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Archive 2008 · Some better A900 samples

  
 
moire
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p.12 #1 · Some better A900 samples


douglasf13 wrote:
I'm surprised how critical so many have been of the A900 on this forum. On the Sony forum on dpreview, I've noticed quite a few Canon/Nikon users that are or will be buying the A900.


Well they are just feeling threatened by this new giant



Oct 09, 2008 at 03:17 PM
Lotusm50
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p.12 #2 · Some better A900 samples


douglasf13 wrote:
I'm surprised how critical so many have been of the A900 on this forum. On the Sony forum on dpreview,



That should be your reason right there. ;-)





Oct 09, 2008 at 03:30 PM
douglasf13
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p.12 #3 · Some better A900 samples


I'm not sure what you mean, but my point is that lots of people from other systems seem to be buying the A900 when you browse various forums, and usually this forum is more prone to consider alternatives to Canon/Nikon. Isn't this the alternative gear forum?


Oct 09, 2008 at 03:52 PM
Lotusm50
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p.12 #4 · Some better A900 samples


douglasf13 wrote:
I'm not sure what you mean,<snip> usually this forum is more prone to consider alternatives to Canon/Nikon. Isn't this the alternative gear forum?



Hmmm. I would have thought that most people around here would get the joke.

But yes, this is the "Alternative gear" forum. I wouldn't necessarily say we are more "prone" to consider alternative but rather we tend to think more objectively and broadly about the possible alternative to meet our needs. But that applies to ALL gear. Just because it is NOT Canon or Nikon does NOT mean that it is good enough. Everything gets critically and objectively assessed to see if it best meets our needs and applications.




Oct 09, 2008 at 04:08 PM
douglasf13
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p.12 #5 · Some better A900 samples


Agreed, I just haven't seen you say much in a positive light about the camera. I can name plenty of reasons of why I would consider buying the 5Dii, so I'm curious what it is about the A900 that you really like, Lotusm50? I need AF two lenses, a 24-70 and an 85mm for all of my work, so switching systems is no biggie to me (I can use my other alternative lenses on most systems.) It's really about breaking the systems down to fit one's shooting needs. I'm not mentioning the D700 below, because I need the higher res cameras.

Things going for the 5Dii (to me):
-live view
-HD movies
-better high ISO at ISO 1600+ (assumed)
-optional wireless
-much better JPEGs
-sRAW seems convenient for some things

Things going for the A900 (to me):
-Big, bright viewfinder
-IS in the body
-5fps (actually, really not too much of an issue to me.)
-slightly better resolution (assumed from dpreview test)
-superior vertical grip layout (I shoot in portrait orientation a lot)
-viewfinder shutter (I would use this a lot with some projects.)
-1/250th flash sync (very, very important to me. I was hoping for 1/300+)
-I prefer Sony ergonomics, but that is obviously subjective.
-two card slots, although no backup or other routing options
The A900 just happens to fit my purposes better, because I wouldn't trade one thing on the A900 list for something on the 5Dii list, except MAYBE wireless file transfer, and I think that's why some shooters do prefer the A900. I would use the positives on the Canon list a very small percentage of the time, whereas the positives on the Sony list (except for the 5fps,) would be used nearly always. Either way, I can see both cameras being great for different types of users.


p.s. both the 24-70 and 85mm for Sony are very good, which attracted me to the system in the first place, but that's another issue.





Oct 09, 2008 at 05:04 PM
Lotusm50
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p.12 #6 · Some better A900 samples


douglasf13 wrote:
Agreed, I just haven't seen you say much in a positive light about the camera. I can name plenty of reasons of why I would consider buying the 5Dii, so I'm curious what it is about the A900 that you really like, Lotusm50?



Well, they you haven't been paying close-enough attention. ;-)
I would not be considering it if there weren't positive things about it. I currently have a 5D (among others) with a raft of alternative (mostly Zeiss) lenses (ans 2 Canon lenses -- 70-200/4L + 300/4 ISL -- that I don't really use).. So, the a900 has to be sufficiently better than a new 5D MkII, in ways that matter to me, to get me to switch.

