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Archive 20095D2 low ISO poor v 1Ds3
p.16 #15D2 low ISO poor v 1Ds3
Just to reiterate an important point about my "disappointment"
- I am only disappointed because Canon has claimed that 5D2 image quality was every bit as good as the 1Ds3, when it isn't quite
- it is a minor issue; I just ordered a 2nd 5D2
Does anyone know how I can return to firmware 1.0.6? Is it available for download anywhere?
- I am only disappointed because Canon has claimed that 5D2 image quality was every bit as good as the 1Ds3, when it isn't quite
- it is a minor issue; I just ordered a 2nd 5D2
Does anyone know how I can return to firmware 1.0.6? Is it available for download anywhere?
Feb 10, 2009 at 09:50 AM
p.16 #25D2 low ISO poor v 1Ds3
Have you seen the D3x quality, I would have like to see the 100 ISO results though...
http://www.diglloyd.com/diglloyd/free/PushingTheBlacks/index.html
http://www.diglloyd.com/diglloyd/free/PushingTheBlacks/index.html
Feb 10, 2009 at 10:03 AM
p.16 #35D2 low ISO poor v 1Ds3
Andrew Gough wrote:
Seems like Richard is not the only one who is having problems with the 5D2
http://www.afashionshooter.com/2009/02/08/canon-5d2-so-long/
Looking at that article, I have to say that it is pretty questionable. One thing that made me very suspicious is that this guy claims that the art director looking over his shoulder at tethered captures complained about softness and he, the photographer didn't know how to fix it. There are so many reasons why he might get soft shots with a 21 megapixel camera, but ultimately they are all the photographer's fault. If your AF system is too badly calibrated for wide aperture use, get Canon to fix it. If your lenses aren't sharp enough, change them. If your manual focus methods aren't reliable enough, get a manual screen and practice until you know you can produce results that way. If your shutter speed is only 1/focal length, then increase it. If your DPP settings are killing sharpness, let's say by having NR on by default, learn how to fix the default settings. But one thing I can say for sure from my own experience: my 5D2 is every bit as sharp as my 1Ds3 was, and that means like a clean-shaving razor. This camera is as sharp as a D3x for a fraction of the cost.
He mentions widespread reports of cameras succumbing to moisture, but only references the LL article.
All considered, he just seems like a 1 series user who doesn't get what the 5D is: a lightweight camera with a superb sensor and few frills for a great price.
Seems like Richard is not the only one who is having problems with the 5D2
http://www.afashionshooter.com/2009/02/08/canon-5d2-so-long/
Looking at that article, I have to say that it is pretty questionable. One thing that made me very suspicious is that this guy claims that the art director looking over his shoulder at tethered captures complained about softness and he, the photographer didn't know how to fix it. There are so many reasons why he might get soft shots with a 21 megapixel camera, but ultimately they are all the photographer's fault. If your AF system is too badly calibrated for wide aperture use, get Canon to fix it. If your lenses aren't sharp enough, change them. If your manual focus methods aren't reliable enough, get a manual screen and practice until you know you can produce results that way. If your shutter speed is only 1/focal length, then increase it. If your DPP settings are killing sharpness, let's say by having NR on by default, learn how to fix the default settings. But one thing I can say for sure from my own experience: my 5D2 is every bit as sharp as my 1Ds3 was, and that means like a clean-shaving razor. This camera is as sharp as a D3x for a fraction of the cost.
He mentions widespread reports of cameras succumbing to moisture, but only references the LL article.
All considered, he just seems like a 1 series user who doesn't get what the 5D is: a lightweight camera with a superb sensor and few frills for a great price.
Feb 10, 2009 at 10:03 AM
p.16 #45D2 low ISO poor v 1Ds3
brainiac wrote:
http://www.afashionshooter.com/2009/02/08/canon-5d2-so-long/Looking at that article, I have to say that it is pretty questionable. One thing that made me very suspicious is that this guy claims that the art director looking over his shoulder at tethered captures complained about softness and he, the photographer didn't know how to fix it. There are so many reasons why he might get soft shots with a 21 megapixel camera, but ultimately they are all the photographer's fault. If your AF system is too badly calibrated for wide aperture use, get Canon to fix it. If your lenses aren't sharp enough, change them. If your...Show more →
+1 Something doesn't quite add up there. As Richard points out he makes the all too common fallacy of taking a single report and generalizing it to "widespread reports", something that happens all too often on the internet which leads to the hysteria. That to me greatly diminishes his credibility. I don't know the guy, he could be the most amazing fashion photographer on the planet.
