eosfun wrote:
Sure, that will be the next target. Sub 1000$ full frame, just like the 300D was the first sub 1000$ DSLR, Canon is gonna be the manufacturer that will bring us a the sub 1000 FF. It's gonna happen within 5 years. Full frame EOSfun for all of us But not now, not this Photokina. Some posters here have way too high expectations from the next camera. They are gonna be disappointed. Canon marketing can almost do no good in this respect. If they had announced premature news a little while ago Photokina organization and all the other participants would be frustrated. Also dealers that have been able to sell their old stock the last months. Their are so many people who have (business) interest in the setlled date of introduction. But now this hype is gonna get over its top and people make up the most unrealistic expectations. When Canon doesn't meet those expectations the whiners and acid naggers will pee their vinegar over Canon. Be realistic, try to understand the meaning of the word 'evolution'. It's not gonna be revolution. Canon will show their technoligical leadership, but not without competion like a few years back when they created this market themselves!
PS. Welcome back to Larry Mowry! You have been missed too long. I hope you are OK? Glad you share the EOSfun with us again! It's gonna be a lot of ROFLMAO's from now on ...Show more →
Thank you...I have very little interest in photography anymore...I use it for EOSfun these days...I follow you and the German fellow who posts quite a bit and is a fabulous photographer.
I'm fine...alive is fine these days ..
This new 5D2 does interest me...as you know, I've had most everything Canon has made in lens and cameras, except the 5D and I have always marveled at the files it produces...so I'll wait and see...
Do you think there will be EOSFUN when people start bitching and moaning about AF/IQ and everything else on the 5d2?
I'm looking forward to a camera with 20+MP. Currently I use an amazing B&W (best I've ever used) action that looks amazing but sometimes ravages my 12MP 5D files. I was really tempted to picking up two 1DS 3's but refrained due to the size of the camera.
A higher MP compact FF camera is exactly what I'm looking for.
The only truely accurate way to judge the quality of noise is in the final use. The best camera for on screen display may be a low res camera with huge photosites. A much higher mp camera is better for print, assuming a linear noise profile.
I believe upressig is more accurate than downsampling for most comparisons. Throwing away resolution is not how we print images.
Edited by dcmiller on Sep 11, 2008 at 01:47 PM GMT
Yohan Pamudji wrote:
> Thanks for your work on that D3 to 1DsIII comparison.
It's a pleasure to be able to contribute something here, where I have learned so much from so many generous photographers.
> I knew that down-sampling reduces noise and comparing images at the same resolution/print size makes the most sense, but for whatever reason I always get caught up with per-pixel noise comparisons. I think the main reason it's still a common yardstick is because it's much easier to quantify with less work than comparing full images with different native resolutions, and for me it's easier to eyeball 100% crops. Also, 100% crops are still valuable for determining the resolving power of a lens-sensor combo for instance, and it's hard to switch gears from using 100% crops for that purpose to using full images for noise comparisons....Show more →
A yardstick it isn't. A yardstick stays the same length. As for being "easier to quantify", it's the reverse. Differing magnifications specifically obstruct quantification. And as for being valuable for determining resolving power of a lens-sensor combo, that's fine as long as you're not looking at 100% crops from cameras with different numbers of pixels. The rule is simple: never compare sharpness or noise in crops at different magnification. It's shocking how often we see reviewers fail to apply this simple method, and draw the wrong conclusions.
For the 1D's, I would love it if that sound record feature could be selectable such that it records audio as you're taking a burst of shots, sort of like a movie but at "only" 10 FPS, then let them either be turned into a small movie in-camera, or let you put together the movie yourself once the pics and sound was on your computer.
I could have used it last night when a brand new Skyline GTR went rocketing by me as I was standing on the side of the road firing away at it as it came towards me and went by. What an awesome looking and sounding machine!!
