I think both DaveMart and DynoMoHum has good points about both technology, however the main disconnect is that DaveMart is talking about advantages of NiMh over Li-Ion/Poly from several years ago when Canon first introduced the 1D/1Ds and Mk2 versions. Things have changed greatly with Li-Ion technology since and this is reflected in the arguments made by DynoMoHum.
From a development/marketing point of view however, it costs a lot of money to develop a new battery, test it and certify it under UL and a whole wack of other national and international safety standards.
Also, customers (especially pros who've invested possibly thousands of dollars into extra batteries) don't really appreciate it when they need to buy a whole new set of batteries to run their new replacement bodies. Just imagine, spending $1-2k and owning 10-20 extra NiMh batteries for your 1D/1Ds because you shoot in remote areas or shoot massive amounts of images where power can be an issue and then having the Mk2 come along require a whole new different set of batteries. If you're transitioning between a 1D and 1D2 and using both bodies, you'll now need 10-20 batteries of both types with at least two seperate chargers. It all becomes a very big expense and what's more of a problem is simply having to carry twice as many batteries since the two bodies won't use the same batteries.
You can see this reasoning behind Canon's Li-ion BP-511 series. The BP-511 has been around since the G5 days and has carried on to the 20D, 30D, albet with a slightly updated version. But the same reason applies to the 1 series Pro bodies.
DynoMoHum wrote:
Well I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree... I personally know of no valid advantages that NiMh would have over LiION, with the exception of applications where current rates exceed 1C, and as I've said previously, there are easy ways to over come that issue if all you need is 2C or so...
beewee wrote:
I think both DaveMart and DynoMoHum has good points about both technology, however the main disconnect is that DaveMart is talking about advantages of NiMh over Li-Ion/Poly from several years ago when Canon first introduced the 1D/1Ds and Mk2 versions. Things have changed greatly with Li-Ion technology since and this is reflected in the arguments made by DynoMoHum.
From a development/marketing point of view however, it costs a lot of money to develop a new battery, test it and certify it under UL and a whole wack of other national and international safety standards.
Also, customers (especially pros who've invested possibly thousands of dollars into extra batteries) don't really appreciate it when they need to buy a whole new set of batteries to run their new replacement bodies. Just imagine, spending $1-2k and owning 10-20 extra NiMh batteries for your 1D/1Ds because you shoot in remote areas or shoot massive amounts of images where power can be an issue and then having the Mk2 come along require a whole new different set of batteries. If you're transitioning between a 1D and 1D2 and using both bodies, you'll now need 10-20 batteries of both types with at least two seperate chargers. It all becomes a very big expense and what's more of a problem is simply having to carry twice as many batteries since the two bodies won't use the same batteries.
You can see this reasoning behind Canon's Li-ion BP-511 series. The BP-511 has been around since the G5 days and has carried on to the 20D, 30D, albet with a slightly updated version. But the same reason applies to the 1 series Pro bodies....Show more →
I agree that the historical advantages of NiMiH afre being overcome - indeed the links I posted in my OP regarding batteries linked to some of the latest technologies in Li-on.- they may kbe ready now or it may take around a year.
Regards,
DaveMart
People frequently complain that a LiION cell degrades even if it's not used... OK, lets say I'll accept that they do... Yeah, so... Do you really think a NiMH does not degrade over time without use? Besides, you have to ask yourself, do pros usually leave their batteries sitting around unused for long periods of time?(I don't think so, and remember this is largely a 'pro' vs. not pro thing, since all other canon DSLRs besides the 1D series do currently uses LiION)
Basically all the research I've done, says that LiION has lower self discharge, higher cycle life, higher power output per weight, higher or equal power output per volume... Info on performance at various operating temperatures is harder to find, but from what I have seen at worst it's pretty much a wash as to which is better.
I've done the searches and I simply can not find anything that would lead me to believe that NiMH is somehow better then LiION(or even LiPoly) for any DSLR camera... Leaves me still thinking Canon just hasn't gotten around to replacing the aging battery power of their 1D series.
Note to moderator...can we start a battery specification debate thread?
How 'bout we get back to the matter at hand...the specs & prices on my new 40D?
If Geoff's prediction about the 40D comes true...
• Anti-dust
• 5D like AF
• 10.2mp 4 channel sensor (though they were testing a 12 mp one)
• Still 1.6 crop for those EF-S lenses
• DIGIC III and sensor changes to give better high ISO and lower noise (especially at 1600 and 3200 ISO)
• Very similar appearance to 30D
...what is it gonna cost? I am not sure they can charge more than the D200.
Nikon has gained market share at entry level and advanced amateur segments. There was a rumor earlier that Canon will come out with a camera under the xti. But will the 40D specd above counter the D200? What about a D200 replacement? Can Canon go to 12mp and 1.6 crop and not increase noise?
brown_dog wrote:
...what is it gonna cost? I am not sure they can charge more than the D200.
My guess (based on Caon's past behaviour) would be the 40D will cost about the same as the 30D did before the current round of major discounts.... And that (as with the 20D before) the 30D will be kept on for a while (so long as there is reasonable demand) at a reduced price to provide a "step-up' camera for the 400D at a lower price...
lordcarl wrote:
You got that right. Any successor to the 1Ds MK II can only be expected in Photokina 2008. PhotoPlus Expo 2007 will be for the EOS 5D's successor and PMA 2008 is for the 30D replacement.
PMA 2007? No 40D or successor to 5D and 1Ds II. That's all.
11 more days to go till Feb 20, 2007.
This is the fascinating thing about the current state of the rumours...
On one hand they give the impression across the web of coalescing around a 40D and a new ID Mark something (not clear if this is the 10/12mp model or the 22mp model),,, With the replacement 5D and the other 1D model coming a bit later
On the other hand there are these persistent positions such as yours (or that of NikT) which make it seem that Canon is "dancing to another tune" as far as DSLRs... In the last couple of rumour rounds they seemed to hit a critical point a few weeks before the show and lock into something very close to reality. Not yet this time it would seem….
I do hope my source is right though
As you say - not long to go now... Imagine the “screams” in this thread if (say) yours was right “Canon has lost its way” etc…
The 40D is coming out PMA 2007, that is a given. I was at Calumet in San Diego a month ago, the Canon rep had just been in the store that AM. The clerks were all talking about it, and I asked: Is the 30D replacement on its way? They said, yes. They knew of no spec's at all.
What happened to "The Legend". Wasn't that on the Canon Israeli website for ten minutes last fall? That would be more in line with lordcarl's teasing. A new line.
O.K., from northlight-images.co.uk archive. Sept. 19th before photokina:
"Have a look at the layout of the Photokina stand from Canon Europe. Click on the 'on site events' headings. All have extra info ... the 'Main Stage' one also refers to 'Birth of a new Brand' ".
The truth is probably in last years northern light images archieve . Notice how much came true. This is when Canon was still leaking. So whatever was pushed back was probably leaked last year. Canon now has apparently not only stopped the leaks, but torn the sink off the wall.
