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Archive 2008 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread

  
 
BennyR
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p.59 #1 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


Is it hard to do? I need to look into that. I think my 400/5.6 could use something.

I remember reading on the Nikon forum a couple of years ago when this feature was first announced for the 1DMk III. One of the guys said that's the dumbest feature ever and went on to say if Canon can't make lenses focus etc etc..... Well not only did I think that was the best feature ever but of course now Nikon is using it.

You are right, it's probably the biggest feature upgrade from the 40D.



Nov 02, 2008 at 07:45 PM
therock
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p.59 #2 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


@BennyR,

Not hard at all once you understand what the adjustments do as in making a "Minus" adjustment means it subtracts the distance between the camera and the point of focus. So if you are back focusing you want to use minus.
There are some directions in the book but not much, read them anyway.
Shoot in good light @ max aperture.

I shoot wildlife and found the surrounding grass or soil to be a good indicator of where the DOF is.




Nov 02, 2008 at 08:23 PM
skibum5
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p.59 #3 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


jaetie wrote:
that is VERY presumptuous.


I actually got mine for $1030 already, USA warranty and all.

That said it did involve using live.com deal for a kit and then selling off the kit lens for a solid price to someone else using the live.com deal, so not quite a fair reckoning of the actual street price, granted.



Edited on Nov 02, 2008 at 11:28 PM · View previous versions



Nov 02, 2008 at 09:46 PM
UCSB
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p.59 #4 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


Well ... I'm a little down after wrapping up my 50D vs 40D comparison today. Everything (extra detail, DR, AF Micro Adjust, LCD, Live View enhancement) all checked out to my satisfaction. I really like all of the new features, especially AF Micro Adjust and the new LCD. BUT, noise is much worst on the 50D (my tests were performed with ACR 4.6 & 5.1). It is a big step backwards. I'm not going to try and describe the difference ... I have a 5MB file with test crops, but it is to large to host on my normal internet provider's (Comcast) free web hosting service. If I can find somewhere to host the file where it won't be compressed or changed, I will post it later. If you shoot ISO1600 or 3200 on your current xxD or xxxD model, prepare for something much worse than you expect.

I guess that I need to realize that noise reduction (even in situations where I would not have used external noise reduction software) either in JPG or RAW is a key part of getting performance out the 50D.





Nov 02, 2008 at 10:44 PM
GeneO
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p.59 #5 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


UCSB wrote:
Well ... I'm a little down after wrapping up my 50D vs 40D comparison today. Everything (extra detail, DR, AF Micro Adjust, LCD, Live View enhancement) all checked out to my satisfaction. I really like all of the new features, especially AF Micro Adjust and the new LCD. BUT, noise is much worst on the 50D (my tests were performed with ACR 4.6 & 5.1). It is a big step backwards. I'm not going to try and describe the difference ... I have a 5MB file with test crops, but it is to large to host on my normal internet
...Show more


Why not upload a downsampled web sized full image and a few 100% crops of what you think are "problem areas"?


- Gene




Nov 02, 2008 at 11:09 PM
dcad10
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p.59 #6 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


definitely not upgrading to something with worse noise, and ERR99 issues.


Nov 02, 2008 at 11:10 PM
Jim Victory
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p.59 #7 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


UCSB wrote:
Well ... I'm a little down after wrapping up my 50D vs 40D comparison today. Everything (extra detail, DR, AF Micro Adjust, LCD, Live View enhancement) all checked out to my satisfaction. I really like all of the new features, especially AF Micro Adjust and the new LCD. BUT, noise is much worst on the 50D (my tests were performed with ACR 4.6 & 5.1). It is a big step backwards. I'm not going to try and describe the difference ... I have a 5MB file with test crops, but it is to large to host on my normal internet
...Show more

You could always use DPP and get better results from your raw conversion but if your workflow requires ACR you'll have to wait awhile before you'll get optimum performance from it. It took Adobe 6 months of fine tuning before the raw converter for the 40D was acceptable.

I saw the same thing with every Canon DSLR I have owned starting with the 10D, including every 1 series except the 1DsMKIII. Even though 4.6 and 5.1 are not beta versions they are still not the real deal. Future updates to ACR will include fine tuning to ACR for existing and new cameras added in this version. Adobe just got it out so you could use it now but it isn't fine tuned.

