Traveller99 wrote:
Agreed. It also got me to thinking how far ahead of film we are at higher ISO now. Sure you can make some arguments for the quality film under good light / low ISO (although I rarely bother with film as digital is easier and obviously has its advantages too), but I think in low light / high ISO conditions digital is now worlds ahead.
The images in this link are much more impressive to me than those on dpreview. Makes me wonder what they would like if taken in RAW and processed with careful noise reduction.
eosfun wrote:
Yes, the EOSfun went out of it. Too much talk about movies, lunatics that keep talking about the moon, drunk people who believe it's allowed to have any fun here instead of having devotion to the EOSfun. Anyway, let's go back to the rumors. Else this thread is dead and won't make it to the 100 posts!
So let me add about the pricing. I gave you information about the price in another post. Some still believe the the next camera will get it's price at the same level as the original 5D. It won't happen.
Things have changed. Canon created a new market, the premium full frame D-SLR segment. They owned that segment for 2 years without any competition. Even then prices sank. You know why? Because 5D had very good sales and Canon 5D improved to very high levels of efficient productivity. The way they make that 5D sensor is very very innovative and effective. It's incredible. Chuck did tell you about the sensor innovations in some other places in the web. Anwyay, that's how they could lower their price gradually and constantly until the current level of 1500 euro (here in Europe).
Now that others have entered the market that Canon created they are going to fight about positions. Nikon and Sony can't compete at the same level of image quality so they chose features to set themselves apart. The next thing cameramanufacturers offering in this segment can do is, compete with pricing. Canon knows this too. Canon, in the knowledge they have the best sensor production technology for full frame will use this weapen. It will leave Sony and Nikon in the corner of manufacturers that have (lots of) nice features, but behind in image quality. Besides they don't have their full frame sensor production at the same level, so they won't earn as much on every unit, or they will sell a lot less of units when Canon decides to go lower in price. This is the way Canon will go. They have made clear enough when the original 5D was created they want it to be the full frame camera for the rest of us. And they will persist in making this segment bigger as it is very important for Canon being seen as the marketleader. This class, which is the class that avid amateurs and opinion leaders choose to buy. This is the camera for Philip Photo your nephew who knows everything about cameras and tells all his family and friends what brand has the latest the greates. His enthusiasm about the 5D leads to recommandations to friends and families to also buy a Canon. Of course most of them will buy the Powershots or a Rebel entry model. The next camera is very important for that effect, even if sales number stay below the 2% of the marketshare. Exactly like 1DsmkIII camera flagship is important as imagobooster. The next camera will however be a real price fighter with the best IQ in the full frame segment mark my words: it is really going to be EOSfun time!
PS. please try to keep it on the topic and not talk about movies, getting drunk or moontalk over several pages in response!...Show more →
but would it at all match the D700 on features as in AF and fps at least to some extent? As in saying an action cam needs noticeably better AF than a 40D even if not quite as many points as a 1 series and at least 5fps (although more is always nicer). could this new one be an action cam?
Beni wrote:
The Empire Strikes Back was weaker than the one before or after IMO, on the other hand nothing was ever as bad as the abominations that were the 3 newer Star Wars.
what? ESB was great! Not that ANH was bad by any stretch. ROTJ had it's fun but all the same.
In TPM he put in too much dumb kiddie talk forgetting that a great kids film does not talk down to kids, that was what really hurt it and started the whole Lucas backlash (although it did have lots of nice stuff too). AOTC wasn't bad. ROTS was pretty awesome. The last three probably should've been 5 films to give more time to get into the characters properly.
eosfun wrote:
I did already. I am afraid I said too much already in earlier posts, so I won't repeat (but no it wasn't 1599 sorry, that would be too much EOSfun). Just dig in my history.
umm the camera will be in stores by the time someone manages that
Canon's 1DmkIII is the action cam. Yes the next one can be an action cam, just like the 5D is capable of shooting action as long as the photographer is capable to catch the moment. The high burst salvo shooting is not the style of the premium D-SLR.
But why the heck do I answer this anyway, to someone who still believes that EOSfun is about movies. Could you please stay on topic as I requested above...
Tom_W wrote:
You can't "cripple" a camera unless it had a feature and that feature was disabled. The only body that I know of that had features crippled was the original digital Rebel, aka the 300D.
