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Archive 2008 · Some better A900 samples

  
 
dcmiller
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p.9 #1 · Some better A900 samples


While it looks like a nice camera, how many people are going to move from Nikon or Canon? Not many. I really like the idea of Body IS on FF. Maybe in the long run this will pay off for Sony.
I'm surprised that the high ISO isn't better, considering how sophisticated Sony is at sensors and electronics.
I don't think Zeiss AF is going to be a selling point for many photogs. I don't find a reason to switch when looking at new production Zeiss compared to other modern Japanese lenses.



Oct 06, 2008 at 08:10 PM
Mel Gross
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p.9 #2 · Some better A900 samples


Tariq Gibran wrote:
Ergonomics is a big deal to me. One thing I know after holding the A700 is that it does not require the add on grip like the 5D/5DII does just to comfortably hold. I can not even use a 5D for any length of time without that grip. Add the required cost of that grip to the 5DII and the price of the Sony A900 is not so bad. There would also be a weight savings there. For my uses, the 100% prism and the fact that it is supposedly brighter and sharper than the Canon's(the 5D's prism is
...Show more

no doubt, ergonomics is important to everyone. We do have the Canon vs the Nikon camp there. Both companies do things just differently enough that many people won't use the "other" because of it. I don't know what problems you have with the grip, but I don't have it. The 5D is such a popular camera, that few seem to have a problem with it. I don't know too many people who have the grip, though some do. Some will require Sony's grip, I would imagine.

There is so little difference between 98% and 100% that I doubt you'd notice, 98% of the time, even when you think it matters. We're talking less than 0.36mm from each edge. Hardly meaningful. That's 0.1 inch from each edge of an 8 x 10 print. no one would notice. This difference is overblown.

As far as it's being brighter, I don't know. Maybe. Sharper? What do you mean? The 5D viewfinder is pretty sharp. You could get the fine matte screen if you want a sharper image than the standard.


High ISO is much better on the Canon than the Sony. I have no doubts about that. Not everyone needs it though. Those that really do need or want it will most likely not buy the Sony. Perhaps I'm the odd man out, but whenever I do need to use high ISO settings, those images don't usually require super high MP's or huge enlargements.
I believe the A900 is aimed at the user who would normally use a Medium format system and that's a market where high ISO performance is often not needed (Studio/controlled lighting situations and daylight). That's also a market
...Show more

If the user is looking for a medium replacement, then the 5D mkII would be better. The IQ of the mkII seems to be noticably better than th IQ of the A900. Certainly in as far as s/n and dynamic range go, that will be true. As far as sharpness goes, it looks to be true as well, going by the two field tests that are out. Both say the A900 smears fine details when compared to the 1Ds mkIII, which as we now know, has lower IQ than the 5D mkII.

So the Sony loses out there as well.

As I said, the few Zeiss lenses out there are pretty good. But I don't agree about Canons lenses. While not all are new, the ones that have been coming out for the last few years, as well as the reworked ones are pretty damn good. And there are many more of those good ones than Sony will have for years through Zeiss. And by the time Sony does, Canons line will have advanced by three lenses a year, possibly four, according to Canon.



You can bet there will be many more Zeiss AF lenses to come and I'm sure Sony view these lenses as their Golden Goose. If the majority of the Canon lenses were not so poor, I would not be in this forum to begin with. Canon has not addressed quality in their updated lenses to the extent most would have expected. I really have very little faith in them with regards to lenses. Nikon does seem to be coming out with some incredible lenses these days. A few of the older Minolta G lenses were the best available from anyone.


I expect Zeiss to produce a couple of new lenses a year for Sony, but it will take quite some time before they produce enough to compete with either Canon or Nikon.

I disagree about Canons new lenses, they're pretty good. And Zeiss is now adding their line to the EF mount.

A few of the "G' lenses. yes, a few. But none are designed for digital, and that's a problem. Digital lenses need orthogonal light rays to the sensor. Older lenses don't do that, except for long tele's (which is why there can be mirror cut-off with long tele's).



Oct 06, 2008 at 08:45 PM
Il Medico
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p.9 #3 · Some better A900 samples


All this talk about how much better the IQ of the 5DII is. How can you tell? There are little to no credible samples.

Absolutely ZERO comparisons in the same conditions with the same processing.

