Not me. Eos IS fun!
I just talked to my dealer about 50D.
I told him to think about when I can not get together the Money for 5DII.
He just smilled and mentioned: "You will be able to. Expect € 2.200 - € 2.300."
Emile Gregoire wrote:
Stan, Andy - you're both right of course but seeing Canon's history I'd be highly surprised if all of a sudden they'd pull something like that out of their hat. It would be really out of the ordinary, but, as said, I'd be a happy camper: put me down for both a 5D2 and a 1D4 with all the specs mentioned. Nothing is impossible.
Off to have some EOSfun
The D30 and the 1D were both a surprise. The D30 was first a disappointment (non pro body/performance) but then admired for its special image quality.
Then , after appearing to cede pro DSLR to Nikon, out comes the 1D. This camera was so good it caused a major shift to Canon.
Canon has a history of appearing to fall behind and then coming on strong. I don't think we will see another huge announcement until there is some novel new tech. developed. But boring Canon does wake up every once in a while.
I do think the most likely reason for this slow period is Canon was persuaded to let Nikon back in the game.
I also think most people underestimate the qualitative improvements that can still be made in a bayer images. Like the D50 having 1.5 stop improvement in dynamic range.
dcmiller wrote:
Canon has a history of appearing to fall behind and then coming on strong. I don't think we will see another huge announcement until there is some novel new tech. developed. But boring Canon does wake up every once in a while.
I think some segments of the market might think that having HD quality video in a DSLR - with access to all the lenses currently available for them - would qualify as just such a novel new tech ...
You may want to check that 1/200th sync carefully. There is slight shutter darkening at the bottom of the frame in all my testing. I called Canon about this, and they were well aware that the 5d only syncs up to 1/180th with PW's. Anyway, unless Canon's got a 1Ds4 coming out soon, I just can't see them bringing a 5d2 with 21 mp out without some sort of severe crippling. It just would not be in character. They've been all too careful in the past to do dumb things on the non-1 series cameras.
evertdoorn wrote:
yes, but the 5D is all about IQ so it wouldn't make sense that its successor would make sacrifices compared to lower models.
by the way, my 5d actually syncs @ 1/200 with PW's so mileage on this may vary...
globalkiwi wrote:
I think some segments of the market might think that having HD quality video in a DSLR - with access to all the lenses currently available for them - would qualify as just such a novel new tech ...
Don't all digicams shoot video? If it shot full resolution it might be interesting. 720p with very little control isn't particularly useful.
cineski wrote:
You may want to check that 1/200th sync carefully. There is slight shutter darkening at the bottom of the frame in all my testing. I called Canon about this, and they were well aware that the 5d only syncs up to 1/180th with PW's. Anyway, unless Canon's got a 1Ds4 coming out soon, I just can't see them bringing a 5d2 with 21 mp out without some sort of severe crippling. It just would not be in character. They've been all too careful in the past to do dumb things on the non-1 series cameras.
The one I had was more like a 125/th to really get a clean frame without vignetting at all.
Marcus Watts wrote:
Yes Canon would care about those who paid $8000 last year even if it meant losing some market share.
I agree ... that they wouldn't give a damn. If you are talking about a very conservative German company like Leica, that's a different story, but the Japanese is only loyal towards their shareholders and making sure that their bottom lines look good. They are not worried about pissing off those customers they ripped off a year ago.
bobbytan wrote:
I agree ... that they wouldn't give a damn. If you are talking about a very conservative German company like Leica, that's a different story, but the Japanese is only loyal towards their shareholders and making sure that their bottom lines look good. They are not worried about pissing off those customers they ripped off a year ago.
And quite frankly Canon shouldn't care. Those who paid $8k for 1Ds3 last year knew full well what they were buying and how much they were paying for it. Its not like were tricked into it. Cameras like electronics will get better and cheaper over time and if you are buying a camera either as an investment or are expecting your camera manufacturer to keep selling the same model for the same price indefinitely, then thats just silly.
"And quite frankly Canon shouldn't care. Those who paid $8k for 1Ds3 last year knew full well what they were buying and how much they were paying for it. Its not like were tricked into it. Cameras like electronics will get better and cheaper over time and if you are buying a camera either as an investment or are expecting your camera manufacturer to keep selling the same model for the same price indefinitely, then thats just silly."
+1
I own a 40D but I am not bitching that it is now less valuable after the 50D announcement. You buy a digital camera, expect to use it for a few years, then you are going to upgrade it, just like the computer technology it really is. I plan to buy a 5D Mk2, I know full well in advance that one day it will be eclipsed by a 5D Mk3 in due course. I therefore have no basis for complaining when kit gets updated. As we say in England, "The King is dead, long live the King".
