I got tired of waiting for Sigma to release the DP-1, and I have tried all the pana/leica offerings.
So I bought an Oly E-410, and an adapter, and went hunting for some good OMZ glass. A member here sold me an OM 21/3.5. With the lens and adaper, the hybrid weighs 665g (a pound and a half in the U S). The EFOV is 42 degrees, so pretty much normal. Here's the result:
The first image shows the 410 next to the OM-4; as you can see, very simlilar size, and the 410 combo is lighter. From above, the 410 is a bit plumper, and not quite as wide. The hybrid is very good to hold; the subtle mouldings for the fingers and thumb really work. The third shows the beautifully made OM–four-thirds adapter. The last image shows a fine piece of glass; thanks Gary!
I use aperture priority, the aperture set at ƒ8, and use a modified hyperfocal setting (infinity opposite the ƒ5.6 mark). I have found that the old hyperfocal rules just don't seem to work with digital. Still working on that one. I underexpose 0.3–0.7 to protect highlights. The little hybrid is a delight to use.
And here's a five-image panorama shot this morning on the daily constitutional; this part of the world was completely decimated by a serious bushfire on New Year's Day, 2005, so all this is eucalypt regrowth—not the most beautiful place right now, but getting back there:
My vote still goes for the rebel xti paired with a Canon 24mm f2.8 (38mm equivalent), 28mm f2.8 (45mm equivalent) or 35mm f2.0 (55mm equivalent). The 35mm f2 is the smallest of the bunch and offers the best image quality if you don't mind the slightly longer than normal perspective. The xti and 24mm, 35mm, and 50mm f2.5 macro, makes for the best point and shoot with autofocus, IMHO. I guess if Canon had in body image stabilization it could be better. BTW, I also like the Canon 5D with all of the above primes (except the 28mm f2.8 which has mush corners on full frame), but it's larger. The jewel like zuikos are slightly smaller, though not lighter, than the Canon's, but I'd much prefer to keep autofocus.
EltonTeng wrote:
1D2N with the CZ 28/2.8 is pretty awesome.
1 series is kind of beyond my size/weight limit for P&S! The 5D/pancake is already stretching it. I get a few raised eyebrows in the pub.
It's like this: no DP1 yet. Pocket cameras difficult to accept if you're used to a decent DSLR. M8 too expensive and crap in low light. Crop SLR's require wideangles, so you carry 80% of the 5D weight but get 40% of the performance and struggle in low light. I really want a DP1-alike. It's hard to understand why nobody has managed it. Is it because consumers refuse to spend a little more on fixed lens?
I've been eyeing a E-410 to do just this... I know Paul has, too.
In the mean time I've been getting a lot of mileage out of my 5D+28/3.5 and 5D+50/1.8 (both OM primes). The lenses are so tiny and light that I might as well be using a body cap.
I've been meaning to stick the 28/3.5 on my 350D for a while... it seems like it would function like a slightly larger version of your kit. Still, there's something about that little Oly body....
brainiac wrote:
It's like this: no DP1 yet. Pocket cameras difficult to accept if you're used to a decent DSLR. M8 too expensive and crap in low light. Crop SLR's require wideangles, so you carry 80% of the 5D weight but get 40% of the performance and struggle in low light. I really want a DP1-alike. It's hard to understand why nobody has managed it. Is it because consumers refuse to spend a little more on fixed lens?
Is it because consumers refuse to spend a little more on fixed lens?
The average consumer, including you and I, would spend more for more features. Spending more for less features does not make sense at face value. This is the reason for the feature-packed P&S with the 6x optical zoom and 10,000x digital zoom and video and frying pan built in.
OTOH, the people who understand nuances in gear may look for more in less. I know my CZ 28/2.8 cannot zoom to get shots from 100 feet away but I use it as P&S with the 1D in situations perfect for it.
A 5D with any lens is hardly a P&S, though. The best image maker I have right now is an S5 Pro with the ZF 35/2 Distagon—but that's a big combination (similar to 5D, and heavy (three times the weight of the 410/21 combo?).
And Elton's suggestion is heavier stil.
"P&S" was the topic. Now, the 410 won't fit a pocket, but it is tiny and light, and you really can carry it everywhere and it attracts no attention at all. I am still working on scale focussing, and I agree, that will take some time to get right.