Ironically, I've found that my 5D tracks better than my 40D also. The 40D's AF advantages are in extremely dark situations, and when using the perimeter AF points. Unfortunately, the 40D's high-ISO performance isn't quite up to the level of the 5D so that low-light AF advantage isn't all that useful for me.
it looks like they might have crippled a few things in the 40D FW
someone said they saw some microfocus adjust code still in there.
and even some liveview contrast focus code (although perhaps this latter bit was too prelim to be useful)
eosfun wrote:
OK I'll give you a hint: p68#17 Have EOSfun
as for the movies ok (but honestly nothing new was being said anyway, but more clutter doesn't help granted).
that would be some eosfun (if it follows the old nearly same as cost in US Dollars in the US deal) indeed
$2650 - to save others time.
very, very nice indeed.
but I do hope it has better AF than the 40D/5D since it's frustrating that it's either buy an old 1dmkii or spend $4000 on a mkiii (and people are still complaining about those so who even knows if that does the trick) to get something that focuses better (or use a D700 or perhaps even D300 depending who you believe).
$1400 to $4200 is a big jump.... Even if it doesn't have expanion helpers but at least if the center point could AI servo as well (so long as you can keep it on track) as 1dmkii would surely be nice. And i have seen many people post that beyond naything this would be their #1 priority for improvement.
5fps would be nice too, althouigh i'm not sure how a single dicig iv could handle that, so probably being overly hopeful unless they allow a crop mode or spring for dual-digic (not sure they could do that at $2600 though).
anyway, we'll see. doesn't sound entirely encouraging on these points, but at least it sounds like the non-sports/moving wlidlife dream cam. I still think they should give the option for stuff like 50D and 50Df where you can get better AF for $400 or something more.
regardless, i'm sure the IQ will be fine and the price sounds quite encouraging.
and it would be a dream for landscapes and general photography
and if it is $2650 that would also make my bank account not try to run away.
skibum5 wrote:
5fps would be nice too, althouigh i'm not sure how a single dicig iv could handle that, so probably being overly hopeful unless they allow a crop mode or spring for dual-digic (not sure they could do that at $2600 though).
How do you know the maximum capabilities of the Digic 4? Is there an assumption that the 50D is pushing that processor to the limit of its capabilities? It might not be...
About the ISO 12800 shots - yes they look decent for that high of an ISO. What I am really wondering is, can the AF on it keep up in situations where you would REQUIRE ISO 12800? I have taken photos with my 40D at ISO 3200 that are usable after some noise reduction in PP, but I had to focus manually to get them. Perfect example is a camp fire a few weeks ago. I was shooting ISO 3200 with my 50mm f1.4, which is one of my fastest focusing lenses, and it was hunting to the point that I just had to focus manually, and I was still getting about 1/50 of a sec. Let's see if the 50D and the upcoming 5D replacement can actually pull focus under similar conditions, because I don't care if I can get the same shot at 1/200 sec instead of 1/50 -- I want it to focus. When it comes down to image quality, you are going to select the lowest ISO you can get away with, so unless you are shooting sports, or something requiring a very fast shutter speed, you probably won't use ISO 12800 anyway.
Don't get me wrong here -- I love what my 40D is capable of -- I don't need much more in terms of IQ or features. I want the 5D for the full frame sensor, and don't mind if the increase in resolution is a modest one. I just think it's silly that there is this ISO race to get to 25000+ on these things when there is no way in hell they will focus in light levels that would demand such high ISO for a reasonable shutter speed, even with an extremely fast lens. I think it's more marketing than anything else...
EricDP wrote:
How do you know the maximum capabilities of the Digic 4? Is there an assumption that the 50D is pushing that processor to the limit of its capabilities? It might not be...
true, since it would cost more to make a faster shutter/mirror.
I thought someone said the digic iv was only 30% faster though.
but who knows, quite a few of the rumors do peg it as 5fps.
edit: also, the xxD use the digic to AF too, 1 series don't. maybe the new 5 would also have a separate AF chip and allow the digic to dveote more time to image processing (i have no idea how the pathways, etc. work in the digic)??
