lorriman wrote:
It's a nice lens: but opinions vary as to its bokeh. Those shirts are possibly the worst I've seen: they are almost vibrating off their wearers. It's an eye-sore and distracting which is bad in a portrait. I usually wouldn't comment except for the absurdity. If you want a nice bokeh Rokkor I've seen some nice stuff from the Rokkor 50/1.7, but maybe it can't be converted, and f/1.7 isn't exotic.
I agree that the shirts are very busy looking. I would like to see a lens of this length that would turn them into buttery smooth bokeh. I have not seen a lens that could do that.
Jon Smith wrote:
Love that look, you're already making me hate myself for selling my 1.2... and it hasn't even left me yet!
Mine did not get much use earlier this year and for a day or two I planned to sell it. Instead I used it more and now I will never sell it. I actually got me another one for backup. A superb copy of the metal grip version. Almost mint. That has not been converted yet. I used it with a Minolta-Eos non-glass adapter in the last photo above.
Anden: fina bilder! Gott nytt kanske man kan passa på att säga.
I have some reservations as to the bokeh, as did Lorriman. I would not say it is hideous but the first shot (very nice and crisp) has a disturbing background when it comes to the bookshelf, I feel I am squinting/frowning when I am seeing it though it is easy to ease it up a bit in post pro. Also the shirts look overly busy - almost jagged - on the men too, which is a pity as the portraits are well executed and I like the casual look.
From what I have seen the Rokkor 58/1.2 does not handle out of focus parallel (but in Sweden we say parallell which would look even worse blurred by the Rokkor ) lines and square objects very well. I had a good deal going on a Rokkor but decided to pass because I don't care for the bokeh it produces under many circumstances. There are many lenses that handle that better - albeit without having the other character / qualities of the Rokkor 58/1.2 lens.
In short: great shots but bokeh is too busy for my liking, though I know the Rokkor can produce better bokeh in other circumstances.
Tackar! Jag får önska dig detsamma. Det verkar bli klart i natt så det blir nog några fyrverkeribilder...
As for the bokeh the same goes for this lens as well as any other lens: Any lens can produce good bokeh under the right circumstances and any lens produce really bad bokeh in hard situations. The 85L can look bad too...
But it might be so that the Rokkor does not handle lines and squares as good as the best.
I think you owe yourself to try the Rokkor. It has so many positive qualities and is still a bargain IMO.
Have a look at the german ebay. I got both my copies for around 180 euros. The first in 2007 and the second a couple of weeks ago.
Anden wrote:
I agree that the shirts are very busy looking. I would like to see a lens of this length that would turn them into buttery smooth bokeh. I have not seen a lens that could do that.
Anyone tried the Canon 55/1.2 FL on a similar target?
It would be interesting to see the Rokkor 58/1.2 with the same targets but stopped down a fraction. I would expect the Canon would need a bit of stopping down also, but my understanding is that the Canon was part of a series of 3 focal lengths designed with bokeh in mind (including the 135/2.5) so there is a better chance of it doing a good job.
Also I have seen a few example pics of the Rokkor with the flabbergasting presence of apparently theoretically perfect bokeh. And I've seen mention that there is quite some lens variation in so far as its bokeh is concerned. My suspicion is that there are some Rokkor 58/1.2 lenses out there that do great bokeh, but mostly not.
When we talk about a camera, high ISO performance is not the only criteria for being the best camera. There are AF, build, speed, Raw image quality, etc.
I think it goes same when we talk about a good quality lens.
I have a Russian lens, Volna-9, which produces the most buttery bokeh among the lenses I have, but I still choose Rokkor 58 as a better lens.
The Rokkor 58 is very diverse in its character. I'd say it's a mix of Contax and Leica.
I think anyone who has a good copy should know what I'm trying to say.
It's one lens that I'll never get rid of.
And I'm a guy who likes to sell/buy/switch try new lenses.
Dec 31, 2008 at 09:01 AM
Steve Spencer Online • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
lorriman replied:
Anyone tried the Canon 55/1.2 FL on a similar target?