Clearly positive things about the a900 (generally speaking, relative to my 5D system):
* better spec-ed body (VF, speed, etc.)
* in-body IS (would like to see test results on this, however)
* Zeiss 24-70/2.8 (but how much more relatively attractive is it, is the open question)
* Zeiss 135/1.8
* can consolidate lens holdings, potentially holding fewer lenses

Preliminarily positive things about the a900 (again, relatively speaking) -- need to get my hands on one to try to know for sure:
* ergonomics, handling and user interface(?) -- IMHO, the 5D sucks in this area, but it is not clear that the a900 is really any better
* build quality -- the 5D never impressed in this area
* Zeiss 16-35/2.8 -- might not really be significantly better than my Zeiss N 17-35/2.8

Toss-ups
* Zeiss 85/1.4 (no conclusive evidence that it is better (in that matter) than either my Zeiss N
85/1.4 (which is a lovely performer) or the Zeiss ZE 85/1.4 option
* 24mp vs 21mp

Negatives:
* limited, high quality prime lenses (rumours that 2 Zeiss primes are coming -- but when, how much longer do we have to wait)
* no Zeiss Makro (except, perhaps a completely manual, adapted ZS 100/2.0 M-P), I'm addicted to my Zeiss N 100/2.8 M-S.

Inconclusives, waiting for conclusive tests:
* noise (but preliminarily, it doesn't look positive, but we will reserve judgment)
* dynamic range
* reliability?

Does that help?




Oct 09, 2008 at 07:58 PM
Mel Gross
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p.12 #7 · Some better A900 samples


Tariq Gibran wrote:
This looks like what I've been saying here all along.

If Sony had come out with this camera a year ago, when we first began to hear rumors about this sensor, it would have been a *great* camera. Because, the top cameras of a year ago look to be what Sony was trying to beat, or equal.

But, it didn't come out a year ago, it's come out now. And now, either those cameras have been discontinued in favor of better ones, or are about to be discontinued in favor of better ones.

In light of that fact, the a900 is no
...Show more

Pricewise, the Sony is delivered against the 5D mkII, and the D700. My point there was that Sony was challenging the top cameras in specs, but that they will be bettered shortly. As the D700 has much better noise characteristics, and the 5D mkII seems to have better noise as well, in addition to better resolution, the a900 is now merely a "good" camera. It breaks no ground, as it might have a year ago.

Mel Gross wrote
Sony is trying to position this as their "pro" camera, but compared to the so called "real" pro cameras from Canon and Nikon, it's not competitive.

Sony have not claimed the A900 as being a "Pro" camera. They seem to go out of their way to not claim that in fact. It's positioned just like the 5D according to them. As such, it has some features lacking in the 5DII and lacks others.


Yup, you're right on that one. Sony isn't officially doing that.

Mel Gross wrote

The more tests that people here have been demanding we need to see before dismissing this as being one of the "best", are now coming out. They are backing up most of the early field reports on the camera, which is to say that this is good, but not up to the new models.

So, again, where can Sony position this? They might have to drop the actual MSRP. The Canon 5D mkII lists for $2,700, and will be selling for less in a few months, once initial heavy demand is satisfied, possibly around $2,500. The Nikon D700 lists for
...Show more

I'm curious about that last one. While I should probably know this, at this time, I can't remember. Which system and camera(s) are you using now?

And, what are you not happy about with them?

What about this Sony model is so compelling, that you would want to switch?



Oct 10, 2008 at 12:07 AM
Mel Gross
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p.12 #8 · Some better A900 samples


moire wrote:
Well they are just feeling threatened by this new giant


Right now, Sony is a pigmy in this business with a big thorn in the foot.

I hope they survive it. I really do. Both Canon and Nikon need the competition.



Oct 10, 2008 at 12:12 AM
moire
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p.12 #9 · Some better A900 samples


Mel Gross wrote:
Right now, Sony is a pigmy in this business with a big thorn in the foot.