It's a know fact the Sony has a relatively poor jpeg engine and these jpegs are what are showing up.

I currently shoot with a 40D, 24-105 and 70-200/2.8. I'm seriously thinking of moving to a FF for a variety of reasons.

Unfortunately the 5DII does little to make me want one. The build/feel is not there. It's kind of slow feeling- the responsiveness apparently hasn't changed from the original.

5fps is 25% faster than 3.9%. 25% is kind of a lot- no?

The AF module on the A900 most likely will be much better than the 5D/5DII. The A700 focus tests are pretty good- equal to or better than the 30/40D in most reviews.

Inbody IS is much more important to me at this point than a so-so movie mode.

100% VF is important to me. Not having one is one of the more annoying aspects of the 30/40/50D.

Again, the jury is still out on the absolute IQ characteristics of the A900 and the 5DII.

As is stands I'd give up a stop or stop and a half for the better AF, better VF (not only 100% but bigger and brighter), better build and inbody IS.

A900 85/1.4 at ISO 1600 and 1/15 will beat the 5DMkII at 85/1.2 ISO 6400 at 1/80 (give or take).

I never thought I'd say I wanted a Sony DSLR, but I'm thinking really hard on it.

The only thing giving me pause is all the Canon gear being sold, driving prices down.

Gene

Oh, and Canon has yet to seem to be able to make a properly designed VG. They all suck for fit and function. I shoot a lot of vertical shots but shooting with the grip is worse than not having one- so I don't have or use one. Annoying aspect #2 of the 30/40/50D and since it's the same basic design for the 5D/DII the same holds true for that VG as well.

Edited on Oct 06, 2008 at 09:27 PM · View previous versions



Oct 06, 2008 at 09:22 PM
Lotusm50
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p.9 #4 · Some better A900 samples


Mel Gross wrote:
A few of the "G' lenses. yes, a few. But none are designed for digital, and that's a problem. Digital lenses need orthogonal light rays to the sensor. Older lenses don't do that, except for long tele's (which is why there can be mirror cut-off with long tele's).



There is so much about the last set of posts I would comment on but I just don't have the time. I sort of agree with a lot of what you're saying, Mel (but also sympathize with Tariq's points) , except the bit that I've quoted above. I used to think that was a valid point, but I'm not so sure any more. One can only look to the topic and postings in this forum to find contrary evidence. We see example after example after example of Zeiss, Leica, Olympus and other lenses NOT designed for digital doing quite well indeed with digital.




Oct 06, 2008 at 09:26 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.9 #5 · Some better A900 samples


Mel Gross wrote:
no doubt, ergonomics is important to everyone. We do have the Canon vs the Nikon camp there. Both companies do things just differently enough that many people won't use the "other" because of it. I don't know what problems you have with the grip, but I don't have it. The 5D is such a popular camera, that few seem to have a problem with it. I don't know too many people who have the grip, though some do. Some will require Sony's grip, I would imagine.


The issue with a gripless 5D is that there is no lower support from the pinky finger with someone with medium to large hands. This causes stress on the wrist and results in a more unstable hold. A camera with a slightly longer grip area, such as my old Fuji S2, Canon T90 and yes, the Sony A700/A900 bodies have longer grip area.


Mel Gross wrote:
There is so little difference between 98% and 100% that I doubt you'd notice, 98% of the time, even when you think it matters. We're talking less than 0.36mm from each edge. Hardly meaningful. That's 0.1 inch from each edge of an 8 x 10 print. no one would notice. This difference is overblown.

Well, of course its going to be very difficult for you to get even close to an 8x10 print from the proportion of FF 35mm If you are never using the whole frame anyway, no doubt you could care less about 90%, 100% or whatever Seriously though, whenever I'm doing critical work, it matters. That extra PP step of cropping something out of the final image that did not show up in the viewfinder can be an unnecessary pain, particularly if your editing through hundreds of images. YMMV


Mel Gross wrote:
As far as it's being brighter, I don't know. Maybe. Sharper? What do you mean? The 5D viewfinder is pretty sharp. You could get the fine matte screen if you want a sharper image than the standard.


