If you don't like shiny, silver reflectors, spraypaint them!
If you don't like the logos, tear 'em off and slap an Apple sticker in its place!
I tried out some D-Lites and a BXRI not long ago and I thought they both sucked, both in specs and durability. If you're only gonna spend $450 for a mono, PCB gives you some of the best specs around. Just look at his flash duration listing, almost every other manufacturer forces you to pay close to $1k or more for a decent t.1.
I pulled off the Bee logos, cut patches of industrial-strength Velcro to fit, and slapped those in place. Very handy for sticking on small devices like the radio remote control--I needed some Velcro on them somewhere, and that was a big spot on each side begging for a mod.
Regarding the branding and marketing aspect, Paul C Buff, Inc, seems to be doing pretty darned well in sales...it appears bees can fly regardless what the experts say.
RDKirk wrote:
I pulled off the Bee logos, cut patches of industrial-strength Velcro to fit, and slapped those in place. Very handy for sticking on small devices like the radio remote control--I needed some Velcro on them somewhere, and that was a big spot on each side begging for a mod.
Regarding the branding and marketing aspect, Paul C Buff, Inc, seems to be doing pretty darned well in sales...it appears bees can fly regardless what the experts say.
Infidel!!! That's like covering the Apple on your Powerbook. Just give it up and be one of the proud, the many - the abductees.
sboerup wrote:
I think we could be safe to assume that Paul won't lose any Bee customers if his products looked more professional. Cmon, bees and bright colors make it look like Toys-R-Us . . . not that its going to detract one from using it, but I think, simply because this is what everyone says, that if the product design looked less like toys, people wouldn't complain.
Paul does it because he can, and he can piss off a lot of people doing it and they'll still sell.
On the other hand, the ABMAX unites tout some impressive specs. I'll be honest in that its hard for me to swallow the cheesy colors and designs....Show more →
Look down the chart of comparison products - mostly black and "professional" looking in Model T black. Choose one that comes close to AB Max - whoops - not there, pay your $1000 and you're good to go. You be a bit limited with capabilities compared to AB MAX but your oh so correct pro friends will accept you. Carry them in a black Mercedes and you'll convince everybody you da man.
Just met with the PDN people. They tell me all the competitors are in financial trouble, yet our April was a record month, Q1 a record quarter and 2008 a record year (as were the prior ten. Hmmmm something wrong here - don't 'dem peeps know what's what
No insult intended - just having fun while your all having a laugh on me and my army of customers who like 'em
Yup ... us pour o'l mizgyded nayeve bumpkins from Podunk jest dunt git it and we be luzin bidnez cuz we gots infeereor quiment wid funee sticcers on dem der litze ... we shur do needz ta be lurnin' us sum brandin skilz.
Deezie wrote:
These are the kind of misguided thoughts that the average person thinks when they open a business, and then they wonder why it fails. The two of you seem to have no apparent knowledge about positioning a brand in the mind of the public.
It is naive to think that appearance has little value and that form over function is the primary motive for decision-making in the human animal. We are driven by appearance, which defines status, health, strength, and the perceived survival of the species. Are you more attracted to the overweight, pimple-faced woman or the supermodel on the cover of vogue? Would you rather pick up that supermodel for a first-date in a late-model BMW or a Ford Minivan in need of body work and a paint job? And do you feel she would be more impressed that the date is special by taking her to an elegant restaurant in an Armani suit or to a burger-joint clad in Kmart's best sportswear?
You guys asking the wrong questions and making false assumptions: "Plus, WHO REALLY CARES what they look like?" "After 30 years in the biz, I can safely say, I have never had a client question me or those I worked for,"
Your concern seems to lie in what the clients think. But Paul is not selling lights to your clients. He's selling them to photographers. And if you don't understand the most basic premise of positioning a brand and how it relates to emotions, acceptance and risk, then you're really not prepared to have an intelligent discussion on how this works. People make critical decisions (especially on purchases) far more on emotion than on reason. Have you not seen the effect that advertising has had on people's buying habits and the massive debt they've accumulated?
Your responses indicate that you don't understand the powerful grip that branding holds in the marketplace. Until then, we'll keep seeing these knee-jerk responses that provide little insight. Of all people to diminish the value of an image or look -- it shouldn't be photographers...
...Show more →
Deezie - I'm shocked - it almost sounds like your might be supporting my marketing. Fact is, 60% love it, 5% hate it and the rest don't care. The odds are in my favor. So it's my party and I'll do what I want regardless of the 5% - as long as my customers approve. That's marketing 101 - though, thank God, I didn't go to marketing school.
Hey Paul, quick question: What's the PLM frame quality going to be like? I know for the price I shouldn't be expecting more than umbrella strength, and I'll already be buying at least a couple of each size the day they're available, I'm just wondering.
Deezie wrote:
...Your responses indicate that you don't understand the powerful grip that branding holds in the marketplace. Until then, we'll keep seeing these knee-jerk responses that provide little insight. Of all people to diminish the value of an image or look -- it shouldn't be photographers...
Climb off your high horse there, fella, and look in the mirror for the source of knee-jerk reactions.
Paul's decades in the business and the obvious success of his businesses show that he does understand the powerful grip that branding has in the marketplace. He wouldn't "Bee" where he is if he didn't.
