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Archive 2007 · 'Master' EF 16–35mm f/2.8L II USM Thread

  
 
Tom_W
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p.25 #1 · 'Master' EF 16–35mm f/2.8L II USM Thread


Sorry, Harold - the small image that I posted was merely to demonstrate the lens flare on the old 16-35. I also wrote that I was asking if anybody had an example from the new 16-35 Mk II taken in a similar situation that might demonstrate an improvement in flare resistance.

Also, you can get a full-sized image from Neil's link if you click on the word "original" under the smaller, web-sized images.



Apr 01, 2007 at 03:24 PM
neilgundel
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p.25 #2 · 'Master' EF 16–35mm f/2.8L II USM Thread


You could look at page 54 (brick walls)
or page 57 (into the sun, and also unsharpened full frame 100% crops)
or my other pictures that you already looked at (but click the "original image" link at the bottom of each image).

BTW, based on looking closely at a couple images, the 16-35 is definitely a little better (sharper, less chromatic abberation, virtually no barrel distortion) than the 24-70 at 24mm f/8, and pretty darn close at 35mm f/8. Not too bad considering the reputation of that lens.



Apr 01, 2007 at 03:24 PM
Harold makaske
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p.25 #3 · 'Master' EF 16–35mm f/2.8L II USM Thread


Sorry Neil! I missed the ΄original image΄ link.


Apr 01, 2007 at 03:26 PM
neilgundel
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p.25 #4 · 'Master' EF 16–35mm f/2.8L II USM Thread


No problem, Harold.

Going over my two city shots, one of them was actually at 24mm f/8 and the other was 16mm f/8, as I had originally indicated. I have updated the posting and the photos & apologize for getting that wrong. I "thought" I had shot both at 16mm.




Apr 01, 2007 at 06:23 PM
ward1066
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p.25 #5 · 'Master' EF 16–35mm f/2.8L II USM Thread


Flare does look quite a bit better, thats my major gripe with the MK1


Apr 01, 2007 at 09:34 PM
EB-1
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p.25 #6 · 'Master' EF 16–35mm f/2.8L II USM Thread


Yeah, it is finally here! After just a few test shots, I really like this lens already.

EB



Apr 02, 2007 at 12:36 PM
gazzajagman
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p.25 #7 · 'Master' EF 16–35mm f/2.8L II USM Thread


Hi Neil.
Actually, I'm finding those results more than a little dissapointing for a £1000 (UKP) lens. I currently use a Tamron 17-35mm f2.8-4 on my 5D and to be frank, those 80% centres are just as good as my £250 lens. I was really hoping that Canon would deliver the definative word on Wide Zooms...but I think I was being too hopefull. If the corners were better by f5.6 I would be interested, but quite simply there's not a £750 worth of difference in the corners. A tad better, but not a lot. The corners are still smeary and vignette, so where's the upgrade over say my Tamron or the Canon 17-40mm ? I just can't see it myself. I can honestly say that my Tamron does a better job at f11 than that copy of the new canon.

I hope that you don;t take this the wrong way, but I hope that copy you used was a lemon!

Regards,

Gareth



Apr 02, 2007 at 02:44 PM
Film_Ruled
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p.25 #8 · 'Master' EF 16–35mm f/2.8L II USM Thread


I am confused, do you have the new Canon lens or are you comparing your Tamron images to those of different subject from another photographer?

I am finding mine to be a good bit better than my older 16-35. For what it worth, you will never find a ultra wide 2.8 zoom that is going to be perfect at all settings, it is simply not possible. So if we say the new Canon is about 10-20% better overall than the older one, well that might not add up for most of the hobby types on here even though it does add up price wise.

But for a pro like me where every little bit helps, then it really does add up since the build quality, sealing, superior service from CPS all make the extra £750 over your Tamron lens a bargain to me.

This is all nothing new, the upper 10% will always cost a lot more than the lower 90%.

I have a 28mm 2.8 AIS Nikon lens that cost me $200 in mint condition. It is one of the best 28mm lenses ever made. Wide open it is nice, not perfect, but really good.

I also own a $3,000 Leica M 28mm 2.0 aspheric lens. Wide open, it wiped the floor with anything of that angle of view in any format. Even stopped down, it has superior color and tonal rendition.

It is all a matter of needs and perception of value.

gazzajagman wrote:
Hi Neil.
Actually, I'm finding those results more than a little dissapointing for a £1000 (UKP) lens. I currently use a Tamron 17-35mm f2.8-4 on my 5D and to be frank, those 80% centres are just as good as my £250 lens. I was really hoping that Canon would deliver the definative word on Wide Zooms...but I think I was being too hopefull. If the corners were better by f5.6 I would be interested, but quite simply there's not a £750 worth of difference in the corners. A tad better, but not a lot. The corners are still smeary and
...Show more



Apr 02, 2007 at 03:20 PM
Harold makaske
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p.25 #9 · 'Master' EF 16–35mm f/2.8L II USM Thread


gazzajagman...

