CMOS wrote:
Are you kidding? A great many 5D users have been grousing about the outdated feature set for the last 18 months!
The 5D mk II is very late to be announced. And the delays in shipping only make it effectively more delayed. I can't take photos with a press release.
I know that. I'm a 5D owner. The point is that Canon isn't taking a long time to release the camera after its announcement. There's way too much grousing about it.
skibum5 wrote:
but not everyone has a FF cam yet and not everyone wants to spend money on something older like a 5D at this point in time (which has even less of the things they want in a camera too, it's definitely less general purpose than the 5dmkii, although even that is not quite as general purpose as some wished for)
and some events won't happen again for 12 more months and some people migh tno longer have access to them in 12 months and would've liked to have captured them with a 5dmkii.
so i think these are a few of the many reasons why
but technically it is not late per the "by the end of novemeber statement" if that is what you go by ...Show more →
I'm not going by any date. I'm waiting until early next year once they have the bugs worked out of the firmware as all cameras have when they first come out, and to see if there are any problems like what was experienced with the 1D mkIII.
The point is that another month or two isn't going to make a crimp in anyone's plans. Only if you are making plans that involve this camera before you have it in hand, never a good idea, does it matter.
Mel Gross wrote:
I'm not going by any date. I'm waiting until early next year once they have the bugs worked out of the firmware as all cameras have when they first come out, and to see if there are any problems like what was experienced with the 1D mkIII.
The point is that another month or two isn't going to make a crimp in anyone's plans. Only if you are making plans that involve this camera before you have it in hand, never a good idea, does it matter.
I dont think we can really say that considering we don't know what everyones plans are. I for one was hoping to purchase a 5Dmk2 and then go on holiday with it. Now it looks like I am uncertain how much its going to be and have no idea when I will be able to buy one.
ovredal73 wrote:
Well, I am scheduled to shoot a music video on it in december, so I certainly hope it arrives soon
Good luck!
But if you've done video in the past, you'll find this to be a very different experience. I hope your video is at the end of the month to give you plenty of time to get used to this.
dan221081 wrote:
If you have only just pre-ordered then I wouldnt hold much hope. I have just finished ringing around a lot of shops checking to see if they have anything in stock / when they will do / and how many people are on the pre-order list. To be honest in the UK its a bit of a joke trying to get hold of one.
Even though I am number 40 on one of the pre-order lists, I'm still not likely to get one until the end of January. It makes me angry that every shop that I have spoken to has gone for the pre-order list system, meaning that all the cameras are sold already to the hardcore fanatics. Meanwhile everyone else gets told to sod off and wait.
I am seriously starting to consider not going for a 5Dmk2 or 5D and returning to the original idea of getting a 40/50D again. They are so much cheaper (and from what I hear the 40D is considered to be sharper than the 50D in some cases). This doesn't set the 5Dmk2 in good stead considering its build on similar tech.
Even though I saved a long time for the new 5D I am now tempted to go for the cheaper body and spend the money on glass.
...Show more →
I don't understand your objection to pre orders. Those who walked in with confidence, put down a deposit, and then waited...somehow don't deserve to be ahead of you? What would be your preferred approach? Arm wrestle? Age before beauty? One potato, two potato?
50D has a higher pixel density than either the 40D or the 5D2 (or 5D for that matter). Indeed, it has the highest pixel density of any Canon DSLR ever. I would expect that density to bring out the worst in lenses.
You could be right about redirecting your funds from camera bodies to lenses--which are certainly a better long term investment than a body. Further, if a 50D will do what you need, then that is definitely the way to go. And better yet, put that left over $1,500 in a T-Bill.
Besides, if you get a 50D, the guy behind you in the 5D2 list will move up.
dan221081 wrote:
I dont think we can really say that considering we don't know what everyones plans are. I for one was hoping to purchase a 5Dmk2 and then go on holiday with it. Now it looks like I am uncertain how much its going to be and have no idea when I will be able to buy one.
I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice to have soon. I'm just saying that there's little that most will be doing shortly that requires this, so that this won't make much of a difference right away.
Of course for non professional use it's less critical that everything work right out of the box, so to speak. But I just can't imaging anyone using a new model, and relying on it for professional work until after having used it for a while as a secondary body, as we see the pros who have been using this in the articles we've been reading are doing.
I know my opinion on this is contrary to what some here think, though I see that others agree.
I just know very few who will take on something new during a busy season, or while doing a big project. New stuff is for slow times, and testing first.
Mel Gross wrote:
I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice to have soon. I'm just saying that there's little that most will be doing shortly that requires this, so that this won't make much of a difference right away.
Of course for non professional use it's less critical that everything work right out of the box, so to speak. But I just can't imaging anyone using a new model, and relying on it for professional work until after having used it for a while as a secondary body, as we see the pros who have been using this in the articles we've been reading are doing.
I know my opinion on this is contrary to what some here think, though I see that others agree.
