing, other than stating the obvious. they can market speak all they want ("the best image quality from a canon DSLR to date..."), but canon isn't going to give us 1Ds3 IQ at a $5K discount.
so let's not get into egotistical pi$$ing matches over it. kumbaya, people.
i'm not sure what these comparisons are doing, other than stating the obvious. they can market speak all they want ("the best image quality from a canon DSLR to date..."), but canon isn't going to give us 1Ds3 IQ at a $5K discount.
so let's not get into egotistical pi$$ing matches over it. kumbaya, people.
Feb 12, 2009 at 04:12 AM
p.17 #95D2 low ISO poor v 1Ds3
While I agree that 'you get what you pay for' I've had a look at the jpeg and these is some strange blotchy noise in the red channel - it could be possible that the camera is defective and it may be worth returning it for another sample.
Feb 12, 2009 at 05:47 AM
p.17 #105D2 low ISO poor v 1Ds3
shirozina wrote:
While I agree that 'you get what you pay for' I've had a look at the jpeg and these is some strange blotchy noise in the red channel - it could be possible that the camera is defective and it may be worth returning it for another sample.
+1
While I agree that 'you get what you pay for' I've had a look at the jpeg and these is some strange blotchy noise in the red channel - it could be possible that the camera is defective and it may be worth returning it for another sample.
+1
Feb 12, 2009 at 05:49 AM
p.17 #115D2 low ISO poor v 1Ds3
At last, a thread to make me pleased I bought a 1Ds3 
David
David
Feb 12, 2009 at 06:06 AM
Andi Dietrich
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p.17 #125D2 low ISO poor v 1Ds3
abam wrote:
... but canon isn't going to give us 1Ds3 IQ at a $5K discount.
Andrew Gough wrote:
I am starting to think that the 5D2 has a reduced dynamic range compared to the 1Ds3. I'll know on Friday as I might have both by then. Still a little unsure on the 5D2 but I need a backup...
Yes and no,
if you have a look at imaging-resource you can see that 5Dii betters all the 20+MP cameras at high ISO including the 1ds3. They also seem to think that the camera has the same DR. This thread has put the finger on a point were the MKII does not better the 1ds3, nothing more.
I hope future Canon bodies will improve DR at all ISO, for now though, I think the new 5d offers so much, I dont see why the average shooter would invest in a 1dsIII
... but canon isn't going to give us 1Ds3 IQ at a $5K discount.
Andrew Gough wrote:
I am starting to think that the 5D2 has a reduced dynamic range compared to the 1Ds3. I'll know on Friday as I might have both by then. Still a little unsure on the 5D2 but I need a backup...
Yes and no,
if you have a look at imaging-resource you can see that 5Dii betters all the 20+MP cameras at high ISO including the 1ds3. They also seem to think that the camera has the same DR. This thread has put the finger on a point were the MKII does not better the 1ds3, nothing more.
I hope future Canon bodies will improve DR at all ISO, for now though, I think the new 5d offers so much, I dont see why the average shooter would invest in a 1dsIII
Feb 12, 2009 at 06:45 AM
p.17 #135D2 low ISO poor v 1Ds3
dhphoto wrote:
At last, a thread to make me pleased I bought a 1Ds3
David
At last, a thread to make me pleased I bought a 1Ds3
David
Feb 12, 2009 at 07:15 AM
p.17 #145D2 low ISO poor v 1Ds3
Andi Dietrich wrote:
Yes and no,
if you have a look at imaging-resource you can see that 5Dii betters all the 20+MP cameras at high ISO including the 1ds3. They also seem to think that the camera has the same DR. This thread has put the finger on a point were the MKII does not better the 1ds3, nothing more.
I hope future Canon bodies will improve DR at all ISO, for now though, I think the new 5d offers so much, I dont see why the average shooter would invest in a 1dsIII I never shoot high ISO and this low ISO noise is an important factor for me - fingers crossed it's just a bad sample of a body that Richard has ( and that he will be able to exchange it of coarse)
abam wrote
... but canon isn't going to give us 1Ds3 IQ at a $5K discount.Andrew Gough wrote
I am starting to think that the 5D2 has a reduced dynamic range compared to the 1Ds3. I'll know on Friday as I might have both by then. Still a little unsure on the 5D2 but I need a backup...if you have a look at imaging-resource you can see that 5Dii betters all the 20+MP cameras at high ISO including the 1ds3. They also seem to think that the camera has the same DR. This thread has put the finger on a point were the MKII does not better the 1ds3, nothing more.
I hope future Canon bodies will improve DR at all ISO, for now though, I think the new 5d offers so much, I dont see why the average shooter would invest in a 1dsIII I never shoot high ISO and this low ISO noise is an important factor for me - fingers crossed it's just a bad sample of a body that Richard has ( and that he will be able to exchange it of coarse)
Feb 12, 2009 at 08:50 AM
p.17 #155D2 low ISO poor v 1Ds3
Is it just me, or are there even more 'issues' of noise, build quality, quality control and other problems than usual with the 5D2?
All new models seem to get their fair share but the 5D2 seems to be taking a beating lately
David
All new models seem to get their fair share but the 5D2 seems to be taking a beating lately
David
Feb 12, 2009 at 09:06 AM
p.17 #165D2 low ISO poor v 1Ds3
My 2nd 5D2 will be along soon, so as soon as I have that I will be able to compare and work out if this body is sub-par. I agree with the comments about high iso: the 5D2 seems at least as good at iso 3200, 6400 and 12800 as my 1Ds3 was. The 5D2 simply struggles slightly at isos 100 - 400.