I have tried different screens on the 5D. The issue can show up with trying to manually focus wide angle lenses. Add a 1.3 magnifier on the viewfinder of a 5D(I have tried many) as an aid and you will quickly find out that often the image is not actually easier to focus because the 5D viewing system does not deliver an extremely sharp image to begin with. It's not that the 5D image is bad or noticeably soft without a magnifier, just that it could be much more precise and sharper. It's something you might notice if you have looked through much better viewfinders.


Mel Gross wrote:
If the user is looking for a medium replacement, then the 5D mkII would be better. The IQ of the mkII seems to be noticably better than th IQ of the A900. Certainly in as far as s/n and dynamic range go, that will be true. As far as sharpness goes, it looks to be true as well, going by the two field tests that are out. Both say the A900 smears fine details when compared to the 1Ds mkIII, which as we now know, has lower IQ than the 5D mkII.

So the Sony loses out there as well.


That remains to be seen as I don't think these tests have shown the best from either the 5DII or A900. When both cameras are finally released, we should get a better idea as to their respective capabilities.


Mel Gross wrote:
Digital lenses need orthogonal light rays to the sensor. Older lenses don't do that, except for long tele's (which is why there can be mirror cut-off with long tele's).


Yes, that's why there are so many poorly performing classic wide angle lenses here on the alternative forum. Sounds like you bought into the marketing hype about "digital" lenses hook, line and sinker.



Oct 06, 2008 at 09:45 PM
Mel Gross
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p.9 #6 · Some better A900 samples




Sony's RAW images have problems. Who cares about their JPEGs?

You're moving from a 40D, and you're concerned about build/feel? If you owned a 5D, you wouldn't be talking about that, or responsiveness.

No! It's not a lot. If you can't get a shot with 4 fps, then it's not likely you will get it with 5.

Now who's making assumptions?

If you were here for a good deal of this thread, you would know that those of us who actually have this camera are almost all satisfied with the autofocus. The one on the mkII is slightly improved over that.

The 30/40D autofocus is not
...Show more

I'm not so sure you even own Canon equipment.







Oct 06, 2008 at 11:06 PM
Mel Gross
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p.9 #7 · Some better A900 samples


Lotusm50 wrote:
There is so much about the last set of posts I would comment on but I just don't have the time. I sort of agree with a lot of what you're saying, Mel (but also sympathize with Tariq's points) , except the bit that I've quoted above. I used to think that was a valid point, but I'm not so sure any more. One can only look to the topic and postings in this forum to find contrary evidence. We see example after example after example of Zeiss, Leica, Olympus and other lenses NOT designed for digital doing quite well
...Show more

Some of those lenses had designs that just happened to work with digital. Many more don't.

It's interesting, think about this;

A camera that has a deep body needs retrofocus wide angle lenses that are more retrofocal than bodies that have thinner bodies. now, that used to be something we never really thought about, except that retrofocus lenses have better vignetting characteristics. That's because the light pencils are more orthogonal. In other words, the light arrives at the film plane more parallel.

Well, that's what we need for digital! So the lenses that were more retrofocal do perform better on digital than those that are less so.

But, it was always considered to be a negative to have retrofocus lenses. That was one reason given for Leica's high quality wides. It's easier to design a lens that's not retrofocus.

But today, it doesn't matter much. With computer design, and the glass, aspheric elements, new materials for the mechanics etc., retrofocus lenses are just dandy, though bigger.

This is a conversation can go on for a while, as it's a very complex subject. I don't remember all the details as I took optics in physics a long time ago, but I try to follow lens design.

Canon has one of the thinner bodies, so it's older wides can have problems. They've been on an improvement program, but it takes time. The new version 24 1.4 is a good example. This is a much better lens than the old one. The 16 - 36 zoom is also much better than the old one.

All manufacturers need at least another two years to get another six to eight lenses up to snuff.

Canon has more lenses than most, so it gets criticized more.



Oct 06, 2008 at 11:20 PM
Mel Gross
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p.9 #8 · Some better A900 samples


Tariq Gibran wrote

no doubt, ergonomics is important to everyone. We do have the Canon vs the Nikon camp there. Both companies do things just differently enough that many people won't use the "other" because of it. I don't know what problems you have with the grip, but I don't have it. The 5D is such a popular camera, that few seem to have a problem with it. I don't know too many people who have the grip, though some do. Some will require Sony's grip, I would imagine.

The issue with a gripless 5D is that there is no lower support from
...Show more

I have medium hands with no problem. For large hands everyone will have problems with every camera.