I just know very few who will take on something new during a busy season, or while doing a big project. New stuff is for slow times, and testing first. ...Show more →
There is another consideration that has escaped your analysis. My wife wants this as her Christmas present, so the timing is perfect. If the camera comes after Christmas, then I have to buy something else for Christmas--AND buy the 5D2 when it finally shows. So a three or four week later delivery makes this one expensive Brownie for me!
burychka wrote:
There is another consideration that has escaped your analysis. My wife wants this as her Christmas present, so the timing is perfect. If the camera comes after Christmas, then I have to buy something else for Christmas--AND buy the 5D2 when it finally shows. So a three or four week later delivery makes this one expensive Brownie for me!
Ah! Well, that's different! Is this really for HER though, or are you planning on sneaking a few clicks now and then?
burychka wrote:
I don't understand your objection to pre orders. Those who walked in with confidence, put down a deposit, and then waited...somehow don't deserve to be ahead of you? What would be your preferred approach? Arm wrestle? Age before beauty? One potato, two potato?
50D has a higher pixel density than either the 40D or the 5D2 (or 5D for that matter). Indeed, it has the highest pixel density of any Canon DSLR ever. I would expect that density to bring out the worst in lenses.
You could be right about redirecting your funds from camera bodies to lenses--which are certainly a better long term investment than a body. Further, if a 50D will do what you need, then that is definitely the way to go. And better yet, put that left over $1,500 in a T-Bill.
Besides, if you get a 50D, the guy behind you in the 5D2 list will move up. ...Show more →
Ok imagine this hypothetical scenario, your local store has a shipment of say 10 5Dmk2s come in. Your away on a business trip and know roughly that in your small town there really is very little chance that people are going to be in a position before Christmas to be able to buy them and as you are out of the country you put off ringing up the shop. Besides the camera does not even come out for a few weeks yet.
You come back from your business trip to find that infact the local camera shop down the road even though the cameras have not yet arrived , have already been sold ... worse yet not to people in the town (who expected to pop along to the shop and buy one on release day) but to people from other towns possibly.
Mel Gross wrote:
Ah! Well, that's different! Is this really for HER though, or are you planning on sneaking a few clicks now and then?
It's for her--she always gets the best, newest stuff. I'll get her 40D to replace my aging 20D (which was hers until she got the 40D, and on which the odometer is on its sixth time around). She'll use the 5D2 almost exclusively, although as now, when we shoot grandbabies in our home studio, she'll direct and I'll be the monkey pushing the button. In the field, she'll probably take the 40D when she needs the 1.6 crop factor for a distant yellow-crowned night heron (since that will still be a larger image than cropping a 5D2 image).
There was never any question as to whose camera this will be.
dan221081 wrote:
Ok imagine this hypothetical scenario, your local store has a shipment of say 10 5Dmk2s come in. Your away on a business trip and know roughly that in your small town there really is very little chance that people are going to be in a position before Christmas to be able to buy them and as you are out of the country you put off ringing up the shop. Besides the camera does not even come out for a few weeks yet.
You come back from your business trip to find that infact the local camera shop down the road even though the cameras have not yet arrived , have already been sold ... worse yet not to people in the town (who expected to pop along to the shop and buy one on release day) but to people from other towns possibly.
you can see how that can be annoying.......Show more →
Yes. I would be quite annoyed...at myself for not considering the possibility that my shop might sell out. It happens to stage shows and video games and fancy cell phones all the time.
The other consideration for me is that I am glad people are coming from other small towns and helping my local dealer to thrive. Above all, I need local camera stores. At least two. And my small town metro area of 3 million people is down to exactly two camera stores (not counting Ritz and Wolf). I wouldn't expect them to hold camera bodies just in case a local citizen walks in for a 5D2.
I guess thats the difference between the US market and the UK one. In the UK if there is a shop down the road its primarily there to service that area and as a secondary objective service other areas. Otherwise whats the point in it being in that location. As a result small shops in the UK are more likely to be loyal to their local customers first. In the US going on what your saying it looks like its quite different.
dan221081 wrote:
I guess thats the difference between the US market and the UK one. In the UK if there is a shop down the road its primarily there to service that area and as a secondary objective service other areas. Otherwise whats the point in it being in that location. As a result small shops in the UK are more likely to be loyal to their local customers first. In the US going on what your saying it looks like its quite different.
What you describe sounds like an unusually utopian world. If in fact that is the way things work in the UK, I like it. So do you reciprocate by giving all your business to the local store, or do you occasionally shop online for the best price?
I can tell you that here in the U.S., local stores are threatened by online dealers. In some cases it is a price and/or local sales tax issue. In other instances, the issue is availability of equipment which local dealers do not keep in stock and cannot get promptly (this is the age of instant gratification). B&H and Canoga pretty much have everything all the time, and they are in New York and California, respectively, so they don't collect sales tax on Texas sales.