Andrew Gough wrote
Seems like Richard is not the only one who is having problems with the 5D2http://www.afashionshooter.com/2009/02/08/canon-5d2-so-long/
+1 Something doesn't quite add up there. As Richard points out he makes the all too common fallacy of taking a single report and generalizing it to "widespread reports", something that happens all too often on the internet which leads to the hysteria. That to me greatly diminishes his credibility. I don't know the guy, he could be the most amazing fashion photographer on the planet.
Feb 10, 2009 at 10:13 AM
Andi Dietrich
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p.16 #55D2 low ISO poor v 1Ds3
Andrew Gough wrote:
Seems like Richard is not the only one who is having problems with the 5D2
http://www.afashionshooter.com/2009/02/08/canon-5d2-so-long/
That is a good example of what is going on on the internet. Anybody can repeat what he has read on various forums in his blog without adding any additional information. These people are just cultivating individual reports of camera failures. If we look through how many issues were really reported we could probably count less than 10 here on FM, much less than 10 on LL, and still less on Dpr. Including those from users who reported their problems on various forums.
I dont feel there is anything new or important in this blog
As for the low ISO banding, it may be a shortcoming of the camera, but then we should not forget that the camera also seems to have some qualities
Seems like Richard is not the only one who is having problems with the 5D2
http://www.afashionshooter.com/2009/02/08/canon-5d2-so-long/
That is a good example of what is going on on the internet. Anybody can repeat what he has read on various forums in his blog without adding any additional information. These people are just cultivating individual reports of camera failures. If we look through how many issues were really reported we could probably count less than 10 here on FM, much less than 10 on LL, and still less on Dpr. Including those from users who reported their problems on various forums.
I dont feel there is anything new or important in this blog
As for the low ISO banding, it may be a shortcoming of the camera, but then we should not forget that the camera also seems to have some qualities
Feb 10, 2009 at 10:15 AM
p.16 #65D2 low ISO poor v 1Ds3
Andrew Gough wrote:
Have you seen the D3x quality, I would have like to see the 100 ISO results though...
http://www.diglloyd.com/diglloyd/free/PushingTheBlacks/index.html
Note sure what you mean. The ISO 100 results are on that page. Also, if you subscribe to his DAP, you can download the NEFs and CR2s and pixel peep them to your heart's desire in the RAW converter of your choice. I haven't used a D3x yet but based on what I've seen so far, yes the low ISO image quality looks superb.
Have you seen the D3x quality, I would have like to see the 100 ISO results though...
http://www.diglloyd.com/diglloyd/free/PushingTheBlacks/index.html
Note sure what you mean. The ISO 100 results are on that page. Also, if you subscribe to his DAP, you can download the NEFs and CR2s and pixel peep them to your heart's desire in the RAW converter of your choice. I haven't used a D3x yet but based on what I've seen so far, yes the low ISO image quality looks superb.
Feb 10, 2009 at 10:15 AM
p.16 #75D2 low ISO poor v 1Ds3
The same guy wrote this shortly after he has got his second copy of the 5D2 (a month prior to the other linked article in which he "reviews" his second 5D2):
After some frustration and disappointment with the first one, I got a different 5D2 body a couple days ago, and strangely, the image quality is much improved over the first one - I think it may now rival my 1Ds3 image quality in some respects - including sharpness. Though the 1Ds3 images without a doubt still have more life and punch to them. They are just better, even with the same exact lenses. I will know more once I have done another proper shoot with models (next week.) Secondly, this newer body does not introduce banding when the Highlight Tone Priority...Show more →
I guess a lot can change in a month of shooting. What puzzles me is that he noticed a difference in IQ between two 5D2's he has used. Similair to my own experience.
What is even more puzzling, is that both his cams came with FW 1.0.6. So much for my theory that cams with FW 1.0.6 give better IQ. Maybe there is something else that would explain the difference in IQ between 5D2's... Maybe it has something to do with the sensors?