I hope they survive it. I really do. Both Canon and Nikon need the competition.


Welll I wold say they are doing exceptionally well . Consider the short amount of time they have been on the market.

they got 17% of the market in EU, in poland they are #1 total and in Netherlands I think they are #2.

I havent seen any figures from cHine, but supposedly they are doing great there too. regarding the US, I dont have a clue. but the US arent as important.



Oct 10, 2008 at 03:14 AM
edwardkaraa
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p.12 #10 · Some better A900 samples


As far as I'm concerned there is no perfect camera. The A900 has a weakness in high-iso noise, the D700 in low pixel count, and the 5D2 seems to have its achilles heel in the AF system and lesser features than the competition (if you don't count the useless video feature). So each will decide for himself on what is important for his photography.


Oct 10, 2008 at 03:25 AM
Mel Gross
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p.12 #11 · Some better A900 samples


moire wrote:
Welll I wold say they are doing exceptionally well . Consider the short amount of time they have been on the market.

they got 17% of the market in EU, in poland they are #1 total and in Netherlands I think they are #2.

I havent seen any figures from cHine, but supposedly they are doing great there too. regarding the US, I dont have a clue. but the US arent as important.


Heh!

Only more important than all the other places.



Oct 10, 2008 at 03:46 AM
moire
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p.12 #12 · Some better A900 samples


Mel Gross wrote:
Heh!

Only more important than all the other places.



no since its not a growing market, but rather a declining one due to (bush ?) the economical problems.

China tho, that is a really important market !




Oct 10, 2008 at 03:54 AM
Lotusm50
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p.12 #13 · Some better A900 samples


moire wrote:
no since its not a growing market, but rather a declining one due to (bush ?) the economical problems.

China tho, that is a really important market !




Whether it is "growing" or not is not that important. It is nice, certainly. The US is, however, the biggest market for DSLR's in the world. Do you think Toyota would say the US is unimportant? Do you think Kia (Korean car maker) when they entered the US market thought it was unimportant for them as it wasn't really growing?? Of course not. Sony would love to do well in the US with it's DSLR's, and it will be very important to any success they ultimately achieve.




Oct 10, 2008 at 06:23 AM
Lotusm50
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p.12 #14 · Some better A900 samples


Mel Gross wrote:
Right now, Sony is a pigmy in this business with a big thorn in the foot.



What "thorn" is that?




Oct 10, 2008 at 06:25 AM
Tariq Gibran
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p.12 #15 · Some better A900 samples


Mel Gross wrote:
I'm curious about that last one. While I should probably know this, at this time, I can't remember. Which system and camera(s) are you using now?

And, what are you not happy about with them?

What about this Sony model is so compelling, that you would want to switch?


For commercial work, I was using a 5D. I used it for everything but the two areas where I used it most often were on location documentary work and in studio reproduction of artwork. The last one often required multiple shots and stitching for the large Giclee's I print(up to 40"x60" or so) so more resolution is always a good thing. For my personal work, I often use my 500cm Hasselblad or Large Format. Here too, more affordable resolution from a digital solution would be a great thing. In everything I do, particularly jobs where I might shoot up to 500 images in a few hours(the documentary work and occasional wedding), dealing with dust spots in PP with the 5D became a huge, time killing pain. I'm not really convinced about the Canon dust solution compared to say Olympus(I also use an Olympus E330 and dust is never ever an issue). I have seen dust in at least one 5DII sample image for instance. So higher resolution and effective, in camera dust elimination were big on my priority list. I also must say that before moving to digital eight years ago, I worked entirely with the Hasselblad. As large a viewfinder as I can get is also a big deal for me. My ultimate preference would be a waist level, medium format digital system but its currently out of my budget. I can almost replicate that experience with the Olympus E330. More and more, I'm also finding I prefer the 4/3 format. I sold the 5D just before the 5DII was announced as to be able to recoup as much as possible from it, which I did, and now I'm trying to decide on its replacement. So, the Sony gives me the biggest, brightest viewfinder available in a 35mm DSLR from anyone(according to reviews and user accounts), access to an AF Zeiss lens line(I really dislike the image rendition from Canon lenses and was using almost all Alt lenses with the 5D) and a body with better ergonomics for me. This is why I'm considering it over the 5DII.