Personally I like the sound of your camera store utopia. Historically, socioeconomic conditions in the U.S. run 15-20 years behind the UK, so we have a nice time to look forward to.
dan221081 wrote:
If you have only just pre-ordered then I wouldnt hold much hope. I have just finished ringing around a lot of shops checking to see if they have anything in stock / when they will do / and how many people are on the pre-order list. To be honest in the UK its a bit of a joke trying to get hold of one.
Even though I am number 40 on one of the pre-order lists, I'm still not likely to get one until the end of January. It makes me angry that every shop that I have spoken to has gone for the pre-order list system, meaning that all the cameras are sold already to the hardcore fanatics. Meanwhile everyone else gets told to sod off and wait.
I am seriously starting to consider not going for a 5Dmk2 or 5D and returning to the original idea of getting a 40/50D again. They are so much cheaper (and from what I hear the 40D is considered to be sharper than the 50D in some cases). This doesn't set the 5Dmk2 in good stead considering its build on similar tech.
Even though I saved a long time for the new 5D I am now tempted to go for the cheaper body and spend the money on glass.
Mel Gross wrote:
I'm not going by any date. I'm waiting until early next year once they have the bugs worked out of the firmware as all cameras have when they first come out, and to see if there are any problems like what was experienced with the 1D mkIII.
The point is that another month or two isn't going to make a crimp in anyone's plans. Only if you are making plans that involve this camera before you have it in hand, never a good idea, does it matter.
well it does put in crimp in at least some subset of potential purchasers plans
as likely my last access ever to some major events was this fall season and I also had one of the longer stretches of free time this fall for fall landscape stuff in the proper region and there a couple things I wanted to be able to try out and see how it handled to know whether it's ok to sell my xxD or not, sure that is just me, but there have to be others in the same situation and i although I have never done weddings myself I know there are plenty of wedding people who would've liked to have had it for the fall season and who consider the upcoming months very bare pickings
so a few weeks or a couple months can make a rather sizeable difference to some.
Ok imagine this hypothetical scenario, your local store has a shipment of say 10 5Dmk2s come in. Your away on a business trip and know roughly that in your small town there really is very little chance that people are going to be in a position before Christmas to be able to buy them and as you are out of the country you put off ringing up the shop. Besides the camera does not even come out for a few weeks yet.
Are you saying that I haven't even put my name on the list? I'm expecting the local proprietor to have read my mind from a distance and laid a camera aside for me? Would I be annoyed if he sold all his cameras while I was out of town?
I'd be annoyed I hadn't gotten off my backside and put my name on the list. But I certainly would not expect my local dealer--especially if I liked him--to turn away a sale when I haven't even told him I intended to buy.
Nor would I expect people with money in hand to say, "Oh, it wouldn't be fair for me to drive over there and buy a camera--I should leave them all for those people."
But then, if I guessed there wouldn't be anyone in my town buying that camera, the local dealer has certainly guessed it...and probably won't order any on speculation anyway.
I sell photographs as a business. If someone in the next town likes my work, I have no problems with them ringing me up and bring their business to me. So I would not begrudge my camera dealer doing it.
40D for one came out a month before the "release by" date
Hmmm. The 40D was announced on August 20, 2007 and scheduled for delivery early that September. So are you saying it was delivered before it was announced?
and honestly it is kind of late in arriving, they did sit on the 5D pretty long, even in one of the canon interviews they themselves said they were sorry they didnt get things going so it could have at least been ready when the 50D was, nevermind earlier
"Sit on?"
Having worked in a company that put out regularly updated applications, I don't believe for a moment Canon "sat on" the 5D. They may have determined that the best way to make money was to set that model on a 36-month project cycle, but if you're saying they produced a camera and then "sat on" it, you'd have to show some real evidence (like a company memo).
After having spent millions of dollars in development (a lot of people working on the project collecting paychecks, resources allocated, retooling, new assembly processes developed), the most urgent push is to get then new product out onto dealers' shelves so that it can start making a profit.
Nor would they have delayed starting the new project at the beginning, because "stuff happens," so no intelligent project manager would delay unnecessarily.
They may have rather had the camera ready at the same time as the 50D--I don't doubt someone at Canon said that. But I doubt he said they "sat on" it.
In the UK if there is a shop down the road its primarily there to service that area and as a secondary objective service other areas. Otherwise whats the point in it being in that location.
The point would be: That's where I figured the business was, so that's where I put my shop.
Personally, I advertise across the entire central area of my state. There are four other huge-name photographers within an hour's drive of me who draw in clients from hundreds of miles away. Any of us would go broke if we made up our minds to serve only clients in our tiny community.
RDKirk wrote:
The point would be: That's where I figured the business was, so that's where I put my shop.
Personally, I advertise across the entire central area of my state. There are four other huge-name photographers within an hour's drive of me who draw in clients from hundreds of miles away. Any of us would go broke if we made up our minds to serve only clients in our tiny community.
Exactly , but as a photographer your in a different line of work to a camera shop. A shop is there to offer business to the local area otherwise it might as well fire the sales guy and rent out a business unit and sell its products purely through a website.
