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Archive 2008 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread

  
 
skibum5
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p.126 #1 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


azurekenzo wrote:
Nah nah, he's right. 5D is just a shame, a huge mistake of Canon, an inferior of both 1D and xxD. People are stupid enough to buy the 5D with its terrible specs, including me, who never learn the mistake and ordered a 5D Mk II.


listen i may get a 5dmkii myself

that still doesn't mean that the fps will come close to a 40D
same goes for mirror blackout time
shutter lag
buffer

just because canon makes it doesn't mean every last spec is the best in the world, come on.

how can you deny that the body performance specs are mostly much closer to a rebel than to a 1 series?

do we need to be so defensive about canon that we need to make up facts?



Oct 18, 2008 at 01:25 PM
skibum5
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p.126 #2 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


jerrykur wrote:
The 5D works fine. None of these are real issues in using the camera. Have you shot with a 5D?

Also, AF at f8? My 1DMK2 screams at 1.8 (200/f1.8), is good at 4 (300 f4), and slowish at 5.6 (400 5.6 and 100-400 f5.6). I can't image I would even want to use it with any fast subjects at f8. Also, the 5D will focus at f8 if use a 3rd party TC(Kenko or Tamron) that reports the original aperture.It will just be slow.

FWIW, when shooting vehicles coming straight at me from 30-70 mph with a 100-400 f5.6L the keeper
...Show more

no i haven't used a 5D i have used some 1 series, xxD and rebels
and for sports you definitely can tell the difference in how they function
so yeah they are real issues in real world usage.

as for the f/8, i didn't say i care about that so much myself, but someone else asked the question and there are some BIF shooter who do care.



Oct 18, 2008 at 01:28 PM
skibum5
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p.126 #3 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


RDKirk wrote:
You don't realize that the slower framerate, greater mirror lag, and "smaller" (in terms of frames of storage) of the 5D compared to the APS-C cameras is entirely because of the larger mirror, shutter, and frame data?

In terms of production cost for those components, the 5D is probably about equal to the 50D. If you want to push a 24x36mm 21mp image to those speeds, you have to beef up all those components considerably above "consumer" camera price points.


true it takes move to move a larger mirror, that said it doesn't take $4000 more.
i mean there were some old EOS film bodies that had fantastic performance specs and were only $1000 above the rebels (plus they had to physically pull the film too).

but this was not about cost or value but about actual performance in the end, nothing more nothing less.



Oct 18, 2008 at 01:31 PM
skibum5
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p.126 #4 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


> the way you stated it. You made a blank dismissal of the camera, despite the >fact that many thousands of working pros use this camera on a daily basis.

well since the topic was on performance, I meant performance not physical housing, sorry if it was confusing.

>Most people who own this camera, and who have posted here, have disagreed >with your statements, in what they have said in their posts. You obviously do not >use this camera, so you are not qualified to make the comments you have. If you >id use the camera, you wouldn't be making the comments.
>Please do not now say that you do use this camera, because it simply is not >believable.

i have not used a 5D and i have never claimed to.

that does not change the fact that, as per the original question, it does not have a pro-AF module that can AF with an f/8 lens or lens/TC combo.
someone asked if the 5D was a pro body since canon told him only pro bodies can do AF with f/8 lenses. And I said no it does not have a pro body and in fact the body (performance) is closer to rebel than 1 series.
I wasn't even saying that was a terrible thing or a great thing or anything, just that is the fact.

I don't need to have used a 5D to be bale to read the specs table. The specs table says the xxD have faster frame rates, less shutter lag, shorter mirror blackout, larger buffers, etc.

facts are facts.

nobody on any of the forums are more defensive than 5D users.

>You don't understand why some of the specs are what they are, and aren't >making any allowance for cost.

i never said anything about cost or value or why anything is the way it is in my response to that guy.

The body in many ways acts more like a rebel (although better) in usage than a 1dmkiii.

>This camera doesn't sell for$4,500, much less for $8,000. Because of that, to >compare the relatively minor, for most people, differences in fps, or shutter lag, or >possibility of not auto focusing at f8 as a non starter for most pro's is simply >wrong. Very few working photographers care about these things the way you >seem to. Only if their particular professions REQUIRE it, do they care.

but if you do want to get into this most of the people i am around do care about those things, so it depends upon your perspective. there have been many crying out about AF and speed and so on. It depends upon your crowd.

for lots of stuff i do myself it doesn't matter a whit.
for some stuff i do it will be a pain in the neck and a little uncomfortable to suddenly feel like i'm using a slug compared a 40D.

