skibum5 wrote:
i have not used a 5D and i have never claimed to.
nobody on any of the forums are more defensive than 5D users.
No you haven`t used a 5D that is obvious. Yes you are right about 5D users being defensive.....mostly because of spec readers condemning a camera they have never used. You are right that if you only read the specs it doesn`t seem very impressive. The difference is the 5D doesn`t always read it`s own specs I guess. I have used this camera since 2 months after it came out. I live on a island where salt air, blowing sand and very nasty weather is the norm. It has never let me down. Although auto focus is not pro I have a very exceptable keeper rate even in low light. I have shot surfing and kiteboarding many times and have had excellent results even though if you listen to posters here it is not capable of doing this. I am sure these posters are just spec readers also.
What it comes down to is what can a capable photographer do with this tool....not what the specs say. Specs are for readers not workers. I have used the 1D series many times although impressive...to big to heavey...not my bag. That is why I use a 5D and stand behind it when the nonuser na-sayers come out. I only hope the 5D II will be the same. It is not the specs I want...it is what can I make this tool do for me. If it follows what the 5D could do and better I will be one very happy photog.........Peter
Peter Le wrote:
No you haven`t used a 5D that is obvious. Yes you are right about 5D users being defensive.....mostly because of spec readers condemning a camera they have never used. You are right that if you only read the specs it doesn`t seem very impressive. The difference is the 5D doesn`t always read it`s own specs I guess. I have used this camera since 2 months after it came out. I live on a island where salt air, blowing sand and very nasty weather is the norm. It has never let me down. Although auto focus is not pro I have a very exceptable keeper rate even in low light. I have shot surfing and kiteboarding many times and have had excellent results even though if you listen to posters here it is not capable of doing this. I am sure these posters are just spec readers also.
What it comes down to is what can a capable photographer do with this tool....not what the specs say. Specs are for readers not workers. I have used the 1D series many times although impressive...to big to heavey...not my bag. That is why I use a 5D and stand behind it when the nonuser na-sayers come out. I only hope the 5D II will be the same. It is not the specs I want...it is what can I make this tool do for me. If it follows what the 5D could do and better I will be one very happy photog.........Peter...Show more →
yeah i don't like the bulk of the 1 series either, for sports i dont care for everything else i do and its a big negative for me.
my ideal would be probably the D800 (whenver it arrives, 12 months??) or if canon stuck the video and sensor in a D700 and charged a bit more for it thatn the D700 costs. i know a lot of people had been anticipating a 3D and then when canon skipped that segment again that's when all the griping and whining broke loose for a while, but oh well.
but it looks like i will have to live with the 5dmkii (or live with a 1dmkiv brick perhaps), which mostly will be wonderful, but i know how slow a 20d feels compared to a 40D and the 5dmkii is even slower so i'm sure itll feel sluggish for soccer/football.
i just hope those who say it does ai servo much better than the xxD are correct and the ones who say it stinks are incorrect (or at least that my shooting matches those who like it)
or maybe by some miracle they will splt the 1dmkiv into a gripless and built-in grip version, but i jsut don't see canon doing that anymore....
you guys must be mindreaders !!
i was just gonna post that i was looking at the 1d3 and it seems perfect for me except for the 10mp. iQ seems alot better than the 20d. but i think your right, not the camera to carry round your neck all day on holiday.
Thanks for pre-empting me.
Also would have been WAY WAY off topic.
Agree with you totally. And you don't have to "hope" that the 5D II will be better .... as it most definitely WILL be better. It has about 40 upgrades over the 5D, including lower noise with high-ISO, so how can it not be significantly better than the 5D? Even Canon's top executive admitted that the 5D II's IQ is better than the 1Ds Mk III. It's AF is certainly no worse than the 5D .... and it's frame/burst rate is a 33% improvement over the 5D. It's all good.
Peter Le wrote:
No you haven`t used a 5D that is obvious. Yes you are right about 5D users being defensive.....mostly because of spec readers condemning a camera they have never used. You are right that if you only read the specs it doesn`t seem very impressive. The difference is the 5D doesn`t always read it`s own specs I guess. I have used this camera since 2 months after it came out. I live on a island where salt air, blowing sand and very nasty weather is the norm. It has never let me down. Although auto focus is not pro I have a very exceptable keeper rate even in low light. I have shot surfing and kiteboarding many times and have had excellent results even though if you listen to posters here it is not capable of doing this. I am sure these posters are just spec readers also.