Mel Gross wrote
There is so little difference between 98% and 100% that I doubt you'd notice, 98% of the time, even when you think it matters. We're talking less than 0.36mm from each edge. Hardly meaningful. That's 0.1 inch from each edge of an 8 x 10 print. no one would notice. This difference is overblown.

Well, of course its going to be very difficult for you to get even close to an 8x10 print from the proportion of FF 35mm If you are never using the whole frame anyway, no doubt you could care less about 90%, 100% or whatever Seriously
...Show more

Well, I thought you would understand without my having to say 8 x 12. so we're talking about 0.12 inch. If that's a problem for you then you would always have needed to use a Nikon, because for many years, only one or two Nikons ever had 100%. Most photographers didn't like the 100%, because then, image bits would not be seen because of the slide mount. It was only useful for negatives on a copy stand.


Mel Gross wrote
As far as it's being brighter, I don't know. Maybe. Sharper? What do you mean? The 5D viewfinder is pretty sharp. You could get the fine matte screen if you want a sharper image than the standard.

I have tried different screens on the 5D. The issue can show up with trying to manually focus wide angle lenses. Add a 1.3 magnifier on the viewfinder of a 5D(I have tried many) as an aid and you will quickly find out that often the image is not actually easier to focus because the 5D viewing system does not deliver an extremely
...Show more

I find that to be true of all D-SLRs. Actually, auto focus screwed up manual focus for all time.


Mel Gross wrote
If the user is looking for a medium replacement, then the 5D mkII would be better. The IQ of the mkII seems to be noticably better than th IQ of the A900. Certainly in as far as s/n and dynamic range go, that will be true. As far as sharpness goes, it looks to be true as well, going by the two field tests that are out. Both say the A900 smears fine details when compared to the 1Ds mkIII, which as we now know, has lower IQ than the 5D mkII.

So the Sony loses out there as well.

That
...Show more

I agree that we haven't seen the best. But it does look that way. I doubt that we have seen much better of the 5D mkII than of the A900. I don't expect the relative differences to change.


Mel Gross wrote
Digital lenses need orthogonal light rays to the sensor. Older lenses don't do that, except for long tele's (which is why there can be mirror cut-off with long tele's).

Yes, that's why there are so many poorly performing classic wide angle lenses here on the alternative forum. Sounds like you bought into the marketing hype about "digital" lenses hook, line and sinker.


There aren't "so many". There are a few. If you read my above post, you can see why.

Otherwise I recommend a book on optics.

There is a difference between hype, and reality. The reality is that the lens manufacturers understand this. The public does not.



Oct 06, 2008 at 11:32 PM
moire
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p.9 #9 · Some better A900 samples


Ah, some good ol' canonites infected the thread.

There are some people who have used for example D3 alot and A900 for at least a few weeks. I listen to those peoples thoughts about IQ over some blind canonite


A few more about the AF in field
http://www.photoclubalpha.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1070.

But we already know that A700 have excellent AF:
http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/25521-magazine-review-k20d-sdm-af-c-performance-vs-8-competitors-good-info.html

So A900 should be better even .



Oct 07, 2008 at 02:37 AM
cairynest
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p.9 #10 · Some better A900 samples


Don't these look wayyy too processed? or is it just me?


Oct 07, 2008 at 02:55 AM
edwardkaraa
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p.9 #11 · Some better A900 samples


This is a little OT, but from the above discussion, I was thinking that in addition to the MP war between manufacturers, we have now a noise war, since the Nikons and now Sony came into serious play. In the future, I can guarantee you that the trend will be noiseless smoothed out lifeless photos.


Oct 07, 2008 at 04:31 AM
Beni
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p.9 #12 · Some better A900 samples


Blind Canonites? I'm looking at the RAW files and they look to me like the 1Ds ORIGINAL! (which I owned) Not jpgs, RAW. I'm also hearing and reading reports from people who have shot with the camera (not advertising speils) that the AF is marginal on all but the latest lenses and even then not all of them. Feel free to believe how good the noise is from studio shots with good light (it isn't) and what someone says about shooting outdoors. Until I hear about canon or nikon speed AF in a dim studio or shooting in low light, I ain't going to believe it.