For the record, they each have the same firmware version (1.0.6) and the serial numbers are:
http://www.afashionshooter.com/2009/01/07/canon-5d-mark-ii-take-ii/
After some frustration and disappointment with the first one, I got a different 5D2 body a couple days ago, and strangely, the image quality is much improved over the first one - I think it may now rival my 1Ds3 image quality in some respects - including sharpness. Though the 1Ds3 images without a doubt still have more life and punch to them. They are just better, even with the same exact lenses. I will know more once I have done another proper shoot with models (next week.) Secondly, this newer body does not introduce banding when the Highlight Tone Priority...Show more →
I guess a lot can change in a month of shooting. What puzzles me is that he noticed a difference in IQ between two 5D2's he has used. Similair to my own experience.
What is even more puzzling, is that both his cams came with FW 1.0.6. So much for my theory that cams with FW 1.0.6 give better IQ. Maybe there is something else that would explain the difference in IQ between 5D2's... Maybe it has something to do with the sensors?
For the record, they each have the same firmware version (1.0.6) and the serial numbers are:
http://www.afashionshooter.com/2009/01/07/canon-5d-mark-ii-take-ii/
Feb 10, 2009 at 10:23 AM
p.16 #85D2 low ISO poor v 1Ds3
thedigitalbean wrote:
+1 Something doesn't quite add up there. As Richard points out he makes the all too common fallacy of taking a single report and generalizing it to "widespread reports", something that happens all too often on the internet which leads to the hysteria. That to me greatly diminishes his credibility.
Yeah, but to be fair to the guy, if he said it's the best camera ever, no one here would question his credibility. Funny how that works.
+1 Something doesn't quite add up there. As Richard points out he makes the all too common fallacy of taking a single report and generalizing it to "widespread reports", something that happens all too often on the internet which leads to the hysteria. That to me greatly diminishes his credibility.
Yeah, but to be fair to the guy, if he said it's the best camera ever, no one here would question his credibility. Funny how that works.
Feb 10, 2009 at 10:28 AM
p.16 #95D2 low ISO poor v 1Ds3
> Yeah, but to be fair to the guy, if he said it's the best camera ever, no one here would question his credibility. Funny how that works.
I think you would find that people would immediately mention the 1Ds3 and D3x. Go back to DPR.
I think you would find that people would immediately mention the 1Ds3 and D3x. Go back to DPR.
Feb 10, 2009 at 10:32 AM
p.16 #105D2 low ISO poor v 1Ds3
Perhaps its time for a refresher (at least I enjoyed re-reading it):
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/
Its amazing how many of these fallacies pop up in arguments all over the forums.
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/
Its amazing how many of these fallacies pop up in arguments all over the forums.
Feb 10, 2009 at 10:37 AM
Andi Dietrich
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p.16 #115D2 low ISO poor v 1Ds3
voka_gsw wrote:
Yeah, but to be fair to the guy, if he said it's the best camera ever, no one here would question his credibility. Funny how that works.
Nobody would read it
Yeah, but to be fair to the guy, if he said it's the best camera ever, no one here would question his credibility. Funny how that works.
Nobody would read it
Feb 10, 2009 at 10:52 AM
p.16 #125D2 low ISO poor v 1Ds3
bobbytan wrote:
Nikon has. It's called the D3X. Noise control is SUPERB. Neither the 5D II nor 1Ds III (or D3 for that matter) can match it for low-noise low-ISO performance.
Nor can they match it for price. $8k? OUCH! Oh and it BETTER be good at something for that price tag.
Nikon has. It's called the D3X. Noise control is SUPERB. Neither the 5D II nor 1Ds III (or D3 for that matter) can match it for low-noise low-ISO performance.
RalphJ wrote
But I do wish Nikon would introduce a D700x so we could see what kind of low-noise 20-plus-megapixel camera Nikon can make relatively affordably (Sony's not an option for me because I shoot mostly at ISO800-1600.)Nor can they match it for price. $8k? OUCH! Oh and it BETTER be good at something for that price tag.
