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Archive 2003 · KEH.com - Buyers Beware!

Cliff L.
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p.1 #1 · KEH.com - Buyers Beware!

This is a warning to anyone, but particularly people outside the USA, who might be thinking of buying used equipment from KEH.com.

I ordered a Canon EF 70-200mm f4L lens from KEH several months ago. It was advertised as being in "like new minus" condition, which according to KEH's grading system, is essentially a new item that no longer has the original packaging. The lens arrived, and I noticed that both the zoom and focusing rings were extremely stiff. I chalked it up to experience, as this was my first-ever order from KEH. I didn't care for the lens, and ended up taking a loss on it and trading it in at my local camera shop.

A while later, I ordered a Canon BP-E1 battery pack from KEH, which turned out to be just as they had advertised. Had I only known this was an exception, rather than the rule...

A few weeks ago, I ordered an EF 300mm f4L IS lens that was also described as "like new minus", with an additional comment of "nice glass" on KEH's web listing. When the lens arrived, it had a badly scratched and chipped front element, and a very noisy Image Stabilizer mechanism. This time, I contacted KEH to find out if they had somehow shipped me the wrong lens. They weren't too concerened about the screw-up, and just said "send it back". However, they would not reimburse me for the shipping costs or the taxes I paid, so I requested that they pay to have the local Canon service centre replace the front element instead, which they eventually agreed to.

Still being somewhat naive about KEH's quality control, I chose to take the refund in the form of a store credit, rather than losing another 10% in Visa transaction fees and foreign exchange costs. So, I ordered a Canon PB-E2 booster ("Excellent Plus" condition) for my EOS 1v, and the balance of the purchase was billed to my credit card. Well, my PB-E2 arrived on Friday - DOA!

That makes three defective items I have received from KEH, out of four orders. I'm amazed that there are people who rave about how good KEH's used equipment is, when it looks like most of the time they don't even bother testing or inspecting the crap before they ship it out. To make matters worse, KEH does not reimburse customers for return shipping costs or customs fees or taxes when they reside outside the USA, so it ends up costing less to just pay to have the defective stuff fixed locally than shipping it back for a partial refund.

After these experiences, I will stick with reputeable businesses like B&H for my equipment needs. KEH gets a well-deserved THUMBS DOWN!

Dec 21, 2003 at 05:19 PM

Greg M
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p.1 #2 · KEH.com - Buyers Beware!

While I don't doubt that you've had problems with them I can say that the 100 macro that I got from them was rated at excellant plus. When I recieved it I could find nothing wrong with it. It looked like I had just taken it out of the box. I also have read nothing but good comments concerning their rating of items.

Do you think that it might be possible that customs may have been responsible?

Dec 21, 2003 at 06:21 PM

CyberDyne
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p.1 #3 · KEH.com - Buyers Beware!

I too have had great experiences with KEH,.

I am confused,. though,.. above it says that your first two orders were okay,. then you contradict your self by saying that three of four itmes were defective?

Dec 21, 2003 at 06:26 PM

Cliff L.
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p.1 #4 · KEH.com - Buyers Beware!

I am confused,. though,.. above it says that your first two orders were okay,. then you contradict your self by saying that three of four itmes were defective?

1. "Like New -" zoom with focus and zoom rings extremely stiff = bad

2. BP-E1 as advertised = good
3. Telephoto lens advertised as "like new -" is acutally "bargain" grade = bad

4. PB-E2 advertised as "excellent +" but does not work = bad

So, as I indicated in the first post, three out of four experiences were bad. I don't see any contradiction there?

Do you think that it might be possible that customs may have been responsible?

All items are shipped UPS Express, so Customs never sees them. They arrive with the KEH packaging still sealed.

it is rare issue and not a normal one that you experienced

Well, that's what I thought with the first problem... and the second problem.... and by the third one, it seems more like KEH just doesn't care what sort of crap they ship out the door. Even with my simple math skills, that's a 75% failure rate - not my idea of a "rare" occurence.

If I were in customer service, and I had just finished dealing with an unhappy customer over a screwup, I would at least make a token effort to make sure his next order was okay. KEH apparently doesn't even bother doing that.

By the way, B&H does refund UPS Expedited shipping both ways if there is any problem with stuff they send you.