Oct 07, 2008 at 04:46 AM
ulrikft
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p.9 #13 · Some better A900 samples


It is not like the 5d mkII excells in the AF-depertment either? :P I think the nikon's (d3/d700) has the absolute upper hand when it comes to AF in this segment.


Oct 07, 2008 at 04:48 AM
moire
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p.9 #14 · Some better A900 samples


Well it all depends on what type of AF and object you are using.

A700 excells even D3 when tracking with the middle sensor only. But in genereal I would assume ( I have have no data to back this up) that the D3 with its 51 points would be better at tracking.



Oct 07, 2008 at 06:54 AM
Tariq Gibran
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p.9 #15 · Some better A900 samples


Mel Gross wrote:
But, it was always considered to be a negative to have retrofocus lenses. That was one reason given for Leica's high quality wides. It's easier to design a lens that's not retrofocus.




There are many optical issues with a non retrofocus design for wide angle lenses. Severe vignetting is one of the biggest which is why center filters are required for non retrofocus, large format lenses. Leica noticed the optical benefits of using retrofocus designs quite a while back which is why their modern wide angle lenses even for the M series are actually of a slight retrofocus design.



Oct 07, 2008 at 07:04 AM
Lotusm50
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p.9 #16 · Some better A900 samples


Mel Gross wrote:
Some of those lenses had designs that just happened to work with digital. Many more don't.



I don't know about this. Every old Zeiss Contax, Leica R, Olympus Zuiko, even old Takumar lenses appears to work quite well.

I understand the "theory" behind the argument, and have repeated it often my self. But in practice, the issue does not really seem to bind.

You can talk about the Canon 24/1.4L lens and it's recent upgrade, but does the original 24/1.4 actually perform any better on a film camera? Not really. Was the upgrade to the 24/1.4 made to make it more telecentric, or to just improve it's performance to make it more competitive? IMHO, it most probably the latter.




Oct 07, 2008 at 09:00 AM
Lotusm50
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p.9 #17 · Some better A900 samples


edwardkaraa wrote:
This is a little OT, but from the above discussion, I was thinking that in addition to the MP war between manufacturers, we have now a noise war, since the Nikons and now Sony came into serious play. In the future, I can guarantee you that the trend will be noiseless smoothed out lifeless photos.



At least we have moved past (or I think we have) having MP count as the only driver. That's positive. We realize that there isn't much between 21mp and 24mp, and that noise differences could matter more to IQ than these measly 3mp. I don't think that this will now result in "noiseless smoothed out lifeless photos". From the discussions, it is clear that people want to take control of noise reduction themselves and decide for themselves how much is appropriate (note that Sony relented and now allows users to turn off in-camera NR).




Oct 07, 2008 at 09:24 AM
Mel Gross
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p.9 #18 · Some better A900 samples


Tariq Gibran wrote:
There are many optical issues with a non retrofocus design for wide angle lenses. Severe vignetting is one of the biggest which is why center filters are required for non retrofocus, large format lenses. Leica noticed the optical benefits of using retrofocus designs quite a while back which is why their modern wide angle lenses even for the M series are actually of a slight retrofocus design.


Yes, for SLR's with a long backfocus.

But I meant the "M" series, which I though you understood me to mean. With those, it's different. Superior quality is easier with a pure wideangle design. Vignetting is mostly due to designing a compact lens. The new Zeiss 18/3/5 is a good example of this. It vignettes by 3 stops wide open, and even at 8, it's a good one stop plus off. Only at 11 does it look good, though, even there, vignetting is present.

The reason why Leica went to a slightly retrofocus design for some of their wider lenses for the "M" series had nothing to do with the quality issue.

It had to do with the swing down metering the cameras began to use. I had that M5 camera. The older wideangle lenses just barely made it.. Leica redesigned some of those lenses in their normal upgrade programs shortly after, to make newer cameras have better metering systems. More modern designs, such as the computer designs Canon first used with the new F1 series in 1969, aided new lens development. Older more manual methods could take several years to calculate new high grade lenses, and some areas of design couldn't be calculated at all in any reasonable time. Leica, as other top manufacturers, began to go to computer aided design as well. Better lenses resulted. Slightly retrofocus designs could easily be made that were better than the older designs, which also didn't take advantage of newer glasses and such.