Feb 10, 2009 at 12:12 PM
p.16 #135D2 low ISO poor v 1Ds3
Personally, I think that the D3x should have been compared to the 1Ds3 - apples to apples...
The 5D2 not really a fair comparison IMHO, fair compared to the Sony, but not the D3x.
It is obvious by now, that Canon reduced cost on the 5D2 sensor in various ways, hence the output differences that we are discussing on this thread. What they did to reduce cost I do not know, but I was told that the readout channels were reduced from 8 to 4 and that various other on chip processing changes were made. Be that what it may, other manufacturers do this all the time with different models etc... Porsche springs to mind
The 5D2 not really a fair comparison IMHO, fair compared to the Sony, but not the D3x.
It is obvious by now, that Canon reduced cost on the 5D2 sensor in various ways, hence the output differences that we are discussing on this thread. What they did to reduce cost I do not know, but I was told that the readout channels were reduced from 8 to 4 and that various other on chip processing changes were made. Be that what it may, other manufacturers do this all the time with different models etc... Porsche springs to mind
Feb 10, 2009 at 12:27 PM
p.16 #145D2 low ISO poor v 1Ds3
ChrisDM
"Take a picture. Print, and enjoy. End of story.... If the image quality of the 5D2 isn't good enough for you then you need to look at $40k digital medium format rigs. Seriously. And the fact that we can get IQ like this for less than $3k? Awesome. And if you have to go looking for problems in the shadows of the corners of your prints because somebody on this forum told you to, then you've spent waaaay too much time on this forum and not nearly enough time out taking photographs. The 5D2 is a remarkable value, although of course it isn't perfect. There isn't a perfect camera for everybody for all situations. Now go out and enjoy the art of photography!"
Now there's no need to get your knickers in a twist. For the record I had a 5D2 with the black dot problem. Canon fixed this, and I am pleased with the performance of my camera. But if I read about an issue with a camera I own, its not unreasonable to check it out IMHO. Seems to me that everyone who reads and posts on FM could be criticised for sitting at the computer and not being out taking photographs at that precise moment, so don't pick on me.
"Take a picture. Print, and enjoy. End of story.... If the image quality of the 5D2 isn't good enough for you then you need to look at $40k digital medium format rigs. Seriously. And the fact that we can get IQ like this for less than $3k? Awesome. And if you have to go looking for problems in the shadows of the corners of your prints because somebody on this forum told you to, then you've spent waaaay too much time on this forum and not nearly enough time out taking photographs. The 5D2 is a remarkable value, although of course it isn't perfect. There isn't a perfect camera for everybody for all situations. Now go out and enjoy the art of photography!"
Now there's no need to get your knickers in a twist. For the record I had a 5D2 with the black dot problem. Canon fixed this, and I am pleased with the performance of my camera. But if I read about an issue with a camera I own, its not unreasonable to check it out IMHO. Seems to me that everyone who reads and posts on FM could be criticised for sitting at the computer and not being out taking photographs at that precise moment, so don't pick on me.
Feb 11, 2009 at 08:38 AM
p.16 #155D2 low ISO poor v 1Ds3
Don't pick on me either. I have illustrated the difference between my 1Ds3 and 5D2 in the area of pushing shadows. It is a very minor difference, but one that some will be interested in. People are reacting as if I, or perhaps others, are putting this forward as a reason not to buy the camera. It is a very minor difference that you will probably notice if you go from 1Ds3 to 5D2. It's not a question of looking for problems, it's a question of noticing a difference in the camera in normal use, establishing the issue, and demonstrating it. This helps people make informed decisions. If people reading those posts set too much store by a minor limitation, let them. That doesn't mean that I shouldn't share my experiences here. There are plenty of people here who are capable of taking in the information and acknowledging the miniscule scale of the problem. Let people react hysterically, and ridicule them if you like but don't think you will be able to stifle perfectly reasonable conversation amongst those of us who do feel we benefit from these discussions and demonstrations.
I take far too many pictures, and FM is a good way of stemming the flow.
I take far too many pictures, and FM is a good way of stemming the flow.
