chesapeake wrote:
Actually the unemployment rate in the US and Canada is just over 6% while it is nearly 9% among the European Union. Shhhh.....don't tell Canon.
Actually the unemployment rate in the EU is 7.5% (latest figures; The Economist, Nov. 8). Also noteworthy: consumer prices in the US went up 4.9% year-on-year; in the EU they went up 3.2%. And these last figures are why your other comment:
chesapeake wrote:
Third and most important, the GDP (Gross Domestic Product), a measure of income is over $50,000 per capita in the U.S. versus $28,000 per capita for th EU.
doesn't really say anything. That's why PPP was invented: Purchasing Power Parity. Still, the US "wins" over there. The CIA estimates a PPP per capita in the US of $45.800 while in the EU it stands at $32.700 (2007 estimates by the CIA) (*)
Any figures on dSLR sales would be nice though. I'd be totally surprised if the EU beats the US in numbers of dLSR's sold.
-Emile
(*) Even though the EU can be represented by figures as a unity, these figures conceal the fact that there are huge differences. Poland for instance has a PPP of $ 16.200 per capita, while in Luxembourg it's a whopping $ 79.500 (again, according to the CIA - didn't they provide the intelligence for the Iraq invasion?). I'm just wondering, is this the same in the US, these huge difference on a regional basis?
edit: I don't mean to bring on a US vs EU discussion...
Mel Gross wrote:
Our debt is way too high for us, but it's still far lower as a percentage of the GDP than it is most anywhere else. What's the percentage of it in Canada?
Japans' is over 100%, ours is approaching 30%.
Where do you get your figures? According to the CIA world fact book public debt in the US is 60.9%. In the EU it's 58.7% (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_European_Union). Public debt figures don't include household debt, which typically is much higher in the US than most anywhere else in the world.
I didn't check my sources but neither did you
Listen, we can shout figures here like no-one else and be proud of it, but it doesn't really help any discussion if they're incorrect, now does it. And least of all a discussion on the 5DII, which I'll probably be buying somewhere around summer next year.
(again, according to the CIA - didn't they provide the intelligence for the Iraq invasion?)
Actually, the CIA estimate was "We don't have reliable evidence" but the politicians insisted on getting what was clearly labeled "unreliable" evidence, and going with that.
As one CIA historian has said, "Politicians prefer ambiguity because certainty limits their options."
I would like to discuss the MKII also
I will be purchasing one in February(hopefully), I currently own a Tokina 12-24. I'm not selling it because my wife will use it on my 20D. Eventually I will be buying a 17-40, but not right away. What kind of results could I expect with the 5DII and the Tokina? I know it worked with the first 5D, is it wrong to assume it will work with MKII? Working above 17mm is fine if the results are good. If not I might have to look into an alternative prime for the time being. I mostly shoot landscapes.
Chris, in all seriousness, if you were happy with the Tokina and the 5D you will see only a bit less resolution at the edges. Full frame is demandingand most notably out at the edges of any lens. The best advice is to try it and shoot stopped down whenever possible. Wew-glad to get this back on topic
Well, I have never used it on a 5D, only going by what I have read on here. But I will be testing it on the new camera, because I will be broke and not able to buy any new lens for a while. Also, stopped down is where my tokina lives, so hopefully the mkII will be kind to it.
Mel Gross wrote:
You're right. Our jobless rate is now a bit over half of what France and Germany's normal jobless rate has been for over a decade. Italy's has been higher for years as well, as is that of most of Europe. Gee, theirs is going up more, as is the rest of Europes'.
How's it going there?
Our debt is way too high for us, but it's still far lower as a percentage of the GDP than it is most anywhere else. What's the percentage of it in Canada?
A few days. If they had cameras that people had on order, no difference.
The exchange rate has changed markedly. Just because people don't understand it doesn't mean it has no effect.
If feeling annoyed makes you feel better, go right ahead. But don't expect it to actually change anything, because real events are happening.
Wow, what a dummy spit.
It's changing the prices down here as well, but that's just life. Seems to me that most of the people complaining simply don't understand why it's happening, and are not interested in learning about it, either.
Yes, very profound. Thanks for the positive input.
Actually, the CIA estimate was "We don't have reliable evidence" but the politicians insisted on getting what was clearly labeled "unreliable" evidence, and going with that.