Nowadays, with the amazingly high precision manufacturing techniques everyone can use, almost any design is possible. Internal element groups, moving in different directions at once are becoming common. Several groups can be moving at the same time by different amounts. This technique can actually change the type of lens design as focus progresses. A wide can become more retrofocus as it focusses out to infinity, and, of course, less so as focus moves closer—the best of both worlds.

In reality, today, a designer has so many tools at her disposal that almost any problem can be minimized. It just depends on what the price of the lens can be, and the size and weight it's thought people will accept.



Oct 07, 2008 at 02:22 PM
Mel Gross
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p.9 #19 · Some better A900 samples


Lotusm50 wrote:
I don't know about this. Every old Zeiss Contax, Leica R, Olympus Zuiko, even old Takumar lenses appears to work quite well.

I understand the "theory" behind the argument, and have repeated it often my self. But in practice, the issue does not really seem to bind.

You can talk about the Canon 24/1.4L lens and it's recent upgrade, but does the original 24/1.4 actually perform any better on a film camera? Not really. Was the upgrade to the 24/1.4 made to make it more telecentric, or to just improve it's performance to make it more competitive? IMHO, it most probably
...Show more

I don't know what you mean by "quite well". I'd bet that most of those lenses don't perform "quite well", but are usable. Also, the performance at the center can be just dandy. It's the oblique rays going to the edges and corners that are the problem. Many of those old lenses didn't do that well in the corners anyway. I suppose that from what you've said, you've used "every one" of those lenses on a digital camera. I've only uses some, and just on film.

Of course the new 24/1.4 is an upgrade in quality. Why else does any manufacturer redesign a lens? Are you saying that you had the old 24/1.4, and used it on film and on digital? I've only used it on digital, and the corners are soft, while the center is tack sharp. Too much curvature of field. But the curvature affects digital much more than it does film.

Most people don't think about that. No matter how tightly film is held in the gate, there is curvature. The center is further out than the sides. The lens curvature is therefor compensated for somewhat by the curvature in the film. Manufacturers don't always like to talk about that, but often, lenses were not made to project upon an entirely flat field for two reasons. The first is that it's hard. two is that as I just mentioned, the curvature is ameliorated by the film itself.

Now comes digital, with its perfectly flat film plane. Suddenly, some lenses that were designed for a slightly curved film plane are really soft at the edges and corners. The problem is worse with wides than tele's.

Also, falloff can be worse with wides, because of the way film works when compared to sensors, with their fixed sites, and lenses. That's why retrofocus wides often do better on digital than regular wides regardless of theoretical perfection. It all comes down to how parallel the light is hitting the outer sensing sites and lenses. The more parallel the better.

This isn't, as a few think, hype. It's a large, known problem.

The fact that some older lenses can "pass the test" doesn't mean that as a group, shorter old lenses will all be just fine. Most aren't. It's the luck of the draw. Certain old designs work quite well, within the limitations of the old glasses and such used, and others fail miserably.

Companies were hesitant to upgrade lens lines while so many were still shooting film. No one wants to buy a new lens, and find it's worse than the old one. But, as fewer do shoot film, the sensibility of those film shooters are increasingly being ignored for the reality of the digital world.



Oct 07, 2008 at 02:46 PM
Il Medico
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p.9 #20 · Some better A900 samples


Wow! Canon fanboy got up on the wrong side of the crib today!


Mel Gross wrote:
All this talk about how much better the IQ of the 5DII is. How can you tell? There are little to no credible samples.

Absolutely ZERO comparisons in the same conditions with the same processing.

It's a know fact the Sony has a relatively poor jpeg engine and these jpegs are what are showing up.


Sony's RAW images have problems. Who cares about their JPEGs?

Says who? Take a look around for samples. There are many ways to process RAW files, not all of them good.


I currently shoot with a 40D, 24-105 and 70-200/2.8. I'm seriously thinking of moving to a FF for a variety of reasons.

Unfortunately the 5DII does little to make me want one. The build/feel is not there. It's kind of slow feeling- the responsiveness apparently hasn't changed from the original.


You're moving from a 40D, and you're concerned about build/feel? If you owned a 5D, you wouldn't be talking about that, or responsiveness.

I've used a 5D. Build is the same or less than the 40D. It's also very slow in comparison- overall responsiveness.


5fps is 25% faster than 3.9%. 25% is kind of a lot- no?