What it comes down to is what can a capable photographer do with this tool....not what the specs say. Specs are for readers not workers. I have used the 1D series many times although impressive...to big to heavey...not my bag. That is why I use a 5D and stand behind it when the nonuser na-sayers come out. I only hope the 5D II will be the same. It is not the specs I want...it is what can I make this tool do for me. If it follows what the 5D could do and better I will be one very happy photog.........Peter...Show more →
There have been statements from Canon about the camera being popular amongst pros. It's also been stated by Canon that the camera is perfect for weddings etc.
That's Canon USA marketing. Canon Inc and Canon USA have significantly different corporate mindsets. Having read Chuck Westfall over the years, it's become clear that even Canon USA finds Canon Inc "inscrutable." Canon USA takes what they get and do their best to market it in the US,
However, Canon Inc has a clear concept of what they consider "consumer" and what they consider "pro," and they have also stated that they intend to keep the line between them bright.
RDKirk wrote:
That's Canon USA marketing. Canon Inc and Canon USA have significantly different corporate mindsets. Having read Chuck Westfall over the years, it's become clear that even Canon USA finds Canon Inc "inscrutable." Canon USA takes what they get and do their best to market it in the US,
However, Canon Inc has a clear concept of what they consider "consumer" and what they consider "pro," and they have also stated that they intend to keep the line between them bright.
it seems like in their mind the 5D's are sort of in a sense FF rebels, only since the 1 series are better built and faster than the xxD so the 5D are better built and faster than the rebels. Sort of an upper class rebel or soemthing haha. They end up with better imaging performance than the xxD and 1D (but not 1Ds of the same time frame) and better build but worse general body performance specs than the xxD. Rebel is the poor man's entry to DSLR and 5's are poor man's entry to FF.
Currently it has jumped the 1Ds sensor and is kind of the landscaper pros camera already, but they will soon fix that with the 1DsMkIV.
in very rough terms, it's not really exactly comparable.
and better build but worse general body performance specs than the xxD.
I basically disagree with you there. The 5D has about the same level of construction and component quality and design as the xxD series. Canon has made some different compromises in the 5D compared to the xxD cameras in some areas in order to incorporate a 24x36mm sensor in a camera that's still within the "consumer" price margin.
Take, for example, the shutter lag. While the 5D is slower than the xxD cameras--given that it's handling larger and more massive mirror and shutter mechanisms and pushing more data--it's still much faster than a DRebel. The 5D is only about 20 microseconds slower than a 50D, while a DRebel is about 100 microsends slower.
The differences between the 5D and the xxD cameras are quantitative, not qualitative--as are the differences between the 1D and the 1Ds. The 5D has as distinct a line between it and the DRebels as does the xxD cameras. It is not by any means merely a DRebel with a large sensor.
jaypod wrote:
ill ask my previous question another way.
i am not a pro photographer but would like to be. i cant afford to get a 50d and another camera. i cant change brands due to owning a few L lenses and loving them. i mainly shoot on holiday, people, animals, very occasional birds, scenery, sunsets and flowers. i do a fair bit of macro shooting at home. ive been taking buildings in london and abroad ie the lloys building, empire states ect some at night with the lights on.
some shooting at amature dramatic shows my wife is in (inside under stage lighting)
i want to upgrade from the xxd series as i want to improve the quality of my shots especially on night shots and high iso shots and be able to print stunning pictures at A2. so what are my options without spending $8000 on a 1ds3?
i can see the 5d2 as my only option. $3000 is about my limit.
i can really see the improvement in quality between the sample pictures of the 5d2 and the 50d especially at iso 800 and above. a hugh difference in iso 1600 and 3200...Show more →
Another option is to spend $1400 on a 5D "Classic".
skibum5 wrote:
.... and 5's are poor man's entry to FF.....
The problem, which been mentioned above, is that many of us will likely never consider a 1 series, regardless of price.
On paper, a 1 series would be perfect for me, but there is just no way in Hell I'm going to lug a 1 series around all day. I do photograpy as a hobby, for fun, and my bag is heavy enough as it is. If I shot for a living and had to get the shot, then I'd proably use a 1 series for the AF alone.
Funny, I was so excited about this camera (5DmkII) and the excitement has worn off. Almost want to start looking for a used 1DsmkII instead. I think the interest in the video for family shots and the low light abilities are the only thing that keeps the fire going. 21mp is not a deal breaker for me, never was.