I΄m glad you observe the same thing. I also have the Tamron and that lens is very sharp. I have a feeling in my stomach telling me that this lens is not worth the difference.



Apr 02, 2007 at 03:21 PM
gazzajagman
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p.25 #10 · 'Master' EF 16–35mm f/2.8L II USM Thread


Film_Ruled....No I don't have a copy of this new lens. With all the forum hype that's been occuring concearning this lens, I was hoping for better results.
In the UK, this lens is currently about £1350, which is a lot of money. For that price it should be top drawer optics. It should, for that price, teach the other makers a lesson in how to make a wide angle lens. But from what I have seen, the corners are quite soft and mushy right up to f16, where they seem to be very very good. But unfortunatly for Canon....but good for me, is exactly the same aperture point where my Tamron 17-35mm performs exceptionally too. I'm quite happy to drop that kind of money on a lens if it really performs well.

Soft corners will always be soft corners, regardless of subject and photographer. If the lens performs poorly @f2.8 (which I would expect) it will be the same in every image. That's what I was commenting on.

Maybe you should have read my reply a little more carefully. From what I've seen of the samples so far, the results are dissapointing for a semi pro landscape photographer like me. I was hoping for a wide lens that would be good in the corners on a 5D at f5.6, may be f8 at a push.

Yes, Canon lens has dust protection, which is very usefull in maybe Iraq on assignment, but for landscapers, it's hardly a deal breaker. USM...I can take it or leave it on a wide lens, especially considering that I use hyperfocal distance focussing to maximise DOF. So a silent fast AF is a bit pointless (to me).
Optically there is little to trade between my Tamron 17-35mm. The Canon really isn't even 5% better. By f11 I would say that the Tamron is easily as sharp.

I am also a CPS member, and I own a lot of Canon, Sigma and Tamron glass. I buy what is good, not what has a red ring. Belive it or not both Sigma and Tamron have a 3 day turn around too (in my area). And they all carry 3 year warrenties, where as Canon have a measly 1 yr.
Maybe you should check out one of these little Tamron gems and save yourself a lotta cash...heck, buy 2 just in case!

Regards,

Gareth Cooper



Apr 02, 2007 at 04:19 PM
Film_Ruled
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p.25 #11 · 'Master' EF 16–35mm f/2.8L II USM Thread


gazzajagman wrote:
Film_Ruled....No I don't have a copy of this new lens. With all the forum hype that's been occuring concearning this lens, I was hoping for better results.


You really ought to get one and test it your self, the internet is not a very good gauge of how things are in the real world.

For me, and I make a really good chunk of my income from landscapes, this new lens is about as good as we are going to get from a ultra-wide zoom that is holding 2.8 throughout the range. There is not going to ever be a single ultra-wide zoom on this planet that will be perfect wide open across the range, ever. If Canon were to make a 16-24 3.5 aspheric, you might have your dream lens, but this is a compromise lens made to fill a broad need, not a specific one like landscapes.


In fact, you are going to be hard pressed to even find a prime wider than 20mm that will be tack in the corners even a couple stops down from wide open. The CZ Distagon 21mm 2.8 achieves the results is does due to it's optical design...which makes the lens *huge* compared to say, the Nikon 20mm 2.8 AIS.

As far as sealing not being good for landscapes shooters? I beg to differ. Some of my best selling images are in really remote areas and in very foul or about to get foul weather.

By the way, I much prefer other methods for landscape work. If I am even using digital, which for most of it I am not, I use either my 24mm T/S or my 24mm 1.4 over the zoom for niche reasons. If I am going to go as wide as 16-20mm, I don't even bother with digital and instead, use the 30mm 5.6 aspheric ( equal to 17mm ) on my Hasselblad XPan with Astia 100, my Fuji GSW690III or a 4x5. Any one of those will blow the doors clean off any digital for landscape work.

The bottom line is I have the lens, do this full time, know what my realistic expectations are of the new Canon lens and see quite an improvement in the overall image quality.

Just for kicks, I went out and shot a few frames in my backyard at both 16 & 20MM. I shot at 2.8, 4.0, 5.6, 8.0, 11.0 and 16.0.

At 16mm, the lens cleaned up well on blades of grass in the corners by F 8.0
At 20mm, they cleaned up by F 8.0.

This is what *I* just found, not what I read on some forum.

Bro, that is the best you are going to get from a 2.8 ultra-wide zoom, period.

Enjoy your Tamron, but please don't go knocking this lens until you try it with in ALL of it's intended uses.

That is what amateurs on the internet do.......you don't want to be one of those, do you?

