John Caldwell wrote:
Sure, but what does the poster mean when saying the sensor will be cooked by the video feature? Is this a well known problem or this an alarmist's viewpoint?
-Just an intelligent, informed mentioning of one potential problem.
The reason we haven't seen this technology in the past is because sensors with more than about 5 mp could not stay on continuously without overheating.
The D40 was one of the first higher mp sensors that could, but iso noise starts to rise after only a few minutes. This was told to me by a senior canon engineer, as I had been heavily looking into the possiblity of video with a live-view still-cam as far back as 1 year ago.
We do not know how constant video use will affect the 5DII's performance, nor its long-term health. Only time will tell.
He's too excited in his 'invention' of the term 'combocam' and everything related. A new horse for him to ride on, it seems.
All of a sudden he's kind of a video expert and stills of course too...
I'd look somewhere else.
Looks like Michael Reichman had one to play with for 48 hours. I am a little dissapointed that he focused on the video aspects and not the still images. I understand he had nothing to decode the raw files with but hey... play with the jpegs.
GregM5 wrote:
There is detail in her face/skin/eyes/lips and in portions of the veil. There is obvious NR going on in the shot and the shot hasn't been sharpened in post. I have no idea what compression was used for this jpeg. Stating that the pixel quality of the current 5D is far better than a camera that isn't on the market yet is a bit much. I doubt that we will see these hair and smudge issues with raw files (or fine jpegs) on the actual production cameras - at least I hope not.
It's perfectly reasonable to compare 2 camera's output at 100%. Sure, printed side by side to the same page size isn't fair becuse one has more pixels to resolve in the same space. But 100% comparision is perfectly normal. I'm not talking about pixel peeping to a rediculous level, but that iso 800 image has a lot of smears to the girls hair and veil. Her skin detail looks very plasticy and processed.
Since starting this discussion, I've found that you can turn off the NR in the menu, CN II-2 is the setting (Page 13 on DP reviews preview). So this disscussion may be acedemic to start with. I've noticed that the default 5D's JPEGs show more noise at higher ISO's than the RAW files do. Which I presume is a noise confusion effect from the JPEG algorythm and the ISO noise. I'm hoping that the same thing is happening here, NR and JPEG engines causing an enhanced smear. Who knows until we get a Raw image (and converter) to work with.
I've printed this iso 800 image onto A3 and I can see smearing in her veil and hair, so it's apparent on a printer page too. Sure it's a lot cleaner than my current 5D is at 800 iso though.
garyroach wrote:
I can't see using a dslr for video. But, I'm sure that Canon's and Nikon's marketing departments tell them otherwise.
You've never had your nice landscape scene lined up in the viewfinder and kind of wished "man, this scene is so dynamic, it'd be cool to have a 1 minute video clip of what I'm seeing through the viewfinder right now."
It's happened to me.
Bubbles coming up under a violent waterfall; grasses and bushes blowing in the wind at sunset; boats coming through a canal. Surf breaking over the rugged coastline. Yeah, there have been times that I've thought my scene would make a nice little video clip (stock video? scenic video? I dunno what the use would be).
But yeah, there have been times I've been tempted to dabble in video.
Possibly this is a "lure" feature to get people like me interested in video... so that we start looking more seriously at Canon's expensive digital HD recorders (and lenses)... dangerous territory.
I see the new 5DII as a brilliant multi-media data gathering tool. It can take great stills and video. It can perform in almost impossible lighting conditions. It can print if one is shooting an event (or wedding) and someone needs to take a print away with them. It will take video in the one format that everyone can use. One can plug a stereo mic or take from a sound board for audio. L Lenses will make for great image resolution not seen in consumer level HD video. Art directors, directors, photographers, videographers, designers, real estate agents, journalists, paparazzi, wedding shooters, event photogs are all going to use the multi-media aspect. It's small for what you get. The same camera on the same shoot can be used for image gathering for commercial youtube style videos, websites, brochures and even billboards. Every photographer will become a videographer. It's a lot of work doing videos, so Canon made it simple. Just what one needs to make a quick video, process and get it up on the website or to a DVD. How about company presentations? And what a great b-roll camera for a small video operation.