Yes - the file I posted does seem to have blotchy red noise in shadows but I have had to apply a custom white balance and push it to try to control the highlights, which are out of reach anyway. I have applied NO NOISE REDUCTION. I do think that my 1Ds3 used to cope better in these circumstances.
But let's be clear - this is an example of pushing a camera to it's limits with difficult subject matter. In general the camera does extremely well.
Yes - the file I posted does seem to have blotchy red noise in shadows but I have had to apply a custom white balance and push it to try to control the highlights, which are out of reach anyway. I have applied NO NOISE REDUCTION. I do think that my 1Ds3 used to cope better in these circumstances.
But let's be clear - this is an example of pushing a camera to it's limits with difficult subject matter. In general the camera does extremely well.
Feb 12, 2009 at 09:21 AM
p.17 #175D2 low ISO poor v 1Ds3
dhphoto wrote:
Is it just me, or are there even more 'issues' of noise, build quality, quality control and other problems than usual with the 5D2?
All new models seem to get their fair share but the 5D2 seems to be taking a beating lately
David
I think that was always bound to come with the incredibly high expectations everyone had for this camera. It not only had some big shoes to fill but some proper competition this time round too. It was always going to be picked apart on any flaw or shortfall.
Is it just me, or are there even more 'issues' of noise, build quality, quality control and other problems than usual with the 5D2?
All new models seem to get their fair share but the 5D2 seems to be taking a beating lately
David
I think that was always bound to come with the incredibly high expectations everyone had for this camera. It not only had some big shoes to fill but some proper competition this time round too. It was always going to be picked apart on any flaw or shortfall.
Feb 12, 2009 at 09:40 AM
p.17 #185D2 low ISO poor v 1Ds3
AdrianRogers wrote:
All new models seem to get their fair share but the 5D2 seems to be taking a beating lately
DavidI think that was always bound to come with the incredibly high expectations everyone had for this camera. It not only had some big shoes to fill but some proper competition this time round too. It was always going to be picked apart on any flaw or shortfall.
Regarding low ISO performance you may have a point (unless this appears to be some sort of error as well)... But I do think customers may expect a 5D2 without missing or loose parts, creaking CF card doors and what not... Design flaws or features (depends on how you look at them) are not the same as QC issues.
Edited on Feb 12, 2009 at 09:56 AM · View previous versions
dhphoto wrote
Is it just me, or are there even more 'issues' of noise, build quality, quality control and other problems than usual with the 5D2?All new models seem to get their fair share but the 5D2 seems to be taking a beating lately
David
Regarding low ISO performance you may have a point (unless this appears to be some sort of error as well)... But I do think customers may expect a 5D2 without missing or loose parts, creaking CF card doors and what not... Design flaws or features (depends on how you look at them) are not the same as QC issues.
Edited on Feb 12, 2009 at 09:56 AM · View previous versions
Feb 12, 2009 at 09:56 AM
p.17 #195D2 low ISO poor v 1Ds3
AdrianRogers wrote:
I think that was always bound to come with the incredibly high expectations everyone had for this camera. It not only had some big shoes to fill but some proper competition this time round too. It was always going to be picked apart on any flaw or shortfall.
I agree, and let's not forget, the competition is the a900, which doesn't give you access to Canon's lens range, and lacks video if that matters to you. The 5D2 is a 21 megapixel small body camera with great high iso performance and video at a pretty reasonable price. It costs about the same as a Nikon D700. Take your pick, but don't underestimate 9 extra megapixels and video for the same price.
I think that was always bound to come with the incredibly high expectations everyone had for this camera. It not only had some big shoes to fill but some proper competition this time round too. It was always going to be picked apart on any flaw or shortfall.
I agree, and let's not forget, the competition is the a900, which doesn't give you access to Canon's lens range, and lacks video if that matters to you. The 5D2 is a 21 megapixel small body camera with great high iso performance and video at a pretty reasonable price. It costs about the same as a Nikon D700. Take your pick, but don't underestimate 9 extra megapixels and video for the same price.
Feb 12, 2009 at 09:56 AM
p.17 #205D2 low ISO poor v 1Ds3
Daan B wrote:
...creaking CF card doors and what not... Design flaws or features (depends on how you look at them) are not the same as QC issues.
Seems no different from my creaky 5D mk I in that regard, and people seem to have come to terms with the limitations of that, if you'll excuse the pun, nearly canonised camera. For the price of the original 5D you get a new one with 21 megapixels, higher iso, liveview, video, 3 C-modes, ALO, HTP, and a much better monitor. Take it or leave it.
Edited on Feb 12, 2009 at 10:01 AM · View previous versions
...creaking CF card doors and what not... Design flaws or features (depends on how you look at them) are not the same as QC issues.
Seems no different from my creaky 5D mk I in that regard, and people seem to have come to terms with the limitations of that, if you'll excuse the pun, nearly canonised camera. For the price of the original 5D you get a new one with 21 megapixels, higher iso, liveview, video, 3 C-modes, ALO, HTP, and a much better monitor. Take it or leave it.
Edited on Feb 12, 2009 at 10:01 AM · View previous versions
Feb 12, 2009 at 09:57 AM