Feb 11, 2009 at 08:59 AM
p.16 #165D2 low ISO poor v 1Ds3
brainiac wrote:
Don't pick on me either. I have illustrated the difference between my 1Ds3 and 5D2 in the area of pushing shadows. It is a very minor difference, but one that some will be interested in. People are reacting as if I, or perhaps others, are putting this forward as a reason not to buy the camera. It is a very minor difference that you will probably notice if you go from 1Ds3 to 5D2. It's not a question of looking for problems, it's a question of noticing a difference in the camera in normal use, establishing the issue, and demonstrating...Show more →
+1
Don't pick on me either. I have illustrated the difference between my 1Ds3 and 5D2 in the area of pushing shadows. It is a very minor difference, but one that some will be interested in. People are reacting as if I, or perhaps others, are putting this forward as a reason not to buy the camera. It is a very minor difference that you will probably notice if you go from 1Ds3 to 5D2. It's not a question of looking for problems, it's a question of noticing a difference in the camera in normal use, establishing the issue, and demonstrating...Show more →
+1
Feb 11, 2009 at 09:32 AM
p.16 #175D2 low ISO poor v 1Ds3
Thank goodness brainiac has thick skin. I have a 5DII and love it -- it was a huge step up from the 20D, and good value for money. But I am always grateful for those who help me identify limitations of the equipment I use. I frequently rely on Richard's judgment and experience, and we all have benefited enormously from his contributions to the back-end of the forum software. Give the guy a break, and consider the source.
Feb 11, 2009 at 12:31 PM
p.16 #185D2 low ISO poor v 1Ds3
Well, it's enough for me to not buy right now. I have a friend who's a veteran photographer who finally gave into the hype of the 5D2. I asked him what he thought, and after the initial wow factor wore off, he wrote me this:
"5d mk 2 is OK. 5D is still an awesome camera."
That's not saying he doesn't like it, but it's not living up to what he thought it was going to be. Fact is, there's still 5d's new on the market and I'm considering buying one of those so I have 3 bodies that should last a while. The drawing board still has sketching room, though.
"5d mk 2 is OK. 5D is still an awesome camera."
That's not saying he doesn't like it, but it's not living up to what he thought it was going to be. Fact is, there's still 5d's new on the market and I'm considering buying one of those so I have 3 bodies that should last a while. The drawing board still has sketching room, though.
Feb 11, 2009 at 12:34 PM
p.16 #195D2 low ISO poor v 1Ds3
cineski wrote:
Well, it's enough for me to not buy right now. I have a friend who's a veteran photographer who finally gave into the hype of the 5D2. I asked him what he thought, and after the initial wow factor wore off, he wrote me this:
"5d mk 2 is OK. 5D is still an awesome camera."
That's not saying he doesn't like it, but it's not living up to what he thought it was going to be. Fact is, there's still 5d's new on the market and I'm considering buying one of those so I have 3 bodies that should last...Show more →
I would differ. The 5DMK2 is a pretty big step up from the 5D in handling and IQ. The LCD alone is an amazing upgrade. Add to that LiveView and faster handling.
Well, it's enough for me to not buy right now. I have a friend who's a veteran photographer who finally gave into the hype of the 5D2. I asked him what he thought, and after the initial wow factor wore off, he wrote me this:
"5d mk 2 is OK. 5D is still an awesome camera."
That's not saying he doesn't like it, but it's not living up to what he thought it was going to be. Fact is, there's still 5d's new on the market and I'm considering buying one of those so I have 3 bodies that should last...Show more →
I would differ. The 5DMK2 is a pretty big step up from the 5D in handling and IQ. The LCD alone is an amazing upgrade. Add to that LiveView and faster handling.
Feb 11, 2009 at 12:42 PM
p.16 #205D2 low ISO poor v 1Ds3
I find the 5D2 with my 50/1,4 to be great fun... after hauling the 1D2 and 24-70 or 70-200 for a day.
IQ is marvellous and smaller size/weight makes the icing on the cake. Sure I do miss the handling and speedy AF sometimes, but thats why I kept my 1D2.
The 5D2 has not disappointed me in any way!
IQ is marvellous and smaller size/weight makes the icing on the cake. Sure I do miss the handling and speedy AF sometimes, but thats why I kept my 1D2.
The 5D2 has not disappointed me in any way!
Feb 11, 2009 at 01:31 PM