p.8 #1 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
I saw this post yesterday when it first rolled up, now it is gone "Red Bull" on us! Serious guys, its madness. Let's talk about Gary Fong or something!
I would like to weigh in though. It's America do as you please! Carry a gun on your hip? It worked fine in the old west, it might be a good idea today (Virginia Tech, Columbine, etc). Disagree with a social issue? No prob, you've got FREEDOM OF RELIGION AND FREEDOM OF SPEECH! We're getting so stinkin' socialist around here.
Anyway, let's allow this thread to die!
Edited by scott shoemake on Apr 12, 2008 at 08:34 AM GMT
p.8 #4 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
scott shoemake wrote:
Carry a gun on your hip? It worked fine in the old west, it might be a good idea today (Virginia Tech, Columbine, etc).
When high schoolers or college students fight over the littlest things, they can simply have a duel on campus to settle the problems quickly, just like the old west and in some schools today
There'll be a lot of A's given out to students whether they deserve it or not for sure
With all of the students carrying guns, I can just see people rushing in to become teachers since the campus will be SO safe then
"From my cold dead hands!" Can you ever imagine God delivering a fine quote like that?
p.8 #5 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
Welcome to our Brave New World, where the self-proclaimed "tolerant" segment of our society now triumphantly proclaims: "Intolerance will NOT be TOLERATED!"
...and blindly fails to see the incongruency of their actions.
We believe in free speech! But, not the kind of free speech "we've" deemed to be offensive or 'hateful'!
We believe in tolerance and inclusiveness! But, we will not tolerate or include those "we've" deemed to be either intolerant or unworthy of inclusion.
To all the PC folk on the planet, get a mirror and a tape recorder and take a closer examination of thyself. The hypocrisy would be laughable, if the consequences of your New Thought Police weren't so damning. But, oh, wait.. so long as it's damning those you don't agree with or you find particularly offensive to you, it's deemed acceptable.
Can I please get off of the PC moral merry-go-round this country is spinning on? It's making me sick.
p.8 #6 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
> It's making me sick.
What's making me sick the failure for the majority of this thread to understand that when you incorporate, you give up free speech rights - those are for citizens, not business entities.
If this photographer in question was an individual, this wouldn't be an issue.
p.8 #7 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
mfromb, you hit the nail squarely on the head. "Tolerance" has come to mean, "you must do things my way." (my = whoever is doing the speaking.)
Laws are usually written to protect ourselves from one another, or go force people to things a certain way. How many photographers can keep up with all of the laws, particularly those written more than 50 years ago? I can't.
Most posters on this site are willing to help others -- and do so in a myriad of ways.
If someone does not want to a certain type of photography, for whatever reason, they should be able to turn down the business. I've done that in my "real" business, and suspect others have as well, when, after studying the situation, I realized that it would not be in my or the potential client's best interests to do so.
The law, in this particular case, was used to hit someone over the head. That's not very nice. An attorney told me years ago that there are a lot of things that are "legal" that are not "right." This is one of those cases. It could be expensive, as well, for appealing the ruling might cost more than the fine.
p.8 #8 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
Tom, you missed it buddy. I understand the legal ramifications and the nature of dba, sole, llc, inc, partnerships, etc. I also alluded to concealed weapons being legal. I was simply making a point of how things SHOULD be. I'm through, have fun with this wacky little thread.
p.8 #9 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
George, the photography company's fine and legal fees are being paid by outside interests. Other than her name in the paper (that will CERTAINLY bring her lots of business in her desired customer base), she hasn't been inconvenienced.
p.8 #11 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
Hi All,
tomKphoto wrote:
... If this photographer in question was an individual, this wouldn't be an issue.
More to the point, would this have been so newsworthy if the complainant wasn't also an EEO Compliance Representative with the Office of Equal Opportunity
p.8 #14 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
RedWhiteandRed wrote:
You can fire someone for any reason, or no reason - but not for a discriminatory reason.
Not true. If you're a company and you HIRE someone you cannot discriminate. If YOU are the business owner, you can do whatever you want. Haven't you ever seen the signs, Owner reserves the right to refuse service to anyone. Period. Where's the ACLU when you actually need them.
p.8 #16 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
> If YOU are the business owner, you can do whatever you want. Haven't you ever seen the signs, Owner reserves the right to refuse service to anyone. Period.
Good one. When the cop pulls me over for going 120mph on the way to a wedding, I'll just point the sign on my dashboard that says, "this is my company car and I can drive as fast as I want. Period" I'm sure the trooper will let me go then. "Sorry to have bothered you Mr. K, good luck at the wedding."
Back to the real world, here's the code that Elaine Photography was in violation of ...
p.8 #18 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
tomKphoto wrote:
> If YOU are the business owner, you can do whatever you want. Haven't you ever seen the signs, Owner reserves the right to refuse service to anyone. Period.
Good one. When the cop pulls me over for going 120mph on the way to a wedding, I'll just point the sign on my dashboard that says, "this is my company car and I can drive as fast as I want. Period" I'm sure the trooper will let me go then. "Sorry to have bothered you Mr. K, good luck at the wedding."
Back to the real world, here's the code that Elaine Photography was in violation of ...
That's the most absurd comparison I have EVER heard. . Top that one.
Is this your argument?
It is hereby declared to be the policy of the state of New Mexico in the exercise of its power for the protection of the public welfare, to prohibit discrimination in places of accommodation, resort or amusement due to race, color, religion, ancestry or national origin.
Really? I don't see anything in there about lesbians...
Does Lesbian = Race? Ah nope.
Does Lesbian = Color? Hhhhmmm... Tough one for you... Ah nope.
Does Lesbian = Religion? Nope.
Does Lesbian = Ancestry? hhhmmm Nope.
Does Lesbian = National Origin? Ah, no.
Where's your argument? This was written in 1954 when there were no lesbians (let me clarify, very few where 'out').
I'm not here to debate the morality of the clause, rather, the notion that you can refuse service to ANYONE.
Edited by mrpeepers on Apr 12, 2008 at 02:42 PM GMT
p.8 #19 · Christian Photographers Fined $6,000 For Refusing to Shoot Lesbian Commitment Ceremony
mrpeepers wrote:
What country, continent, decent did lesbians come from? How old are you? Seriously. I mean, you're making the arguments a 13 year old would make.