ImageHound wrote:
About the ISO 12800 shots - yes they look decent for that high of an ISO. What I am really wondering is, can the AF on it keep up in situations where you would REQUIRE ISO 12800? I have taken photos with my 40D at ISO 3200 that are usable after some noise reduction in PP, but I had to focus manually to get them. Perfect example is a camp fire a few weeks ago. I was shooting ISO 3200 with my 50mm f1.4, which is one of my fastest focusing lenses, and it was hunting to the point that I just had to focus manually, and I was still getting about 1/50 of a sec. Let's see if the 50D and the upcoming 5D replacement can actually pull focus under similar conditions, because I don't care if I can get the same shot at 1/200 sec instead of 1/50 -- I want it to focus. When it comes down to image quality, you are going to select the lowest ISO you can get away with, so unless you are shooting sports, or something requiring a very fast shutter speed, you probably won't use ISO 12800 anyway.
Don't get me wrong here -- I love what my 40D is capable of -- I don't need much more in terms of IQ or features. I want the 5D for the full frame sensor, and don't mind if the increase in resolution is a modest one. I just think it's silly that there is this ISO race to get to 25000+ on these things when there is no way in hell they will focus in light levels that would demand such high ISO for a reasonable shutter speed, even with an extremely fast lens. I think it's more marketing than anything else... ...Show more →
depends what you shoot, if it is action, then ISO6400 lighting isn't all THAT dark and even 12,800 should be possible. If you are trying f/1.2 at 1/60th and ISO12,800 then it might trouble the AF. But many people actually shoot say f/2.8, 1/500 and ISO3200, etc.
heck my 40D seems to AI servo better under ISO3200,1/400,f/2.8 than ISO200,1/4000,f/2.8
Also one often uses the highest ISO setting in tests only because there the noise is most visible. While in actual use, it may be more important to be able to go from previously ISO 400 to ISO 1600, or more, with the new camera.
ImageHound wrote:
About the ISO 12800 shots - yes they look decent for that high of an ISO. What I am really wondering is, can the AF on it keep up in situations where you would REQUIRE ISO 12800? I have taken photos with my 40D at ISO 3200 that are usable after some noise reduction in PP, but I had to focus manually to get them. Perfect example is a camp fire a few weeks ago. I was shooting ISO 3200 with my 50mm f1.4, which is one of my fastest focusing lenses, and it was hunting to the point that I just had to focus manually, and I was still getting about 1/50 of a sec ... ...Show more →
Ah! thanx. That was as far I remember why I asked for a split image screen. O kay. I understand its horrible to focus manually. But that is a chance, a camera gives you. Nice, to be able to use it. When my 30D does not get into focus like i want it, I switch to MF. I would never buy a camera that does not offer MF. Its one of the most important important feature. More important than any weather sealing, horizont line stuff, etc.. Thats it. I do the picture. If a viewfinder does not give me the chance (my 350D did not) its not a camera. I am a photographer. I do the picture. If the camera does not find the focus, I have to tell it, where it is. A 12800 pic is extreme! So if AF does not get it and I want to shoot, I do not ask for "pro" AF, I just switch to MF.
scott f wrote: The one to 1.5 stops noise improvement likely puts in the same category as the 5D, which would be great for a cropped sensor.
Ralph Conway wrote:Yes. Now after 3 years. That will be overcome within the next 3 days.
You know, for all this build-up, it will be very funny if there is NO 5D successor. Suppose the moon reveal picture (with the bottom very hidden) is that way to mask the fact that new camera to be announced, is a series 1, a 1D4.
Don Clary wrote:
You know, for all this build-up, it will be very funny if there is NO 5D successor. Suppose the moon reveal picture (with the bottom very hidden) is that way to mask the fact that new camera to be announced, is a series 1, a 1D4.
Yohan Pamudji wrote:
If the 5DII comes out with 50D sensor tech (gapless microlenses, etc.) at 16MP and a D700 type feature set, a lot of people (including me) will be very, very happy. I'll laugh for joy, and of course chagrin at all those crazy 24MP rumors.
Just have to keep squashing this myth. By your reasoning you should go back to using a 3 megapixel camera. Your reasoning is wrong. There is no high iso penalty for higher pixel density now. There is nothing crazy about a 24 megapixel sensor as (a) it will be no worse at ISO 25600 than a 12 megapixel version of the same technology, and (b) the new 12 and 6 megapixel sRaw modes will mean that you can choose resolution appropriate to the work you are doing.
