p.10 #1 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
I think most of you guys are not thinking clearly. How would you like to go to any public business and be told we will not service you because you are black, jewish, muslim, female, tall , short, fat or skinny. Can you picture a guard at CostCo turning away any women who has her hair cut short. There is a big difference between who you choose to associate with and who you do business with. A pilot of an airliner may be a racist and never associate with Christians and that is ok but when he is working he can not refuse to fly Christians and this has nothing to do with freedom of religion. I own apartment buildings. What ever my personal feelings are I can not ask a persons race, national origin or sexual preference and then use that info as a basis as if I should do business with them. You guys need open your minds and put yourself in the position of a minority or someone who has habits or thoughts that are not shared by the current majority.
good luck with your lives.
mike
p.10 #3 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
Hmmm, this thread has me thinking.
If my church decides to have an "Anti-Homosexual" rally (with anti-homosexual preaching and teaching), I can go out and find a gay event-photographer to provide coverage for the event, and if the photographer refuses to do it, I can sue and get lots of money. Interesting...
p.10 #5 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
RedWhiteandRed wrote:
The 'any reason or no reason' portion of your response is - as I am reasonably sure you are aware - a paraphrasing of a US supreme court ruling regarding an employer having fired an employee on discriminatory grounds. That phrase has subsequently found its way into many boiler-plate disclaimers of dubious validity.
No, this is what you say is racist discrimination. What it really is is the declination of a job you do not want to do. I refuse to take any case where I believe a defendant committed an execution-style murder e.g. Joe Blow robs a 7-11 then kills a clerk to eliminate a witness. Are you saying I am discriminating against that poor unfortunate?"
This is a political thread. It really shows the Democrats and Republicans among us. The Democrats want to regulate everything according to the standards they happen to espouse e.g. that STUPID New Mexico law. The Republications just want this damn government to leave its citizens alone. Unfortunately in this election we have 3 Democrats. One just happens to be dressed in Republican clothing
p.10 #6 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
If I was told that someone couldnt do what I asked because of a religious reason, I would be totally and utterly cool with that, I may even be embarassed for not thinking in the first place. I dont walk into a hallal butcher and get arsey because they dont serve pork.
Mike, you dont know how the photographers phrased the rejection.
"Look, Im really sorry but because of restrictions placed on us by our religion we cant shoot your wedding, here try these guys instead", is totally different from saying "get out of town and burn in hell we dont shoot screaming lesbo's unless we have live ammo"
The second instance is clearly villification and discrimination. The first is a right to be allowed to exercise religious freedom.
Your phrase: "You guys need open your minds and put yourself in the position of a minority or someone who has habits or thoughts that are not shared by the current majority" is exactly what the couple failed to do.
mike young wrote:
I think most of you guys are not thinking clearly. How would you like to go to any public business and be told we will not service you because you are black, jewish, muslim, female, tall , short, fat or skinny. Can you picture a guard at CostCo turning away any women who has her hair cut short. There is a big difference between who you choose to associate with and who you do business with. A pilot of an airliner may be a racist and never associate with Christians and that is ok but when he is working he can not refuse to fly Christians and this has nothing to do with freedom of religion. I own apartment buildings. What ever my personal feelings are I can not ask a persons race, national origin or sexual preference and then use that info as a basis as if I should do business with them. You guys need open your minds and put yourself in the position of a minority or someone who has habits or thoughts that are not shared by the current majority.
good luck with your lives.
mike ...Show more →
p.10 #7 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
> Unfortunately in this election we have 3 Democrats. One just happens to be dressed in Republican clothing
Careful, the size of federal government has ballooned in the Bush years - it's LBJ's 'great society' version 2. Current Republicans love big government (despite any public grandstanding they may do on Fox News). These are not my father's Republicans I can assure you. Ronald Reagan is rolling in his grave they way they spend like 'drunk sailors.'
p.10 #8 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
mrpeepers wrote:
Are you not getting this? A photographer is essentially a PRIVATE business. A PRIVATE can choose NOT to photograph you because you might be butt ugly. Is that racist? Or just petty? You can argue all you want. This decision WILL inevitably get overturned. Mark my words. Capito?
What part do you miss. A business is a business - period. You cannot be a barber for white folk; a restaurant for men or a lawn care company refusing catholics. The law protects folk from discrimination.
In the privacy of your imagination you can be as wrong and as bigoted as you like - but once those mistaken beliefs intrude into your business your behavior is governed by law.
p.10 #9 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
John Power wrote:
What it really is is the declination of a job you do not want to do.
No, John, the declination of the job was not the problem - the declination on the basis of the client being homosexual was the problem. And, it does not take a Philadelphia cellphone lawyer to make that distinction.
p.10 #10 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
I'm sorry but we are all going to get used to this situation 'cause it's not going to go back to the way it was.