"Replacing core primes and zooms with higher resolution lenses more suitable for the newer 50-65MP FF sensors that are coming over the next few years. This includes the 24L, 35L, 16-35L (done) and 100-400L, 200 L (done) and over time several of the longer Ls"
Seems to me that if Canon and Sony can make convincing 20+ megapixel FF sensors now, well it stands to reason that making 20+ megapixel FF sensors in the future can only get much easier and much cheaper.
Doesn't it seem rather backward for a camera technology that is projected to make 65 MP sensors to continue bothering with crop? Especially when 20 or 30 MP FF sensors by then will cost peanuts? Remember what is difficult but possible now will be cheap and easy in the future. That seems to be the overriding technological lesson of my lifetime. Why should sensor tech be an exception to this. I can even remember reading about the first Sony Mavica digital camera at school in 1983 I think, things have moved dramatically in the last few years, quality and sensor densities and pitch we could not have dreamed of. All impossibly difficult in easy living memory.
Anyway, what the hell, my uninformed ramblings about DX whiled away a few minutes waiting for the 5D2 clock to tick away a little more!
I remember how low powered my first computer was in 1995, a 133 Pentium!
You were late to the party. I remember how amazingly *fast* my P100 / 32Mb was (and how amazingly expensive). My first computer was a sinclair spectrum...
I hope it's better than that Larry. Are you still able to have some golffun with your friends and swing a club on the green from time to time?
This new 5D2 does interest me...as you know, I've had most everything Canon has made in lens and cameras, except the 5D and I have always marveled at the files it produces...so I'll wait and see... Do you think there will be EOSFUN when people start bitching and moaning about AF/IQ and everything else on the 5d2?
Anyway, the 5D follow up, it might interest you because of its relative compact size (in comparison to your 1D's ) and great image quality but that was in fact as well true for the 5D. I don't no why that was the camera that you didn't own. I mean it's way better than that Rebel /300D you bought as one of the first. And even that Rebel was a great little camera for you isn't it?
Anyway there will be lots of EOSfun after the introduction. For those who'll love the performance of this new camera, for those who want to blabla blabla about the camera without any knowledge, leave alone having one in their hands ever. The bitching and moaning is even EOSfun for some here isn't it? You would say ROFLMAO I am sure
Wish you all the best Larry! Glad to have you back
brainiac wrote:
Noise per pixel isn't the goal. People outside this forum do not buy cameras in order to converse about the merits of 100x100 pixel crops. Nobody should be conned by this per pixel crap:
well it is relevant in some cases, such as sports and wildlife where you may plan to crop in very considerably on a FF camera. But for landscapes and non-dsitance limited stuff, yeah.
skibum5 wrote:
well it is relevant in some cases, such as sports and wildlife where you may plan to crop in very considerably on a FF camera. But for landscapes and non-dsitance limited stuff, yeah.
Rather, noise per unit of sensor area is relevant. But it's the same thing.
Moore's law means that the electronic components inside the camera will get smaller. An entire board will be replaced by one chip as has been done in computers. This will enable very small FF bodies to be made. But, the lenes will still be larger than 1.6 crop lenses. It is the lens/camera size/weight thing that will keep the 1.6 and 4/3 crop cameras around, especially if the micro 4/3 RF type camera gets off the gound and consumers can be convinced that 4 MP/cm^2 will produce better pictures than 20 MP/cm^2 .
This thread is 2 weeks old and has 77 pages. With one week left, it should easily hit 100. More if the teaser adds keep doing the striptease thing.
eosfun wrote:
quote]eosfun wrote:
I hope it's better than that Larry. Are you still able to have some golffun with your friends and swing a club on the green from time to time?
+Yes on the golf...I practice quite often now.+
Anyway, the 5D follow up, it might interest you because of its relative compact size (in comparison to your 1D's ) and great image quality but that was in fact as well true for the 5D. I don't no why that was the camera that you didn't own. I mean it's way better than that Rebel /300D you bought as one of the first. And even that Rebel was a great little camera for you isn't it?