Jim



Nov 02, 2008 at 11:38 PM
UCSB
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p.59 #8 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


Jim ... thank you for the recommendation and insights. I have noticed that DPP does a better job than ACR on noise at this point in time. I also noticed that ACR + DFine 2.0 does a good job also ... may be able to maintain more detail.


Nov 03, 2008 at 12:51 AM
UCSB
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p.59 #9 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


GeneO wrote:
Why not upload a downsampled web sized full image and a few 100% crops of what you think are "problem areas"?

- Gene



Gene ... thanks for the suggestion ... I'll split the file up tomorrow and post it in pieces. It may save someone some tedious work.



Nov 03, 2008 at 12:56 AM
rd4tile
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p.59 #10 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


I'm seeing a lot of noise as low as ISO400 especially in blue sky where I never see any with my 1D3 at identical exposure levels. This body seems noise prone to any under exposure no matter how small in some situations.


Nov 03, 2008 at 08:18 AM
Daan B
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p.59 #11 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


rd4tile wrote:
I'm seeing a lot of noise as low as ISO400 especially in blue sky where I never see any with my 1D3 at identical exposure levels. This body seems noise prone to any under exposure no matter how small in some situations.


I agree...

I have also seen ISO 800 shots that contain banding in shadow areas of the frame (RAW converted by ACR 4.6):

http://www.belgiumdigital.com/infocus/foto_uitrusting/Canon%2050D%20_%20EF-S_18-200mm_review/5

Download the RAW files - the ISO 800 shot of the bottles contains horizontal banding in the upper right corner.

This is really bad



Nov 03, 2008 at 08:37 AM
Ulan
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p.59 #12 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


I tried to compare 50D to 30D for resolution. So I took a book : "Madame Bovary" (GUSTAVE Flaubert), put it to stand vertically on my desk and took photographs of the book and its environment at a certain distance (the same for both cameras). Settings were : flash, AW automatic, ISO 1600, f 2.8, speed Canon 50D (1/250) vs Canon 30D (1/200), lens Canon 17-55 EF-S IS USM (with stabilizer ON), AF one shot and central collimator. Processed first with DPP (same NR for both), then cropped at book size in Photoshop Elements 6.0 and saved in internet format. The size of the book on both samples must be the same before cropping.

The result is clear : you can easily read the text photographed by the 50D but you can't do it easily (or at all in some parts) with the 30D. Unfortunately I don't know how to post the pictures in the post.

I have no 40D, so I can't say anything. But the methodology can be tested by others. Have a try. Maybe my test is a flaw, I am no specialist, just a "Joe the consumer".







Nov 03, 2008 at 01:24 PM
toonhorse
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p.59 #13 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


Ulan wrote:
The result is clear : you can easily read the text photographed by the 50D but you can't do it easily (or at all in some parts) with the 30D.



Ulan I think this makes sense in that the 50D sensor is going to outresolve the 30D, however at what expense in terms of noise? What I mean is that the text might be readable when using the 50D but the overall image may (or may not) contain more noise. How do your samples compare in this regard?



Nov 03, 2008 at 02:42 PM
Ulan
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p.59 #14 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


toonhorse wrote:
Ulan I think this makes sense in that the 50D sensor is going to outresolve the 30D, however at what expense in terms of noise? What I mean is that the text might be readable when using the 50D but the overall image may (or may not) contain more noise. How do your samples compare in this regard?


Well, it is a pity that I can't post the 2 pics, but it seemed to me that noise reduction with DPP gave a better result for the 50D than for 30D.

Anyway I am going to perform the test again when I have time (in a week), and in more controlled situations. I just would like to know if it is possible to have back(front)focusing with a same lens when I use one camera or another.



Nov 03, 2008 at 02:56 PM
Imagemaster
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p.59 #15 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/E50D/E50DA.HTM

Even at ISO 3,200, the Canon 50D's sensor and processor combination delivers smoother images than its predecessor the Canon 40D. Where the 40D mostly suppressed the chroma noise in the shadows, you can still detect more green and purple blotches amid the luminance noise, while the 50D's shadows are more even.