Paul, I think the part you're missing is 60% would like them no matter what they looked like.. that's not love. I think you would only increase your market with a facelift. Most photographers come to you because of the "bang-for-the-buck" not because you have cartoon aliens and skittle colored lights. The name works great, the visuals... not so much.
On another note, I have to agree with Cineski, frosted tungsten would be huge. I'd actually buy them at a few different temps. Fluorescent temps/tints too. I think it would be fruitful to explore that.
kkertz wrote:
...Most photographers come to you because of the "bang-for-the-buck" not because you have cartoon aliens and skittle colored lights. The name works great, the visuals... not so much.
Hmmm. Let's see: ABs are available in black as well as in "Skittle" colors. Do all photographers buy the black models, and the colored models languish in Paul's warehouse? Nope. In fact, if you look through the "Show us your studio" thread, you'll see one of FM's own who has pink ABs in her studio.
I'd buy black ABs, myself, but I think it's great that options exist for those who want them. And those wacky colors sure do help make the AB ads memorable.
Yeah, I could do without the retro type graphics but that is just my taste - they are not my style (not that I have one so we are clear ).
You can bet I am dusting off my credit card for June, so Paul is doing something right
Would I prefer a black BMW with fawn leather seats to the crap 10 year old SUV I drive - you bet but I don't have the $$$. In this case the AB's drive better then the more expensive one, so bonus.
Deezie wrote:
Your responses indicate that you don't understand the powerful grip that branding holds in the marketplace. Until then, we'll keep seeing these knee-jerk responses that provide little insight. Of all people to diminish the value of an image or look -- it shouldn't be photographers...
What makes you so sure that the Alien Bees' branding is hurting the line? You go on and on an on that we don't understand marketing, we are misguided, blah blah blah.
My argument is that the branding is helping sales. They are hip, fresh, and appeal to a younger crowd. The AB units are distinctive and eye catching.
These aren't selling to high end pros to do studio work. Even if they looked as professional as can be, they wouldn't. For the market PCB is going after, I think he's hitting the nail on the head.
Oh, but I guess we don't understand anything about the marketplace and have little insight because our opinion is different than yours.
Go to the Alien Bees Flickr group and look at the thousands of photos in the pool. A huge set of these are taken by younger photographers. They seem to be very popular with photogs getting into band photography.
The fact that Alien Bees are so damn popular makes your argument look pretty dumb.
I hope I don't get stung like the people waiting for the Einsteins. I was about to buy an AB1600, but will probably hold off now. July is a long time, but the features look great.
kkertz wrote:
On another note, I have to agree with Cineski, frosted tungsten would be huge. I'd actually buy them at a few different temps. Fluorescent temps/tints too. I think it would be fruitful to explore that.
I'll third this. I'd like to buy a set of color matching frosted domes (e.g., full CTO, full tough green, 1/2 versions of both) and a Bastard Amber (for warming skin). It's harder to wrap it w/ Rosco gels unless you use the parabolic reflector which won't work as well in a softbox because it doesn't spray to the sides as much.
Personally, I've been doing a huge amount of lighting w/ strobes and ambient on location. This keeps me stuck mostly with daylight balanced ambient because gelled strobes are inaccurate with achieving correct color temperature. I don't know why that is, or if it's just the nature of gels. It's also hard to use gels on set, where a frosted color corrected glass cover is easy to put on before you head out and is much more set worthy vs. taped gels. There's been quite the resurgence with on camera flashes being gelled and I believe that tungsten studio strobe lighting on location mixed with all color temps would be a big hit. Manufactures are obsessed with a constant 5600 kelvin that they have ignored this creative possibility. Heck, I've been on a few sets where photographers use tungsten hotlamps simply because they want to mix in ambient light but don't like gelling strobes. I've actually used the modeling light with f/1.2 lenses to achieve a few cool shot where I want the ambient mixed in. The issue is, I shouldn't have to shoot wide open and the thought of a solid, set worthy tungsten frosted dome would open up a lot of creativity for photographers.
Paul, your response is another example of your ego getting in the way and not listening to the pros who do or might use your gear. Ignoring a creative possibility is a lack of imagination. I know you probably have a few pros that you converse with, but if you're only on this forum to spew your ego (which you constantly seem to do), it's a complete waste of time to us all.
I had the same opinion on your attitude with your misguided Zeus series of lights, the way they were designed and the way they looked. You had the perfect opportunity to break into the pro segment more, but your attitude is "I don't give a crap what anyone thinks" Well how many Zeus's have you sold? Probably on the low end of things because every time I see a post about someone asking about Zeus experience, the response is empty to 1. Amateurs don't need 1250-2500 w/s's. Pros do. Had you listed to more pro photographers with your designs, I venture to say you'd have sold much more and broken into a segment of the market that you don't seem to consider worthy. Perhaps you're just afraid to go after the hard core pro market? Either way, we're in the trenches and know what does and doesn't work. We also WANT you to succeed as a manufacturer. I'm not saying every time we say something you should jump. But you might want to take a bit more care in noticing because you might be surprised how some of our ideas from a creative standpoint might catch on with the market place. New gear is surfacing every day, and those with a creative edge or allow photographers to do new creative things will, like I said and which you rebuffed, would be absolutely huge.
Cinieski - You have made your opinion of my company and products abundantly clear in past posts. We cater to the 95%, quite successfully I might add. So I guess you can say I care very much what the 95% think and I guess, if you force the issue, I don't give a crap what Cineski thinks when put in these terms.