>Far more pro photography is deliberative, rather than rushed, where the 1D >excells.

i don't know what the #'s are but lots of pros (and non-pros) do PJ and shoot sports, action wildlife.
maybe there are more studio/wedding/pure landscape.
i don't know the numbers.
i think the 1dmkii and 1dmkiii sold more than the 5D/1dsmkiii/1dsmkii but i could be wrong.

i do a mix of everything myself from slow, deliberate shots on a tripod using manual focusing to instant rapid fire stuff.

> Few photographers need, and use f8 lenses, or slower models with extenders, >that bring the stop to 8 or slower.

true most don't, but a few do, and i never said otherwise, i just answered the guys question. someone DID actually ask.

>Again, almost every poster who owns the camera has stated the the autofocus is >just fine on the old model, and the new one is somewhat improved.

hopefully, i'll see
it also depends if you ever try to take it out for tricky BIF or sports stuff which most 5D users haven't done a lot of. The few who seem to have give mixed results, some say it's pretty terrible others say it's really solid, so I don't know, i'll find otu for myself.

>I've had my camera out in the rain, cold, and heat. On the beach, and high winds, >and it hasn't failed yet. I'm sure than many others can say the same thing. And >the new model will be better!

i've had a totally non-weather sealed 20D out in the rain and at the shore and nothing ever happened to it. i never said anything whatsoever about fearing that the 5dmkii will fall apart outside of studio. Even the lowest end canon bodies haven't failed me in bad weather yet.



Oct 18, 2008 at 01:50 PM
skibum5
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p.126 #5 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


jray wrote:
Has anyone seen information/posts regarding recording SMPTE(LTC) code on one of the audio channels of the 5DII? I know it records PCM audio, but does anyone know the sample rate? 44.1k, 48k, 32k?


44.1kHz



Oct 18, 2008 at 01:51 PM
skibum5
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p.126 #6 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


jaypod wrote:
ill ask my previous question another way.

i am not a pro photographer but would like to be. i cant afford to get a 50d and another camera. i cant change brands due to owning a few L lenses and loving them. i mainly shoot on holiday, people, animals, very occasional birds, scenery, sunsets and flowers. i do a fair bit of macro shooting at home. ive been taking buildings in london and abroad ie the lloys building, empire states ect some at night with the lights on.
some shooting at amature dramatic shows my wife is in (inside under stage lighting)
i
...Show more

5d2 sounds to me liike it would be pretty good for that stuff.

i don't think you'll run into the limitations too badly with that stuff (and not at all for at least 2/3 of it and even for the other 1/3 it shouldn't be too bad at all and I'd think the FF light collecting ability would easily outweigh any of that stuff plus i'm not so sure the 50D would even carry out those other 1/3 better anyway, perhaps some of it worse).

50D might get you a bit deeper macro reach, but perhaps not even quite as much as the ratio would suggest.

I don't see why you wouldn't go 5dmk2 with that list. sounds like largely slow/static/low light stuff.







Oct 18, 2008 at 01:58 PM
Mel Gross
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p.126 #7 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


jaypod wrote:
thanks mel,
youve put my mind at ease. i take it your talking about f8 to f11 in camera settings. if you are i think the only time i would use this setting would be to get the dof right for a macro shot. most shooting for wildlife i do at 2.8-5.6 depending on the size of the animal. i much preferr 2.8 for backround blur.
about lenses, ive learnt my lesson there over the years and not i only buy very sharp lenses. if i am going to get this cameera then i will definatly be getting the 400mm L glass.
...Show more

Good. People who are worried about auto focus at f8 and worse, should have more realistic things on their minds. Anyone who wouldn't buy a very fine camera because it might not autofocus at that setting are dreaming. The more expensive bodies may offer this capability, but that's just because on expensive equipment, you get a bunch of goodies that are there simply because the cost allows it to be done, but not always because it's useful, or even good to have.

I'm amazed that some people would even think of using converters on glass, when they should know that it lowers IQ sometimes to the point of going below much less expensive glass.

As I said, emergency use ONLY!

Sometimes, if we need it, we gotta spend what we gotta spend.



Oct 18, 2008 at 02:11 PM
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p.126 #8 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


skibum5
where would you say the main limitations would be for me.
this is a real lurning curve. having loved the 20d and never using a 5d its so hard to tell if i should change series. part of the learning curve is sifting through exactly the above comments like shutter speed, lag f8 ect ect. you can look at the specs all you like but that doesnt tell you how it performs in the real world.
I agree with you, it seems to cover all but a few of my needs. i suppose i could always carry my 20d with me for speed. how do people fare with the 5d on holidays for general shooting?
when people talk about shutter lag i think about the old cameras that you would have to pre emp the action by a .5 to 1 sec. is this actually going to be that noticable?