As one CIA historian has said, "Politicians prefer ambiguity because certainty limits their options."
Excellent point. And I believe you're right about the Iraq info.
Well, at least the politicians are the same both side of the pond
EyeBrock wrote:
Yes, very profound. Thanks for the positive input.
Pot and kettle...
It's an old discussion. People usually totally dig exchange rates working for them in a positive way but all of a sudden despise companies when the rates run the other way. Try to profit when things run your way, don't be put off when it's the opposite.
I've had some major savings the past 18 months ordering things in the US. I'm glad I did and I don't blame Canon for a change in the exchange rates. That means I'm not happy about it, but I still don't see any reason to blame an individual company.
wkhc168 wrote:
In my business, global currencies fluctuations affecting revenue is just part of doing business globally. We don't go raising prices every time the exchange rate moves. You report it in your financial report as effects of changing currencies. You definitely do not cancel your customers order so that you can change your price because of currencies changes. You raise prices to the new orders, not to those already ordered. I think Canon is not doing itself a favor in this time of economic turmoil. They are just giving all their otherwise committed customers a chance for a second thought. I do hope that they are economically impacted by this bad decision....Show more →
Canon has historically treated its customers badly. The 1DMk2n comes to mind. The 40D has made several people I know really, really upset with Canon. Of course, they'll get over it--and Canon execs know that.
The 5D2 is going to have to make customers of 1DsMk3 furious. That $8,000 (USD) camera is not used for sports or nature. It's a studio box. In that environment, its advantage over the 5D2 is insignificant. And the difference in price would buy a lot of lighting gear, backgrounds, lenses, and...a backup 5D2!
The answer for our Canadian friends is to not buy the 5D2. Actually, that's the answer for US customers, too. Once those boxes have been dusted 60 or 70 times, the price will come down. With all due respect to our allies in Europe, North America (at least the portion of North America north of the Rio Grande), is Japan, Inc.'s largest homogeneous market. Yeah, they sell a lot in Europe, but not one version with manuals in one language and only one or two service centers.
Canon has already seen disappointing 50D sales (partly due to PO'd 40D customers, I imagine), and it will get worse. The US has hundreds of thousands of families on the verge of being foreclosed out of their homes. Hundreds of thousands more are overextended on credit cards which are being shut down. As these reckless spendthrifts get their credit pulled, their buying will stop cold. Milk, bread, and black beans...that will be it.
I've lived a conservative life, and as a result, even though I don't make a lot of money, my home is paid for, my cars are paid for, and I have only monthly credit card charges. I can drive my 2000 Subaru down to the camera shop next month and buy a 5D2 without really affecting my personal financial situation at all, but probably will not. Maybe I'll wait for the full frame Canon Rebel XXSSTTii with 24 megapixels for $999 in February!
chesapeake wrote:
Chris, in all seriousness, if you were happy with the Tokina and the 5D you will see only a bit less resolution at the edges. Full frame is demandingand most notably out at the edges of any lens. The best advice is to try it and shoot stopped down whenever possible. Wew-glad to get this back on topic
I believe the Tokina 12-24 is designed for APS-C sensors....which would mean significant physical vignetting on a FF sensor. The only 12-24, I know, designed to work on FF is the Sigma.
It's an old discussion. People usually totally dig exchange rates working for them in a positive way but all of a sudden despise companies when the rates run the other way. Try to profit when things run your way, don't be put off when it's the opposite.
I've had some major savings the past 18 months ordering things in the US. I'm glad I did and I don't blame Canon for a change in the exchange rates. That means I'm not happy about it, but I still don't see any reason to blame an individual company.
I actually did ok in Feb when we were at par from B&H.
Canon didn't drop the prices when the Yen was low against the Can $ so I'm not sure your point hits the mark but I know what you are saying.
My point was that the whole thing was done quite sneakily by Canon Canada.
The company I work for is proactive at getting good and bad news out promptly and openly.
I guess I expected a multi-national like Canon to do the same. I'm not going to flog this to death but it was badly handled.
Open and frank reasons would have sold way better than the 'delete original price from website and hope nobody notices' approach.
Just bad PR.
I'll still most probably get the 5D2, but Canon have slipped a tad in my estimation.
The other thing that has been suprising is the open hostility some posters have displayed towards us Canadians expressing our particular opinions at paying another $450 for the 5D2. Different.