Dec 21, 2003 at 06:48 PM

snicklemouse
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p.1 #5 · KEH.com - Buyers Beware!

I haven't dealt with KEH myself yet, so I can't judge their service. The only thing that I heard negatively about them was when it comes to selling equipment to them. A friend of mine had an older but excellent Hasselblad system and according to her description they had estimated that they would pay her about $750 for it (on the phone). Encouraged by that, she packed it all up and sent it there....after they received it, they made an actual offer of $150. I had seen the system and that was just a joke of an offer and my friend understandibly was upset for having been suckered into paying shipping over there for nothing ...she had them return the whole thing (I can't remember who paid for the shipping back to her). Has anyone else had any experience selling to KEH? I always wonder where they get all their stuff from, with places like this an ebay so readily available to everyone?

Dec 21, 2003 at 07:02 PM

CyberDyne
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p.1 #6 · KEH.com - Buyers Beware!

Sorry Molson,...

I had interpreted stiff zoom and focus rings as meaning "Like New"

Every new lens I have purchased comes with stiff rings.. it takes a few months of use to loosen them up. So I didn't realize they were so stiff as to be considered "bad"

Dec 21, 2003 at 07:19 PM

RollCast
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p.1 #7 · KEH.com - Buyers Beware!

I live about 15 minutes from KEH and have been doing business with them for 20 plus years. All of my dealings have been in person, I do believe that could make a difference. Since being able to 'see' what I'm getting is a great advantage, I can only say I've been impressed with their grading of equipment.

As for as selling to them, it's a bit like buying a car. You will definitely need to negotiate for the best price. I recently sold all of my 35mm equipment to them. It took nearly two hours for them to inspect and grade 2 bodies, 2 motor drives and 8 prime lens. After another 15 minutes of price negotiations, I left happy with a check.

Hope all works out for you.

Gary

Dec 21, 2003 at 07:51 PM

Tony Niemann
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p.1 #8 · KEH.com - Buyers Beware!

Sorry to hear you are unsatisfied....I can only say I've had no problems what-so-ever with them in over 10 years. All of my nikon film equipment was purchased from them...That's 4 bodies and a least 10 lenses over the years. I have been in and out of photography as a serious hobby several times. They were the very first place I looked for good used equipment, at least until I found this forum. They are still the second. I have not kept every lens they sold me...but they have always honered their return policy, promptly and without fail. I would say every lens and camera body met or exceded their rating system. Selling equipment is more difficult..they have always offered slightly better prices than B&H and the local Wolf Camera here, but that's not saying much. Any private sale is likely to be better.

Anthony

Edited by Tony Niemann on Dec 22, 2003 at 02:45 AM GMT

Dec 21, 2003 at 08:22 PM

drdad1111
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p.1 #9 · KEH.com - Buyers Beware!

having bought $20-25000 ther over the last 5-6 years I can say they are the greatest. I reccommend them highly

Dec 21, 2003 at 09:43 PM

stan23
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p.1 #10 · KEH.com - Buyers Beware!

I've seen a 'bargain' -- lowest graded 28-70 from them, that would be classified as excellent condition to most on this board. I would buy from them anytime, just got to find something to buy ;-)

Dec 21, 2003 at 10:24 PM

Jim Dawson
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p.1 #11 · KEH.com - Buyers Beware!

RollCast wrote:
I live about 15 minutes from KEH and have been doing business with them for 20 plus years. All of my dealings have been in person, I do believe that could make a difference. Since being able to 'see' what I'm getting is a great advantage, I can only say I've been impressed with their grading of equipment.

The last time I was in Atlanta, I called them to buy a lens in person and they told me that they only dealt via mail order. I wanted to see the lens and take it with me, but no go. They acted like they didn't care if I bought from them or not.

They missed their first and only chance with me. There are too many other dealers that do want my business.

Jim Dawson

Dec 21, 2003 at 10:52 PM

focus
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p.1 #12 · KEH.com - Buyers Beware!

Molson, sorry to hear your story. It definitely makes me think again before I buy any thing from them. From what I read on this board, B&H seems handle this kind of situation well and they will pay your return shipping but myself don't have experience with them. I have dealt with Adorama in past 6 month and spent $2000 on them. So far it went very well -- 4 good over 4 items.