Oct 10, 2008 at 08:06 AM
Mel Gross
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p.12 #16 · Some better A900 samples


moire wrote:
no since its not a growing market, but rather a declining one due to (bush ?) the economical problems.

China tho, that is a really important market !



That's really not the case.

And as you're being so Euro-chauvanistic, you may want to note that Europe is stuck in the same boat. In fact, some of the worse economies, the ones that have been mired with high unemployment for ages, such as France and Germany, the largest on the Continent, will be hit even harder.

But, really, this isn't a topic you should have brought up at all. Now we're just going to get into this as well.



Oct 10, 2008 at 09:35 AM
Mel Gross
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p.12 #17 · Some better A900 samples


Lotusm50 wrote:
What "thorn" is that?



Their large losses in the Digital Photo division.

That's what's been funding their sales increases.

They can't subsidize this as they do the Entertainment divisions PS3. They don't have large licensing fees coming in.



Oct 10, 2008 at 09:36 AM
Mel Gross
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p.12 #18 · Some better A900 samples


Tariq Gibran wrote:
For commercial work, I was using a 5D. I used it for everything but the two areas where I used it most often were on location documentary work and in studio reproduction of artwork. The last one often required multiple shots and stitching for the large Giclee's I print(up to 40"x60" or so) so more resolution is always a good thing. For my personal work, I often use my 500cm Hasselblad or Large Format. Here too, more affordable resolution from a digital solution would be a great thing. In everything I do, particularly jobs where I might shoot up
...Show more

That's fair enough. I don't agree with all of it, but it's a personal feeling. What some people like, others don't.

One thing I can say, is that the 4/3 format, with the new Micro cameras, looks to be a fun system, but it was never intended to compare in quality.

When Olympus first came out with it years ago, there was only APS-C. But, their first Ads stated (paraphrasing, of course):

"The Four Thirds System is the perfect compromise between size, cost, weight, and image quality..."

They knew that it couldn't equal the APS-C systems, but it could come close.

When Canon introduced the 1Ds, the FF moved the 4/3 from close second, to far third. Now with all other major manufacturers either having FF sensors, or are looking into it (Pentax), they finally came out with what they promised in the first place, but never delivered, the small light camera.

We'll see how it goes. For point and shoots, it's likely a great sensor.



Oct 10, 2008 at 09:47 AM
Tariq Gibran
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p.12 #19 · Some better A900 samples


Mel Gross wrote:
That's fair enough. I don't agree with all of it, but it's a personal feeling. What some people like, others don't.

One thing I can say, is that the 4/3 format, with the new Micro cameras, looks to be a fun system, but it was never intended to compare in quality.

When Olympus first came out with it years ago, there was only APS-C. But, their first Ads stated (paraphrasing, of course):

"The Four Thirds System is the perfect compromise between size, cost, weight, and image quality..."

They knew that it couldn't equal the APS-C systems, but it could come close.

When Canon introduced
...Show more

I just like the aspect ratio of that format. When I'm shooting and do not require the resolution of FF nor speed, the E330 is a joy to shoot. If I could afford it, I would be shooting MF digital with that same aspect ratio. That's the closest I can get to the perfect square format until the rest of the world comes around to its superiority!



Oct 10, 2008 at 10:07 AM
Tariq Gibran
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p.12 #20 · Some better A900 samples


So, I guess I will be the Guinea Pig as I just placed my order for the Sony A900! Sony does need to get their act together with the availability of the Zeiss 24-70 2.8. It's out of stock everywhere at the moment. Not really too smart on their part to not have stock of this lens(I would have ordered one!) as its about the best overall lens available for the A900 at the moment.


Oct 10, 2008 at 10:15 AM
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