Oct 18, 2008 at 02:16 PM
Mel Gross
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p.126 #9 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


jaypod wrote:
ill ask my previous question another way.

i am not a pro photographer but would like to be. i cant afford to get a 50d and another camera. i cant change brands due to owning a few L lenses and loving them. i mainly shoot on holiday, people, animals, very occasional birds, scenery, sunsets and flowers. i do a fair bit of macro shooting at home. ive been taking buildings in london and abroad ie the lloys building, empire states ect some at night with the lights on.
some shooting at amature dramatic shows my wife is in (inside under stage lighting)
i
...Show more

I hesitate to do what I said one shouldn't do, which is to offer advice, but I'll say that you look at what you just posted, and look at what each camera offers. If you feel that for that work, you really need high frame rates, swift autofocus with subjects riding hell bent for leather towards you, and total rock-like ruggedness, then you buy the model which allows that.

If you don't, then buy what will give you what you need.

From the images you say you take, it looks that IQ is the most important quality, and that the others are less important.



Oct 18, 2008 at 02:16 PM
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p.126 #10 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


exactly mel,
thats why i dont own the 2x tc. i researched alot on here before getting the 1.4 tcII and the 70-200Lis. the combo is VERY good so all the reviews go and i was right to take their opinions as it is a really good combo in my opinion. i am also reading the reviews between the 300mm 2.8L is + 1.4tcII and the 400mm L 5.6. i do love the 2.8 L lenses. i bought the 70-200mm L IS over the 100-400L because of the 2.8 for low light shooting and great bohek or is it bokeh (blur) and mostly image quality. i know its a little off topic but getting the balance of quality and needs is i would think hard for alot of the camera users on here. unless of course you have the money to buy 2 cameras.



Oct 18, 2008 at 02:25 PM
Desmo
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p.126 #11 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


I don't know if that brings any new info, but...

The very good french magazine "Reponses Photos" has a pre-test on the 5D MkII in their latest issue (200).

They always wait to have a production sample to do the full test, in this case they had in hands a preproduction sample coming from Canon.

Anyway, the first thing they tested was IQ. I guess like all of us they couldn't wait to see the 21 mpix at work!

According to the article the 5D MkII is as good as the 1Ds MkIII @ 100 ISO, but... even better when it reaches 3200 or 6400 ISO !!!!!!!!!!

They publish a 100% crop of a 6400 ISO file which for me is virtually noisefree!!!!!!!!

I'm still not totally happy about other specifications of this body like AF and exposure system, (lack of) flash system, build quality.... But that kind of high ISO performance, if/when it's confirmed by more tests, might well put me on the waiting list !!!!!



Oct 18, 2008 at 03:02 PM
Mel Gross
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p.126 #12 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


jaypod wrote:
exactly mel,
thats why i dont own the 2x tc. i researched alot on here before getting the 1.4 tcII and the 70-200Lis. the combo is VERY good so all the reviews go and i was right to take their opinions as it is a really good combo in my opinion. i am also reading the reviews between the 300mm 2.8L is + 1.4tcII and the 400mm L 5.6. i do love the 2.8 L lenses. i bought the 70-200mm L IS over the 100-400L because of the 2.8 for low light shooting and great bohek or is it bokeh (blur)
...Show more

Converters add a lot of spherical aberration. What you'll find is that while the center third may be good, the quality falls off considerably towards the edges and corners. You must stop down two stops to make that loss reasonable. If you shoot with your main area of interest in the middle, or don't print up in size beyond 11x16.5 or so, then you may be fine.



Oct 18, 2008 at 03:05 PM
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p.126 #13 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


good point mel, i didnt think of that. yet another difference with the 5d2, ive been using the sweet spot in the centre on my 20d.


Oct 18, 2008 at 03:20 PM
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p.126 #14 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


oh and just looked at specs and the 5d2 doesnt have built in flash. not a major prob as i have a twinlight for macro and main flash unit. shame though for holidays, will have to carry main flash around. still would rather have the quality.




Oct 18, 2008 at 03:51 PM
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p.126 #15 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


jaypod wrote:
oh and just looked at specs and the 5d2 doesnt have built in flash.

Good...



Oct 18, 2008 at 04:14 PM
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p.126 #16 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


Mel Gross wrote:
I'm amazed that some people would even think of using converters on glass, when they should know that it lowers IQ sometimes to the point of going below much less expensive glass.