No! It's not a lot. If you can't get a shot with 4 fps, then it's not likely you will get it with 5.

Then 5 to 6, 6 to 7, 7 to 8, 8 to 9, 9-10 matter not either. So I guess Canon is milking all the sports photogs by having them pay extra for 10fps.

You're a real piece of work.


The AF module on the A900 most likely will be much better than the 5D/5DII. The A700 focus tests are pretty good- equal to or better than the 30/40D in most reviews.


Now who's making assumptions?

It's far less of an assumption than what the IQ of the 5DII will be.

If you were here for a good deal of this thread, you would know that those of us who actually have this camera are almost all satisfied with the autofocus. The one on the mkII is slightly improved over that.

No it's not (improved) It's identical.

The 30/40D autofocus is not as good as the one from the 5D, esp. for tracking in servo.

And you know this how? The 40D/50D have markedly better of center AF with the cross type sensors. AF tracking is faster in the 40/50D as well.


Inbody IS is much more important to me at this point than a so-so movie mode.

100% VF is important to me. Not having one is one of the more annoying aspects of the 30/40/50D.


That's the first thing you've said that makes sense. If YOU aren't happy without in camera IS, then buy a camera with it.

Didn't say I wasn't happy without it. You can read can't you? I said that inbody IS is more important to ME than a so-so video mode.


Again, the jury is still out on the absolute IQ characteristics of the A900 and the 5DII.


No doubt we need to see some technical tests in addition to the field tests. But there is little question that the 5D mkII will have better IQ.

Making assumptions are we? And by better you mean at high ISO, at low ISO what assumptions are you making?


As is stands I'd give up a stop or stop and a half for the better AF, better VF (not only 100% but bigger and brighter), better build and inbody IS.


Nice to see someone be willing to give up image quality. We don't see too many people like you .

Maybe this is news to you, but there is more to IQ than high ISO noise performance.

You don't have to worry, you will be giving up astop to a stop and a half noise and dynamic range. You aren't getting much in exchange, since the AF isn't much better, if at all, the build quality is likely lower, other than a bit more sealing, and the dubious gain of in body IS.

Go check out DPR's review of the D700. The A900 in JPPEG mode is over 1 stop BETTER than the old 5D. The 5DII may or may not be any better. So no loss in DR for the A900.

I can't see it being worthwhile when people comment on how noisy your pictures are, or how smeared the details are. I guess you'll just have to grit your teeth, and explain that the viewfinder is 100%, and there are a couple more gaskets in the body. That should do it.

Well I guess they'd be noisy if I made it a habit to shoot at ISO 3200 or more with no PP and printed them at 20x30.

Did I mention that you're a real piece of work?


A900 85/1.4 at ISO 1600 and 1/15 will beat the 5DMkII at 85/1.2 ISO 6400 at 1/80 (give or take).


That's a joke, right? The mkII will easily beat the A900 at 1600 with the 85 1.2. Or at any other ISO speed or aperture. If you can't handhold it then, you should stop shooting.

Again, I'm going to jump out on a limb here and assume you CAN read. I said that at ISO 1600 the A900 will be better than the 5DII at 6400.

It's not MY problem YOU can't handhold your non stabelized $1800 lens steady at 1/15 while someone with an A900 with the equally as good CZ 85/1.4 can.



The only thing giving me pause is all the Canon gear being sold, driving prices down.


I guess that's funny. Ha ha.
[\quote]

Check out the buy/sell forum- 5Ds and 40Ds going for peanuts. Lots of L lenses going for cheap as well.

Gene

Oh, and Canon has yet to seem to be able to make a properly designed VG. They all suck for fit and function. I shoot a lot of vertical shots but shooting with the grip is worse than not having one- so I don't have or use one. Annoying aspect #2 of the 30/40/50D and since it's the same basic design for the 5D/DII the same holds true for that VG as well.


That's a joke!

I'm not so sure you even own Canon equipment.


Not so sure you do either. Got any proof you're not just some Canon wannabe fanboy talking out your @ss?

If you "did" actually own any Canon gear AND actually used any one of Canon's abysmal VGs you'd know that what I said is true.

Of course you could just be justifying the your spending of $200 on a $75 VG with limited functionality.

Gene




Oct 07, 2008 at 04:25 PM
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