p.1 #1 · Get off the low light, large aperature, high iso wagon...
IHello All,
I've been reading and learning so much from this forum, and just want to thank everyone.
However, I've noticed alot of bashing when newbie photographers suggest using "P" mode, or a smaller apperature (i.e. 5.6 and up) for low light weddings.
I live in Greece and the photo studio I work for, pumps out 3-5 weddings per day on any given Sat. & Sun. The owners of the shop/s (4 in my city) insist on certain settings in order to be able to sell their photo's.
These settings are...
(all with FLASH)
Shutter speed 1/60th (indoor)
Shutter speed 1/125th (outdoor)
Iso 200
f 5.6 - 8 (indoors)
f11 - 13 (outdoors)
WB 5500K
etc..
This company has been in business for 20yrs, and they have been providing a steady living for 5 photographers with no complaints.
All I'm saying is that not everyone needs to use settings below f2.8/higher than iso 1600 etc.. to make a prosperous living and satisfy customers.
We all don't need to be like Kubota/Yervant etc. (although their work is Awsome!!!)
p.1 #7 · Get off the low light, large aperature, high iso wagon...
I think in the end what it comes down to is you do things however it works for you. I like to think of myself and fellow photographers as artists and as such we all make creative decisions neccesary to fulfill our 'vision' of reality. This holds true for weddings, portraits, still-life, architecture and so-on. If shooting without flash gives you a sense of intimacy in your photography then f/2.8 and high iso is certainly a huge asset. On the other hand if you like to creatively use flash in your imagery those things aren't nearly as important.
I'll add that a lot of times photographers find something that is comfortable for them and they stick with it, as it seems the OP is alluding to. Obviously this has worked well for them, however, as a few others have said, if you are not continuously developing your art and challenging yourself to create new work...suffice it to say I don't think you'll last much longer in the rapidly changing digital marketplace.
Just my opinion though...in the end, as I said, we do what works.
p.1 #13 · Get off the low light, large aperature, high iso wagon...
The guys at Wal-mart do not even have to focus the camera. Whatever fits your pistol is a good rule - if you are sending hired hands out to photo mass marketed wedding - f16 and be there.
p.1 #14 · Get off the low light, large aperature, high iso wagon...
I just went to East Malaysia and the photographer there I met shot w/ a 40d and his main lenses were 18-55 kit lens and a 70-300 is lens, yet he's pumping out some serious $$$ w/ some wonderful work and very very satisfied customers. He has a 3 floor studio, 2 houses, 5 employees. granted this is Malaysia, but still, his makes a killing for the market he appeals to.
p.1 #15 · Get off the low light, large aperature, high iso wagon...
I can think of lots of photos I've seen that were ruined by someone shooting wide open a 1.2, 1.4, or even 2.8. But then again, if wedding photogs never shot above 5.6, there'd be no reason to have a huge array of fast primes and zooms. You could do everything with just a 28-300L.
I'd like to see what their indoor results look like with their ISO glued to 200 at f/8. With my 5D, I frequently have to shoot as 800 or 1250 and f/2.8 just to get some ambient thrown in. Not only that, but you're not going to be popular with the guests when you're firing at full power just to get some bounce thrown in.
I'd be a bit more understanding if this was 5, 10, or 20 years ago back when they first started, but I don't think they'd last very long in the U.S. nowadays. If they'd get on Teh Interweb to see what pro wedding photogs are putting out, I think they'd be a bit disappointed.
I'm not bashing slow lenses, just the mindset that you've got to stick to a certain shooting template. Thankfully not everyone adheres to that belief, or we'd have no TTD, strobist, or 85L's, or...
p.1 #16 · Get off the low light, large aperature, high iso wagon...
Gogos wrote:
IHello All,
I've been reading and learning so much from this forum, and just want to thank everyone.
However, I've noticed a lot of bashing when newbie photographers suggest using "P" mode, or a smaller aperture (i.e. 5.6 and up) for low light weddings.
I live in Greece and the photo studio I work for, pumps out 3-5 weddings per day on any given Sat. & Sun. The owners of the shop/s (4 in my city) insist on certain settings in order to be able to sell their photo's.
These settings are...
(all with FLASH)
Shutter speed 1/60th (indoor)
Shutter speed 1/125th (outdoor)
Iso 200
f 5.6 - 8 (indoors)
f11 - 13 (outdoors)
WB 5500K
etc..
This company has been in business for 20yrs, and they have been providing a steady living for 5 photographers with no complaints.
All I'm saying is that not everyone needs to use settings below f2.8/higher than iso 1600 etc.. to make a prosperous living and satisfy customers.
We all don't need to be like Kubota/Yervant etc. (although their work is Awsome!!!)
Do you not want to be Awesome?? It's all about style and preference, with the settings mentioned you are always going to be bashing the shots with flash and you will have very little mood in the way of ambient light.
Sure the studio might have been shooting for 20 years, little over 8 years ago you had to shoot movement like that, for the most part digital camera's have allowed us much higher ISO's at less noise.
One of my biggest photographic influences has been National Geographic, good luck telling them that you will only supply them with shots at the above specs... yes you are not shooting for NatGeo but everyone loves the photos for a reason.
I would never be able to shoot on those settings! Not because I'm trying to make a statement but because the bottom line is I like shots that have mood, I like the idea of being able to work with ambient light, I like using my flash as secondary rather than primary when I can. If that means higher ISO's and apertures then so be it...
p.1 #17 · Get off the low light, large aperature, high iso wagon...
I can't speak for the OP, and am not trying to. He did mention he lives in Greece. This could be why the style he decribes is so well received. Most of the Greek families I have had contact (mostly second generation of emigrating to US) seem to be VERY traditional in much of their social lives. I would think this would show in their desires for wedding photograpy as well. It may seem old school and outdated to many of us, but that doesn't make it wrong. Could be that today's brides in Greece want thier images, "Just like my mother's". Nothing wrong with that sentiment. If it were not marketable, I don't think the studio would have survived this long. There is more than enough room in this field to be both artistic and traditional.
p.1 #19 · Get off the low light, large aperature, high iso wagon...
butchM wrote:
He did mention he lives in Greece. This could be why the style he decribes is so well received. Most of the Greek families I have had contact (mostly second generation of emigrating to US) seem to be VERY traditional in much of their social lives. I would think this would show in their desires for wedding photograpy as well. It may seem old school and outdated to many of us, but that doesn't make it wrong.
Many of the European wedding photographers I've seen seem to include more elements and depth in the frame and they may find the smaller apertures helpful to keep everything in focus. The background is often an important part of their frame and a lot of those "F8" style photos can really tell a story.
By contrast the wider aperture shots tend toward bringing attention to one or two people in the frame, and often the prime interest is how these two interact or how they look. The background is often bokeh.
To be totally honest I prefer the storytelling style.
And then you have shooters like Emin Kuliyev (a member here): http://www.em34.com/
who combine the best of both styles. Different styles .. it's all good.
Edited by Mike Mahoney on Mar 24, 2008 at 10:06 PM GMT