IMHO, and as I'm in the Uk, I would expect ALL services would be covered by this anti-discrimination legislation, including Adoption and legal services for when she wants a child.
p.10 #11 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
RedWhiteandRed wrote:
What part do you miss. A business is a business - period. You cannot be a barber for white folk; a restaurant for men or a lawn care company refusing catholics. The law protects folk from discrimination.
In the privacy of your imagination you can be as wrong and as bigoted as you like - but once those mistaken beliefs intrude into your business your behavior is governed by law.
I'd watch yourself calling me a bigot, buddy, totally uncalled for.
Ah, I see where you logic is coming from after visiting your site... You're a lefty nut case. Did I just discriminate against you?
p.10 #12 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
To this point I was quietly reading this thread and admiring the participants for their restraint in discussing a sensitive topic. And then someone has to come along and fart in the elevator. Not mentioning any names. Mrpeepers.
p.10 #13 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
adamp88 wrote:
And that would be really mature of you.
Thank you for proving the point I was trying to make. You have no problem with the lesbian couple doing something like this, but if the tables were to be turned, you cry foul.
I don't see where you questioned the maturity of the lesbians for what they did. Instead, you defended them on the basis of "breaking the law" and "discrimination". But when I present the situation in reverse, your response is a personal jab at me.
Besides, I never said I WOULD do something like this. I was just showing how there is such a double-standard and hypocrisy.
p.10 #14 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
RedWhiteandRed wrote:
No, John, the declination of the job was not the problem - the declination on the basis of the client being homosexual was the problem. And, it does not take a Philadelphia cellphone lawyer to make that distinction.
You agree with me then. The Photog didn't want to do it so he declined
(I have heard of a Philadelphia lawyer but not a cellphone one)
So what's the bottomline here Red. Do you agree or disagree that a photographer should have to pay a fine if he does not want to film a homosexual "wedding" and says so?
As an aside, I love everyone (well almost eveyone), homosexual or not and one thing is for sure, if it wasn't for that side of the fence my daughter would not be the successful dancer she is today...
p.10 #15 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
RedWhiteandRed wrote:
Nope - not at all. You do not do boudoir. You make no discrimination. If you advertised that service and then declined on the basis of sexual orientation - that is discrimination.
I cant even finish reading all the pages without replying to this quote. You will go at any great length to justify YOUR beliefs.
If Steven's primary business was studio/portrait photography and he declined shooting a boudoir session due to his faith how is that any different than what the couple did in NM?
It seems to me you're so full of yourself that you actually believe the crap you write.
Saad great post btw.
Let what happened in NM and the rationale of ppl like Red be a fair warning of what our society and government is turning into. If you dont like where we're heading be sure to vote accordingly.
p.10 #17 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
tomKphoto wrote:
> Unfortunately in this election we have 3 Democrats. One just happens to be dressed in Republican clothing
Careful, the size of federal government has ballooned in the Bush years - it's LBJ's 'great society' version 2. Current Republicans love big government (despite any public grandstanding they may do on Fox News). These are not my father's Republicans I can assure you. Ronald Reagan is rolling in his grave they way they spend like 'drunk sailors.'
I do not understand why anyone would vote for either party they will both tax us all to death.
p.10 #18 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
mrpeepers wrote:
I'd watch yourself calling me a bigot, buddy, totally uncalled for.
Ah, I see where you logic is coming from after visiting your site... You're a lefty nut case. Did I just discriminate against you?
I did not call you a bigot - not at all necessary. Merely pointed out that in the privacy of your - or anyone's - imagination you can be as bigoted as you like.
Edited by RedWhiteandRed on Apr 13, 2008 at 04:52 PM GMT
p.10 #19 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
John Power wrote:
You agree with me then. The Photog didn't want to do it so he declined
Apparently - the decline was discriminatory - and that is the problem.
John Power wrote:
(I have heard of a Philadelphia lawyer but not a cellphone one)
Modern version of the same.
John Power wrote:
So what's the bottomline here Red. Do you agree or disagree that a photographer should have to pay a fine if he does not want to film a homosexual "wedding" and says so?
Certainly - that is discrimination and a violation of statute and is rightly dealt with by the law, court and fine.
p.10 #20 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
XFBO wrote:
I cant even finish reading all the pages without replying to this quote. You will go at any great length to justify YOUR beliefs.
If Steven's primary business was studio/portrait photography and he declined shooting a boudoir session due to his faith how is that any different than what the couple did in NM?
It seems to me you're so full of yourself that you actually believe the crap you write.
Absolutely believe what I write - save for those rare instances of satire.
If the Steve is a studio/portrait photographer and declines boudoir because he does not do boudoir - then fine. That is not discrimination.
If he decided to become a boudoir photographer and then refused a client on the basis of race, religion, sex, sexual orientation or other identified grounds - then that is discriminatory.
If a mechanic fixes cars but not motorcycles - they may decline motorcycles - but may not decline to fix your car on the basis of your skin color or religion.