Think Multi-Media tool and the 5DII becomes a whole new perspective on photography. It's a tool for inspiration, persuasion and marketing using any visual (and audio) media available.
And then think what the consumer will do with this multi-media ability. All computers seem to come with video, photos and audio editing. How many hobbyists will love to have the ability to create visually stimulating multi media youtube videos, website links and photos, print photos for everyone and create calendars and cards for holidays. One can do that with almost any P&S – how about those that want higher quality? Here 'tis. This is the meeting ground of consumer and professional multi-media. It can go either direction. How fun is that?
gazzajagman wrote:
Absolutly! It's not hitting the Uk shored until late November and Stock will be hard to come by, which means that we'll be forced to pay over the odds if you want one before Xmass...but Hong kong rarely has these supply issues and often their prices are more negotiable too.
Back on the NR front. It looks like the NR is applied irrespective of RAW/sRAW/JPEG.
Looking at Dpreview's menu layout, Page 13, the defaul setting is option "0", there's one stronger "2", but there's 2 lower options, Lower "1" and disable (YAY!) "3".
It's also possible that the default JPEG is set to normal and not fine and that the JPEG compression + NR = smudges. Take out the NR (maybe loose a stop) and use RAW (ans gain processability) and we could see some very detailed images indeed!...Show more →
Cableaddict wrote:
The reason we haven't seen this technology in the past is because sensors with more than about 5 mp could not stay on continuously without overheating.
We do not know how constant video use will affect the 5DII's performance, nor its long-term health. Only time will tell.
I've shot hours-long exposures with everything from a 300d to a 1ds3 (and obviously thousands of others have as well) and I've never heard of a sensor fry or melt. You're very right that things get noisy, but that's much different from causing the sensor to fail.
I'm sure Canon's tested this. Unlike the AF problems, all they'd have to do is leave the thing on for a few weeks. If it doesn't fry, I'm sure it's fine. It would be unfathomably stupid of them to not test this aspect of a product they know is going to sell like hotcakes.
If it does, that's why you've got a warranty right?
d_chiesa wrote:
He's too excited in his 'invention' of the term 'combocam' and everything related. A new horse for him to ride on, it seems.
All of a sudden he's kind of a video expert and stills of course too...
I'd look somewhere else.
He's more of a video expert than most of us. He shoots and produces the videos he sells. He also has a background in video production. I am interested in what he has to say. Considering he had no manual or other info he got some things wrong in the video 1080i instead of 1080p. The video clip at the end of his comentary was interesting and well saturated. I look forward to further comments from Michael R.
IraGraham wrote:
I agree that the old 5D's auto focus has proven reliable with very few complaining. Someone tell me why I need to upgrade or why u guys are upgrading. In my opinion you don't need more then 12 megapixs. I had a billboard made of one of my 5D pics for a local chuch and it looks awesome.
You don't really, unless you find the new features essential. One thing I'll say about the 5D, the LCD is abysmal, the worst of any Canon I've owned, including the much smaller screen of the 20D. The new LCD will be a huge improvement but that's not why you'd spend $2700 of course. If it's just purely about IQ the 5D still stands tall, although the 5D II has more potential and very large prints will be better. It's probably is 1-1.5 stops cleaner at high ISO too. I have rarely shot at ISO 1600 let alone even tried ISO 3200, and this 5D II looks like it could be very good at 3200 and good at 6400. Lots of little things, but nothing huge apart from the pixel increase and video.