I just returned from a week-long trip to Abu Dhabi. At the last minute I decided to take a camera with me as long as it would fit nicely in my briefcase with the laptop. The 5D was out just way to big and bulky. What wound up going with me was my old Contax G2, three lenses and the matching flash. (I still had a brick of Kodak 100G in the fridge) Compact and non-bulky with tiny lenses. It fit ever so neatly. Actually the 3rd lens (the 90mm Sonnar), fit inside a shoe inside my rolling carry-on.
I had not used the camera in perhaps a year, but I was glad I took it. It is still a joy to use. And it was great to have a compact, high quality package without the compromises of a P&S. I can not underline strongly enough, how useful it would be to have a digital version of this camera. Easy to take with you, unobtrusive, high quality, with a full range of operating features. An Olympus E-410 with a old Zuiko attached isn't going to cut it or be comparable on multiple levels (especially if you use wide angles). A Leica M8 with a few lenses might be on par size-wise, but it would be incredibly expensive in comparison, and in many ways not offer the same range and flexibility of use (digital aside). It really is high time the manufacturers gave us a camera system that was compact, capable, and of high quality -- and that wouldn't cost $10,000 or more with 3 prime lenses. Whether Sony/KM revisit the Hexar concept, Contax is resurrected, or Cosina/Epson/Zeiss take the Zeiss Ikon brand digital. There is a role for this system form-factor in the marketplace -- and this type of camera in my travel bag and briefcase, and I'm sure there would be for others. http://thump01.pbase.com/u18/equipment/small/32992716.g2.jpg
I traveled europe with a 20D and 24 f2.8 Canon. It was great but not that small.
I like the 5D 40/2 combo, although the Zuiko 40/2 seems to be hard to find. The alt. is the Zeiss 45mm but then you have mirror clearance issues. Has anyone compared the 2 lenses?
The thread isn't necessarily about a "pocketable" P&S, but rather a an "ultimate" compact. An OM-4, an E-410 or a 20D with any possible lens aren't pocketable either. A truly pocketable P&S to my thinking serves a different purpose. Ultimately, it all about how much of a trade-off, how many compromises, you are willing to make and need to make. Right now, digital "pocketable" P&S's, involve too many compromises to be useful beyond simple recording purposes and simple snapshots. The prospective DP-1 or similar camera potentially offers more (we'll have to wait to see how much more), but it still is not "pocketable" (at least not in any of my pockets, except maybe an overcoat pocket), but is still quite limited feature wise and has but one, limited, fixed, lens.
What I am suggesting, that there is space and need for something in the G2/M8 form factor -- 90% of the functionality, all the IQ, a range of lenses, in a non-bulky, compact shape occupying 50% of the space. Easy to carry and transport, and easy to use, yet capable of fully channeling your abilities and vision into the image created.
John Black wrote:
I would add the Epson RD-1 / RD-1s to the candidate list.
As would I. It is pretty much out of production, as well as a couple of product interations out of date. It will be interesting to see if it is replaced and/or updated. Maybe that replacement will be the eventual Cosina/Zeiss Zeiss Ikon digital product. (Not as desirable as a digital Contax G2/G3 mind you, but in lieu of that, it could fill the need).
If Epson updated the RD w/ a current generation 12 MP sensor such as the one in Sony Alpha or Nikon D300, I think Epson would sell quite a few --- assuming the price point stayed at the $2k mark. That's still expensive for most people - and certainly relative to this thread where "P&S" implies affordability. 6 MP doesn't leave much room for cropping, but 6 MP from the RD is probably better than 8 to 10 MP from a current digicam.
Meanwhile, the newly introduced Canon G9 looks promising - at least Canon brought RAW back. My biggest gripe with the digicams is the extreme crop factor and resulting DOF. Creatively they are challenge (for me).
CKrueger wrote:
I've been eyeing a E-410 to do just this... I know Paul has, too.
In the mean time I've been getting a lot of mileage out of my 5D+28/3.5 and 5D+50/1.8 (both OM primes). The lenses are so tiny and light that I might as well be using a body cap.
I've been meaning to stick the 28/3.5 on my 350D for a while... it seems like it would function like a slightly larger version of your kit. Still, there's something about that little Oly body....
Yes, I have been eyeing it, and that e-bay seller is back with the $500 ones. Very tempting.
The rest of the combos mentioned just don't come close to Kit's for size and weight (except the RD-1, which is rare and overpriced, IMHO). I almost pulled the trigger the other day on a E-410, but then I saw an amazing deal on a home theatre sound package, so it'll be a bit before the E-410 is mine.
Edited by cogitech on Sep 08, 2007 at 05:17 PM GMT