It would be interesting to see the Rokkor 58/1.2 with the same targets but stopped down a fraction. I would expect the Canon would need a bit of stopping down also, but my understanding is that the Canon was part of a series of 3 focal lengths designed with bokeh in mind (including the 135/2.5) so there is a better chance of it doing a good job.
Also I have seen a few example pics of the Rokkor with the flabbergasting presence of apparently theoretically perfect bokeh. And I've seen mention that there is quite some lens variation in so far as its bokeh is concerned. My suspicion is that there are some Rokkor 58/1.2 lenses out there that do great bokeh, but mostly not....Show more →
I think the variation you are seeing is in aperture not so much in lenses. At least with my Rokkor the bokeh is very smooth at f/2 (which is the next click on the Rokkor aperture ring after 1.2 unless you add a click by hand). The bokeh at f/1.2 is much like what we see from Anden here. It can be very nice with some separation from the background and here it can have a very engaging character, but close OOF can be a little busy and distracting. When taking these aperture differences into account I have not seen major variations in lenses. If Anden had cared more about smoother bokeh and had the light then I suspect these shots would have had much smoother bokeh at f/2.
Anden: jag fryser så lätt så jag nöjer mig med att titta från den varma gosiga insidan av glaset. Men posta fina bilder du, förutsättningarna finns ikväll!
On topic: yes, in this focal length it is hard to find a better lens - the Rokkor is truly a unique lens. On my old Contax 50/1.4 I dare say it would have produced a more pleasing result with edges and lines wide open or on the same shots as with the guys' shirts but overall the bokeh out of the Rokkor is spectacular and while I find the bokeh on the Contax 50/1.4 pleasing it isn't spectacular in character in any way. Just nice. Nothing wrong which ever one prefers but for sheer uniqueness the Rokkor wins hands down.
Paul: interesting how it changes character with distance: the middle shot is (to me, that is) very unsightly and it is almost like a "circular disturbance" which also is seemingly clashing with the vignetting.
The last one looks great though! It is the same lens and aperture but at various distances?
Yes. All were taken with Rokkor 58/1.2 wide open.
Bokeh can be different according to different settings, i.e., distances from the subject and camera as well as the distances from the subject and background.
Like I said, this lens is peculiarly diverse in its character.
ulrikft wrote:
This just shows hos subjective these things are, the swirly distance-bokeh on the rokkor is something I love and feel give character to images
+1. I just love the oof area of the second photo. Like a painting.
A
Dec 31, 2008 at 11:17 AM
Steve Spencer Online • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
Steve Spencer wrote:
+ 2 It is this sort of oof rendering that makes the Rokkor unique.
- 1 (tongue in cheek ) This is to me what we in Sweden call Hötorgskonst.
I cannot help but dislike lenses that are inconsistent in bokeh characteristics I am not trying to bully Rokkor-fans (I love the more recent Minolta lenses) and regardless of bokeh preferences and lenses in our arsenals I wish you all a Hip Nouveau Year and may next year be fruitful with many a great shot from Alphas, Rokkors, Takumars, Hexanons, Leicas, CZ's, Voigtländers, Nikkors, Oly's and Eos. And all the others I forgot to mention.
Paul Yi wrote:
I have a Russian lens, Volna-9, which produces the most buttery bokeh among the lenses I have, but I still choose Rokkor 58 as a better lens.
The Rokkor 58 is very diverse in its character. I'd say it's a mix of Contax and Leica.
I think anyone who has a good copy should know what I'm trying to say.
Portraits tend to be subject oriented, so for me bokeh becomes a pre-requisite, before considering such things as colour, sharpness, distortion etc.
Anden wrote:
I agree that the shirts are very busy looking. I would like to see a lens of this length that would turn them into buttery smooth bokeh. I have not seen a lens that could do that.
A
Pentax K 50/1.2 does that better, and my $25 copy (yes, not a typo) is sharper wide open than any of my Rokkors. But it feels almost like a nifty-fifty... I can't explain it properly... It has good round bokeh, but it's so... expected... I like the fuzzier Rokkor bokeh and its contrast when stopped down...
IMHO the worst bokeh ever on a super-fast lens is the Zuiko 55/1.2 one which is the ONLY cause I sold mine to Ed Sawyer. When I can afford it, I'll have a Zuiko 50/1.2 to see how it compares.