High ISO. Getting hand-holdable shots indoors and at night is the holy grail of photography for a great many of us. From consumers to pros, we want our cameras to capture the interesting light we see with our eyes. Consumers especially don't care why it's difficult to do so with digital cameras, they just want the shot. Enthusiasts and pros know why it's harder, but few carry tripods to stabilize their cameras for slow shutter speeds. Instead they invest in fast lenses and image-stabilized cameras and optics. What's been missing is faster sensors, and now camera companies are working to meet that need. Canon's 50D does well enough in most situations that you can feel safe shooting at up to ISO 800 with little loss to image detail, even when printing at 13x19 inches; ISOs below that can withstand printing up to 20x30 inches. At ISO 1,600 detail is still good, but 13x19 is probably the upper limit thanks to noise and softening due to suppression.

Those are some pretty large print sizes.

ISO 3,200 shots are still pretty decent at 8x10, with little chroma noise, but ISO 6,400 shots start to get a little grainy, and banding starts to show up in the shadows; when shadows make up a large part of the image, banding is severe. At ISO 12,800, noise gets worse, with yellow and purple blotches, as well as noticeable hot and dark, and sometimes bright red pixels scattered among the noise. Only when you set the noise suppression to high are these images usable at 5x7-inch sizes, and even then you have to forgive the banding and blotchiness. Depending on what you shoot, you might not notice the grain, and if you shoot raw and process the images with a good noise suppression program, you might come out with more usable images, but for the most part I suggest steering clear of ISO 12,800.
The Canon 50D almost achieves parity with the Nikon D90 and D300 at ISO 6,400 when noise suppression is set to high, but falls short of the mark. Of course, some of that is due to the smaller pixels on this sensor when compared to the 12.3-megapixel sensor in the Nikons.

Naturally, the Nikon D700 does better at ISO 12,800. We're comparing apples to watermelons at this point, since the D700 is a 12.1-megapixel full-frame sensor, with much larger pixels, but if you're looking for a superb low-light camera, you might want to consider the D700 (we have not seen samples from the Canon 5D Mark II as of late October, so we can't say how it will compare to the D700 at its highest ISO settings).

The Canon 50D delivers high enough quality from ISO 100 to 3,200, though, that most users will just be impressed. Shooting indoors with a reasonable shutter speed is usually achieved at ISO 1,600 or 3,200, so there's still room to play, especially if you have a faster lens.



Nov 03, 2008 at 07:01 PM
George.ML
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p.59 #16 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


That's for JPEGs out of the camera and NR on.
Did you know that the 40D with NoiseNinja ($79) has less noise than the 50D.



Nov 03, 2008 at 07:09 PM
Imagemaster
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p.59 #17 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


So what?


Nov 03, 2008 at 07:15 PM
abam
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p.59 #18 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


just because.


Nov 03, 2008 at 07:22 PM
citro
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p.59 #19 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


rd4tile wrote:
I'm seeing a lot of noise as low as ISO400 especially in blue sky where I never see any with my 1D3 at identical exposure levels. This body seems noise prone to any under exposure no matter how small in some situations.


Why do you compare a x0D camera with a 1D series ?



George.ML wrote:
That's for JPEGs out of the camera and NR on.
Did you know that the 40D with NoiseNinja ($79) has less noise than the 50D.


You forget to specify how is 40D without viagra... sorry, NoiseNinja



Nov 04, 2008 at 06:31 AM
Brit-007
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p.59 #20 · Canon EOS 50D Master thread


I really do not think that Adobe has got it with the reverse engineering of the files from the 50D. This is probably why Apple has not released an update yet to support the camera in Aperture. On the Aperture blogs, most people are referring to converting to DNG and then importing.

There was a user who decided to go the route of DPP, convert to jpg or tiff then import and the files were noticably better. Just a thought. I will need to process my files and see for myself. I was trying to avoid installing the Canon software but at the moment, I think this is the only way.

Remember, the processor is entirely different to any other. Remember back in the floppy day when Microsoft brought out Windows 95 on discks which could not initially be copied. They produced disks with data written on the sides of the troughs. I think it is a similar analogy.

Just my opinion.



Nov 04, 2008 at 05:55 PM
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