Lenses are of course less ephemeral, but even these get upgraded. So be it.
thxs for the explanation. But I really mentioned it serious!
And "Oh my god!" My 30D lost immediatelly maybe € 200 in resale!
How I can purchase the new 5D MK II now? Would Canon give it to me or do me a special price? Would anybody in here loan it to me?
Well, the 5D replacement will definately have video. So all those people that complained about having it, I wonder if the attitude will change because Canon now do it.
Then we can look to how the Canon craps all over the D700 etc posts. And the video that Canon does is the best. God, I can't wait.
A guy under an NDA told me the 5D replacement (didn't even give me a name) is coming out next week. I asked him about 20+ MP resolution or video and he just laughed. He told me I wouldn't be dissappointed.
nikt wrote:
Well, the 5D replacement will definately have video. So all those people that complained about having it, I wonder if the attitude will change because Canon now do it.
Then we can look to how the Canon craps all over the D700 etc posts. And the video that Canon does is the best. God, I can't wait.
My own views against having video is that I think it is improperly mixing two medias. Video and still are two different things that show the world in two different ways. Why pay for and have stuff on a camera that you won't use. There are just more things to break.
One of the arguments of having a 5D rather than a version of the 1Ds, besides the obvious affordability one, is that if a photographer doesn't need all of the additional equipment on the 1Ds why have to lug it around? The same argument can be made for video, tilting monitors and a lot of the other point & shoot type stuff that some SLR users want.
cineski wrote:
Anyway, unless Canon's got a 1Ds4 coming out soon, I just can't see them bringing a 5d2 with 21 mp out without some sort of severe crippling. It just would not be in character. They've been all too careful in the past to do dumb things on the non-1 series cameras.
As said here already, the competition from Nikon and Sony is now harder than for years. Besides, Canon has at least twice done the reversed-order MP stunt: 400D vs. 30D and 450D vs. 40D. And many of us were still willing to buy 40D instead of 450D.
The logic of MP count in DSLR has changed, with
- the obvious technical jump which enabled the sensor of 50D with 50% more MP and 1-1.5 stops lower noise vs. 40D
- the Digic4 enabled inclusion of sRAW1 and sRAW2 formats with noise reduction
Additionally, Nikon is selling their full-pro spec FF D3 with less than €4000 (including 22% VAT). And Sony is coming with a FF 24 MP sensor.
Based on above, I see it extremely unlikely that Canon would release another 1.3 crop camera any more. Instead, in their future FF cameras they can offer
- 1.3 and 1.6 normal speed processed crops to achieve "the cropping gain"
- sRAW images to keep FF file sizes smaller for press etc. use
- and if they have wired the sensor properly, they can read the 1.3 and/or 1.6 crop sized high speed images directly from the sensor with 10 fps or higher
I don't whether it is more economic to use the same sensor in both prosumer and pro bodies. If it is, then Canon could have e.g. a 20 MP FF sensor shared by the next 5D and next 1D, with
- 20 MP and 5 fps for 5D, with single Digic4
- 20 MP and 10 fps for 1D, with dual Digic4
and using the high speed crop modes, the 1D could go as fast as the shutter allows, with 12 MP in 1.3 crop and 8 MP in 1.6 crop.
Using a 24 MP sensor instead of 20 MP would drop the 5D to 4 fps and 1D in FF to 8 fps (assuming 100 MP/sec in 50D is the full throughput of Digic4), but the 1D high speed crop modes would still be >10 fps, with 14 MP in 1.3 crop and 9 MP in 1.6 crop.
Somehow I think current 1D users might find those MP/fps/file size combinations quite acceptable - providing that AF is without problems. Obviously it would outspec the D3 with 12 MP FF and 5 MP DX images.
The speculative spec alternatives above leave ample room for a new 1Ds with 38 MP or so, and it can still be priced almost as high as the medium format camera backs and bodies.
Excellent analysis - except that 20mp seems a bit too much.
As you said, the 5DII and the 1D4 will share the same sensor (with the 1D4 having dual Digic 4s vs a single one in the 5DII). Thus, the speed needs to be suitable/adequate for both models.
The other thing is that Canon's next generation pro cameras are not going to have worse ISO performance than the Nikon D3 & D700. That's a given.
So, if the Digic4 can indeed do 20mp @ 5fps and if Canon's 20mp can be as noise-free as the Nikon's 12mp, then yes, the 5DII could have 20mp.
Not sure if that's possible, though - even with the new sensor tech.
I hope under the pressure of consumers and Nikon, Canon wont release a buggy camera. For me, I will wait a bit after the release as my 5D is still amazing.