+I sold all cameras and most lenses and settled with the 40D (meters rinky dink but CS3 mostly covers it up as the files are pretty strong) and went to Europe/Italy...I loved it over there...If I were younger I'd move there...+
Anyway there will be lots of EOSfun after the introduction. For those who'll love the performance of this new camera, for those who want to blabla blabla about the camera without any knowledge, leave alone having one in their hands ever. The bitching and moaning is even EOSfun for some here isn't it? You would say ROFLMAO I am sure
PS...I still have my big gas guzzler Dodge Durango...I leave the keys in it with the door open and the engine running in high crime areas and they refuse to steal it...they just drain the gas and leave me stranded...
Wish you all the best Larry! Glad to have you back ...Show more →
brainiac wrote:
...and here are images at iso 12800 from the D700 and 1Ds3, thanks to me:
Maybe I have been kept in the dark (not the first time, I' sure ), but I was not aware that the 1Ds3 had 12800 ISO. How are you creating the image...underexposing and bringing up in RAW conversion?
jrsforums wrote:
Maybe I have been kept in the dark (not the first time, I' sure ), but I was not aware that the 1Ds3 had 12800 ISO. How are you creating the image...underexposing and bringing up in RAW conversion?
DThom wrote:
Moore's law means that the electronic components inside the camera will get smaller. An entire board will be replaced by one chip as has been done in computers. This will enable very small FF bodies to be made. But, the lenes will still be larger than 1.6 crop lenses. It is the lens/camera size/weight thing that will keep the 1.6 and 4/3 crop cameras around, especially if the micro 4/3 RF type camera gets off the gound and consumers can be convinced that 4 MP/cm^2 will produce better pictures than 20 MP/cm^2 .
This thread is 2 weeks old and has 77 pages. With one week left, it should easily hit 100. More if the teaser adds keep doing the striptease thing....Show more →
if you could make an itsy bitsy chip with terrific high iso abilities and 20mp and itsy bitsy lenses to go along with it, all you would lose I guess would be dof.
"hey sonny in my day, we could blur the background".. ah the good old days. Maybe we will have in camera vdof (variable depth of field post processing) to simulate the old skool lenses.
elader wrote:
if you could make an itsy bitsy chip with terrific high iso abilities and 20mp and itsy bitsy lenses to go along with it, all you would lose I guess would be dof.
brainiac wrote:
Sorry - I mis-spoke. I don't think crop factor is going away, or certainly not soon. My point was that there is one day going to be a $600 full-frame camera, and full frame is going to encroach into the consumer end of the DSLR market. After all, a 1000D isn't an IXUS. We might be heading back to the old days of 35mm: pocketable, and SLR. In ten years, crop SLR's could easily be the minority again. There's something about the full frame dimensions that just fits the human frame and SLR paradigm. That's why 35mm was so massive in the days of film. How many people, after using a 5D, are going to settle for a 1.6 crop? My sister is a case in point. Amateur snapper, loved her 5D, broke it, tried a 40D the other day and afterwards spoke scathingly of it. It will be very hard to go back to crop, especially once ff gets cheap enough.
Edited by brainiac on Sep 11, 2008 at 05:47 PM GMT...Show more →
Was your sister disappointment primarily on the crop vs. FF?
I have had 5D since a few months after it was announce...and love it. It does, at times lack for "reach" and fps.
I recently "auditioned" a 40D for a few weeks, as I had need(want??) for both. I found the images quite good and comparable to cropping 5D images...below 3200.
But not now, not this Photokina. Some posters here have way too high expectations from the next camera. They are gonna be disappointed. Canon marketing can almost do no good in this respect. If they had announced premature news a little while ago Photokina organization and all the other participants
) and great image quality but that was in fact as well true for the 5D. I don't no why that was the camera that you didn't own. I mean it's way better than that Rebel /300D you bought as one of the first. And even that Rebel was a great little camera for you isn't it?