Edited by Film_Ruled on Apr 02, 2007 at 10:21 PM GMT



Apr 02, 2007 at 05:09 PM
hahr
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p.25 #12 · 'Master' EF 16–35mm f/2.8L II USM Thread


Film_Ruled wrote:
That is what amateurs on the internet do.......you don't want to be one of those, do you?


well said.   i'd like to nominate your statement as the 2007 internet forum quote of the year.   hilarious.

-erik



Apr 02, 2007 at 05:15 PM
neilgundel
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p.25 #13 · 'Master' EF 16–35mm f/2.8L II USM Thread


I agree with everyone Personally, I think Canon should come out with a 16-24 f/4 selling for $3500 if necessary that is pixel-perfect in the corners by f/8 - I would buy one, and I think Canon would benefit significantly from the "image" of producing such a lens even if it didn't make money directly. Nevertheless I am not at all unhappy with this lens.

Also, keep in mind that I have deliberately put very fine detail in the corners that I already knew to be challenging for most lenses, and posted unsharpened 16.7 megapixel jpgs (although the two city shots [ . . . and the ones at f2.8 as well] had normal sharpening), from a camera known to require sharpening. Just to keep things in perspective.

Edited by neilgundel on Apr 02, 2007 at 07:44 PM GMT



Apr 02, 2007 at 06:19 PM
SKumar25
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p.25 #14 · 'Master' EF 16–35mm f/2.8L II USM Thread


gazzajagman wrote:
... so where's the upgrade over say ... the Canon 17-40mm ?


Hi Gareth,

have you seen the direct comparision of the new 16-35mm with the 17-40mm on page 57.

From those images new lens is clearly at a different level.



Apr 02, 2007 at 06:42 PM
EB-1
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p.25 #15 · 'Master' EF 16–35mm f/2.8L II USM Thread


Oh man, now people are complaining that the 16-35 II is not perfect? It is the best 16-35 lens ever made. I agree with Film_Ruler's comments for the most part.

EB



Apr 02, 2007 at 07:16 PM
Grant808
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p.25 #16 · 'Master' EF 16–35mm f/2.8L II USM Thread


hahr wrote:
well said.   i'd like to nominate your statement as the 2007 internet forum quote of the year.   hilarious.

-erik




Looks to me like the new lens is worth a spin...

Thanks to all who posted so far. Could I request some f/16 shots?

I like the little jets Reminds me of a shot from yesterday where the first shot that I opened for PP has what looked like a tremendous amount of dust on my sensor...turned out to be a cloud of gnats in the air. They were gone in the next frame.



Apr 02, 2007 at 07:41 PM
EB-1
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p.25 #17 · 'Master' EF 16–35mm f/2.8L II USM Thread


I can't post anything, but f/16 looks a little softer to me. f/11 is the sweet spot for center/corner balance, with f/8 being very good. Images have plenty of detail and sharpen well. Canon reduced the CA to really nice levels on this lens, too. Now how much is my crappy old version I worth?

EB



Apr 02, 2007 at 08:08 PM
tsdevine
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p.25 #18 · 'Master' EF 16–35mm f/2.8L II USM Thread


I agree. f/16 looks like it sacrifices a little center sharpness for edge sharpness. I did notice a little more center sharpness at f/8 at 24mm I think. Not much though...

I posted this link earlier....I know it may not be the greatest for evaluation purposes, they were shot raw and processed with Capture One w/standard sharpening (34). You might be able to get some idea though, I have f/2.8 - f/16 at 16, 24, and 35mm.

http://imageevent.com/devine/1635mkiisamplepix

-Tim



Apr 02, 2007 at 08:16 PM
john660
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p.25 #19 · 'Master' EF 16–35mm f/2.8L II USM Thread


So from what I've seen so far and what has been said so far, I'm still not sold on trading in my 17-40 for the new 16-35...I may have missed it, but has anyone posted comparisons between the two at f16 or f22, because that's almost exclusively what I shoot at with the 17-40 off of a tripod for stock landscape work and while it's not perfect, it's more than saleable and satisfies my agencies. I really only use the 17-40 in what I consider to be it's strong areas...17-22mm at f16-22. Anything else isn't sharp enough for stock or large prints, but I just switch to my 24-70 when I need to zoom in further.

So is the 16-35 any sharper at f16-22 with max dof at the 17-25mm end than the 17-40 is? Dramatically so or just a little bit? I've seen the f8 shot comparisons, but the 17-40 never was sharp at f8, particularly in the corners.

And is the CA much different at those specs? The 17-40 has pretty bad CA at 17-20mm at f16-22.



Apr 02, 2007 at 08:43 PM
EB-1
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p.25 #20 · 'Master' EF 16–35mm f/2.8L II USM Thread


Diffraction of the 16-35 II is noticeable at f/22 on the 1Ds MK II. Perhaps it is not quite as bad on the 5D, but I would not use it at f/22 under normal conditions.

EB



Apr 02, 2007 at 08:56 PM
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