Gil_W wrote:
Funny, I was so excited about this camera (5DmkII) and the excitement has worn off. Almost want to start looking for a used 1DsmkII instead. I think the interest in the video for family shots and the low light abilities are the only thing that keeps the fire going. 21mp is not a deal breaker for me, never was.
Gil
i am in the exact same boat. i was really hoping that Canon would release a camera that is almost the same as the D700 and when i saw the announcement, i was VERY disappointed to say the least. then, i started thinking about the video and how great it would be to have a great IQ cam that can also do video for those precious times (i have a 4 months old baby at home so i am in the market for a video cam anyway). now, 2 months after, all the excitement wore off and i really don't know if i should even bother getting this cam (i am number 2 at my local dealer so my number can be up any day now) or simply wait for the 1DmkIV which will no doubt have all the great 1D features that i love so much as well as the video feature.
i wonder what kind of ram and chip you would need to make a panorama with 4-5 photos at 21mp each. would i need to go on holiday for a few days?
also with the 100mm 2.8 macro how much closer would i have to get to my subject to get a 1-1 ratio. i think at the moment its about 10" or under. i can only dream at the iq and detail youd get looking at a fly 1-1 the lenses and hairs and colour rendion of the abdomen must be amazing.
jaypod wrote:
i wonder what kind of ram and chip you would need to make a panorama with 4-5 photos at 21mp each. would i need to go on holiday for a few days?
also with the 100mm 2.8 macro how much closer would i have to get to my subject to get a 1-1 ratio. i think at the moment its about 10" or under. i can only dream at the iq and detail youd get looking at a fly 1-1 the lenses and hairs and colour rendion of the abdomen must be amazing.
Personally for panos, I would shoot it in sRaw using the 5DmkII instead of seeing if I can crash my memory (4gigs). Unless you are making a billboard, no need to use 21mp. Distant detail may be better at 200%+ zoom. Same with the macro, don't think you would see that much difference unless you make very large prints. It's still just a 100 macro lens and would look about the same using several cameras that are out there that have much less mp. Colors should be better, low light captures will be better, and crops will retain more detail.
I'm not poo pooing the camera (I'm getting one), just don't expect miracles.
dont expect miricles, will be nice to see the detail at A2 though. big wow factor.
forgot it does sraw. will have to take advantage of this. how does sraw work. is it compressed raw file, or does it use less pixels?
jaypod wrote:
dont expect miricles, will be nice to see the detail at A2 though. big wow factor.
forgot it does sraw. will have to take advantage of this. how does sraw work. is it compressed raw file, or does it use less pixels?
It's less pixels. There are 2 sRAW settings, I'm guessing because I don't have the specs in front of me, but one is around 10 pixs and the other around 6.
I expect image quality about as good as my 1Ds but much better in low light. The 21 mp is actually too many for me and I still might back down from this deal even though I am #1 on my dealers list
The image quality shooting macro/close up with my 1Ds and my 100 or 180 is fantastic, better then my xxD cameras and mkIIn. I am hoping for the same quality with the 5DmkII. But the 1Ds and it's image quality is kind of a classic in itself.
I do believe the ability to crop and retain detail at 21mp will be a bonus for us wildlife and macro shooters.
michael49 wrote:
The problem, which been mentioned above, is that many of us will likely never consider a 1 series, regardless of price.
On paper, a 1 series would be perfect for me, but there is just no way in Hell I'm going to lug a 1 series around all day. I do photograpy as a hobby, for fun, and my bag is heavy enough as it is. If I shot for a living and had to get the shot, then I'd proably use a 1 series for the AF alone.
yeah, same here, i don't want to lug a brick around on hikes or a day running all over the place on vacation, a 40D or 5D ok, but a 1 series just is a pain in the neck in that case.
ideally i'd want a compact 1 series without built-in grip, i.e. like a Nikon D700 or the Canon EOS 3D film camera. Well maybe not quite a full on compact 1 series i would be willing to give away some of the fps, shutter life, 100% VF, weather-sealing, etc. and stuff to save some money, those are a bit rich for someone not making their living with the cam, so maybe more D700ish than a 100% true 1 series without grip.
orangefirefish wrote:
there's a 4GB limit on the video clip size... how many minutes does that work out to?
about 12 in 1080p mode. But that is seriously pretty long by almost any standard. Any movie sort of thing a continuous 12 minute take is pretty rare and in everyday stuff how often do you really shoot some animal or whatever for more than 12 minutes straight. Plus once it stops you can restart another 4GB file again in like a couple seconds anyway.