As I said, emergency use ONLY!


<sarcasm>
Which reminds me of Art Wolfe, who's this nature photography hack, and who's seen with TCs all the time. My favorite scene with him is shooting his 400DO on a 1Ds2, with BOTH TCs stacked. And in true Art Wolfe fashion, the resulting images truly sucked.
</sarcasm>



Oct 18, 2008 at 04:34 PM
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p.126 #17 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


skibum5 wrote:
did they expect body or kit first?

they say they dont know that it's up to canon



Oct 18, 2008 at 04:34 PM
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p.126 #18 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


jaypod wrote:
skibum5
where would you say the main limitations would be for me.
this is a real lurning curve. having loved the 20d and never using a 5d its so hard to tell if i should change series. part of the learning curve is sifting through exactly the above comments like shutter speed, lag f8 ect ect. you can look at the specs all you like but that doesnt tell you how it performs in the real world.
I agree with you, it seems to cover all but a few of my needs. i suppose i could always carry my 20d with me
...Show more

no, no the shutter lag is nothing like that bad, not remotely close.
it's nothing like a P&S shoot where you click it and the person has already left the building by the time it fires haha.

you won't notice it at all for regular stuff or care even if you did.

only if you are maybe trying to snap the trigger right the instant you someone makes a certain expression or something maybe the 1 series does it fast enough ot just get it while the 5D misses it and if there is some sports moment that you can't anticipate maybe you still just snag it with a really short lag camera it makes it a little easier to time headers and stuff in soccer but once you get used to it it's not too much worse for that.

unless you are really doing tight action or exact moment triggering you'll never even realize it is slower than a 50D or 1 series.

as for mirror blackout it's really only if you are trying to track some action if it blacks out as long as a rebel or the 5d it obscures your view and makes a tracking a little tougher (i'm suspicious it would hurt AI servo a bit since the system doesn't get to look nearly as often but i could be wrong), but i seriously doubt this would hurt anything you do since you don't list any sports or doing lots of tracking of erratic high speed animals and stuff, it would be more a cosmetic thing for you where it just seems nicer to have shorter lag, but unless you start doing really fancy action tracking i don't think it would come into play and actually hurt anything you do at all. For football and soccer or erratic bird it is much nicer, if not required, to have it shorter, but otherwise i can't see it mattering too much.

if you were shooting lots of upper level sports and serious wildlife action or serious PJ work needing every hope to not miss the exact moment it helps to not have this stuff as slow as on the 5D, but I almost have a feeling for what you do you wouldn't really care.

gotta run finish later.
but from how you are talking and stuff you are mentioning i don't think any of it should be worrying you.



Oct 18, 2008 at 04:39 PM
skibum5
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p.126 #19 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


jaypod wrote:
exactly mel,
thats why i dont own the 2x tc. i researched alot on here before getting the 1.4 tcII and the 70-200Lis. the combo is VERY good so all the reviews go and i was right to take their opinions as it is a really good combo in my opinion. i am also reading the reviews between the 300mm 2.8L is + 1.4tcII and the 400mm L 5.6. i do love the 2.8 L lenses. i bought the 70-200mm L IS over the 100-400L because of the 2.8 for low light shooting and great bohek or is it bokeh (blur)
...Show more

the 1.4x tc does work very well on stuff like the 300 2.8, 400 2.8, 135L 70-200 f/4 IS.

it's not bad but does reduce quality a bit moreso on 70-200 2.8 IS, sigma tele zooms, 300 f/4 non-IS.

it does hurt AF performance a bit, but not as much on the super teles, more on the sigmas and older canon zooms like 70-200 non-IS and such.



Oct 18, 2008 at 04:43 PM
skibum5
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p.126 #20 · Canon 5D Mark II master thread


jaypod wrote:
oh and just looked at specs and the 5d2 doesnt have built in flash. not a major prob as i have a twinlight for macro and main flash unit. shame though for holidays, will have to carry main flash around. still would rather have the quality.



yeah, i'd rather have the built-in myself, isnce i dont do flash photopgraphy too much so it's nice to haveit for the odd moment you suddenly could use it, anyway not the end of the world.

i did find that the sunpack 2000 is relatively inexpensive and compact enough to carry around as a habit. it's not the best flash if you do serious flash work, but i'm usually not allowed to use flash and genrally prefer non-flash look so i mostly just use it in more snapshot type situations or for a little fill when someone is a bit backlit.



Oct 18, 2008 at 04:46 PM
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