As some members mentioned they have a lots of good experience with KEH. I don't doubt about that. But as a newbie I like a store who treats a new buyer as good as someone already spent $25k with them. KEH seems not a place to start with on this point.

BTW, in regarding your tax, shall you request Canada customs pay you back when you mail the item back? I've heard someone bought equipment from US and paid tax when crossing the border, and have the tax back when out border again. Maybe you can check it out.

Dec 21, 2003 at 11:18 PM

Dan Hogan
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p.1 #13 · KEH.com - Buyers Beware!

I have purchased from them and found the items be be a better quality than they had them listed for.

Every time I talked to them on phone the were polite, informative.

Until I exchanged an item for a better one. I purchased a 80-200L excellent condition for $700. I decided that I needed the 100-400L IS. Called less than a week after getting the lens. They approved an exchange. I had to send the 80-200L back and purchase the 100-400L IS now,and was told that I would get credit once they received the 80-200L item back. Of course I would have to eat shipping.

I have been trying to the credit charged back on my credit card for almost 4 weeks after they received the 80-200L back. They received it. They listed an 80-200L on the web for the same money two days after they signed that they had received the one I sent back. They sold this lens.

Now everytime I call about the credit I get a different story. Waiting for tech inspection to inspect the lens. Waiting for Salesman's approval ( of course he is never at work when your calling). Waiting for office personnel to process, which I have been told three times that its been approved and will be processed tomorrow.

Well it seems tomorrow never comes, that is until Tuesday.
Saturday they claimed they just didn't get to it on Friday but will process it on Monday.

Well I have made up my mind if they don't process it on Monday than Tuesday I will file a complaint with the Georgia Att. Gen.

They seem perfectly OK to buy from. As long as you are buying they have plenty of time process your sale. However if you don't keep the item they have a hard time finding the time to do the right thing and process your refund.

In this case I spent an additional $700 plus on the new lens and accessories. Will I do it again? Not with them. I will pay a higher price for an item elsewhere or go without.

Dec 21, 2003 at 11:25 PM

RollCast
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p.1 #14 · KEH.com - Buyers Beware!

Jim Dawson wrote:
[

The last time I was in Atlanta, I called them to buy a lens in person and they told me that they only dealt via mail order. I wanted to see the lens and take it with me, but no go. They acted like they didn't care if I bought from them or not.

They missed their first and only chance with me. There are too many other dealers that do want my business.

Jim Dawson

Jim,

I have not a clue why you received that kind of response. I was there less than 3 weeks ago and noticed a large sign by the front door that read "ring bell for customer pick up". It would seem they are very inconsistent. In my years of dealing with them, during photo school and while I had my studio, they were always professional. I hate to see this happening to this company. If you take the customer out of forefront you are asking for disaster.

Gary

Dec 22, 2003 at 12:28 AM

Eric Larsen
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p.1 #15 · KEH.com - Buyers Beware!

Very sorry to hear about your negative experience with KEH. I have had one very good experience with them when buying my 28-135 just prior to a trip. They forgot to send the hood I ordered (they had not charged me) which I needed ASAP. So I had to go to Seattle and buy one in time for the trip.

Upon my return, KEH had called me to inquire as to how much I had to pay for the lens hood in Seattle. I told them what I paid at Glazer's and they immediately reimbursed my credit card for the amount I paid--effectively buying the lens hood for me! That came to about 10% of the cost of the lens.

This instance of them "taking care of business" was unsolicited. While only constituting a sample size of one, I was treated very well. Lens was in "as advertised" condition as well.

I'd ask to talk to the owners/manager.

Good luck!

Dec 22, 2003 at 01:09 AM

imager1
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p.1 #16 · KEH.com - Buyers Beware!

I would have learned my lesson after the first time they screwed me. You can still lodge a complaint with the Better Business Bureau in that area and make KEH aware that you have done so. Also, if you want to do business with reputible stores in the U.S., I suggest contacting Louis at Samy's in L.A. or Rich at Robert's in Indianapolis.

Dec 22, 2003 at 01:32 AM

jrachal
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p.1 #17 · KEH.com - Buyers Beware!

I live in Atlanta area as well, and have dealt with them before. I have only had one problem with a RZ67 that I bought from them. They corrected the problem very quickly. Items I have bought have all been better than there rating.

Dec 22, 2003 at 05:19 PM


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