I'm waiting for detailed reviews and downloading some RAW files myself before committing, but I'm expecting to get one around PMA next year. I'm not being a beta tester and paying pre Xmas prices. that's for sure. 5D will still be taking great photos. My problem is actually getting out and taking photos and any camera would be great the way I'm going this last 3 months.
joebee wrote:
He's more of a video expert than most of us. He shoots and produces the videos he sells. He also has a background in video production. I am interested in what he has to say. Considering he had no manual or other info he got some things wrong in the video 1080i instead of 1080p. The video clip at the end of his comentary was interesting and well saturated. I look forward to further comments from Michael R.
joebee wrote:
He's more of a video expert than most of us. He shoots and produces the videos he sells. He also has a background in video production. I am interested in what he has to say. Considering he had no manual or other info he got some things wrong in the video 1080i instead of 1080p. The video clip at the end of his comentary was interesting and well saturated. I look forward to further comments from Michael R.
Agreed. His partner also just happens to be a 40 year video professional, so this is indeed someone to pay attention to. I'm glad to see he gave a very sensible review, pointing out the flaws & shortcomings as well as the "gee wiz" factor.
I'm also surprised, but excited, that he did NOT see any "jello factor," even though he was aware of this and looking for it. Interesting, to say the least.
They have started a new forum on Luminous Landscape, specifically devoted to "combocams" (I like that term) That forum should be one to watch carefully, as technology progresses.
bobbytan wrote:
That's progress .... as I am sure a lot of people are still shooting film!
Hey, what's wrong with film? I'm still shooting with my Elan 7 . I will be switching to Digital though in 2009. The 5Dmk2 is VERY tempting...in the meantime, i'll be saving $$$. I'm ready for the change, the thing that is freaking me out is how to process RAW files, how the heck does a digital rookie like me do that
RDKirk, Why is that Nikon will listen to what photographers want? As a consequence, there are people who have switched over to the dark side or they're running with two systems.
Pardon me? Nikon users were crying in their beer for three years before Nikon finally came through. Nikon told them for years, "DX today, DX tomorrow, DX forever!" until they sprung FX on them.
Three years ago it certainly didn't look as though Nikon was paying any attention.
Secondly, what makes you think Canon isn't providing what their target markets want? They certainly have provided what I and a big group of portrait photographer want--a way to get 1Ds IQ without paying the 1Ds price.
I suspect, though, that they have actually provided exactly what their Japanese target market wants--pleasing me was just serendipitous.
Apparently, the biggest problem with the 5D mk II is that Canon gave us the 5D mk II. Photographically, it targets exactly the same market segment as the original 5D, while adding amateur videographers. In other words, they choose not to introduce a 1Ds mk 4 Lite at a 5D price (at least at this time.)
I'm sure there is a market a 1Dsmk4l. I'd probably buy one. It will be interesting to compare sales figures for the Nikon D700 and the 5DII a year from now. Brushing the internet vomiting aside, it would be about the only objective way to judge if Canon made a sound marketing decision. (from Canon's perspective, of course, which is all their stockholders actually care about.)
RDKirk wrote:
Pardon me? Nikon users were crying in their beer for three years before Nikon finally came through. Nikon told them for years, "DX today, DX tomorrow, DX forever!" until they sprung FX on them.
Three years ago it certainly didn't look as though Nikon was paying any attention.
Secondly, what makes you think Canon isn't providing what their target markets want? They certainly have provided what I and a big group of portrait photographer want--a way to get 1Ds IQ without paying the 1Ds price.
I suspect, though, that they have actually provided exactly what their Japanese target market wants--pleasing me was just serendipitous....Show more →
Pixel Perfect wrote:
You don't really, unless you find the new features essential. One thing I'll say about the 5D, the LCD is abysmal, the worst of any Canon I've owned, including the much smaller screen of the 20D. The new LCD will be a huge improvement but that's not why you'd spend $2700 of course. If it's just purely about IQ the 5D still stands tall, although the 5D II has more potential and very large prints will be better. It's probably is 1-1.5 stops cleaner at high ISO too. I have rarely shot at ISO 1600 let alone even tried ISO 3200, and this 5D II looks like it could be very good at 3200 and good at 6400. Lots of little things, but nothing huge apart from the pixel increase and video....Show more →
For the record, the Mark III's LCD is even worse. Bigger, but same resolution...making it soft(er)....(or is that the AF system causing that...)
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