1.6 crop may be an area they don't want to go head to head with CCD based cameras.
Maybe, but I don't see canon being afraid of anyone, and they definitely are trying to be competetive at the entry level with the 400D. It just would be uncharacteristic to leave a large gap with a such a lucrative marketplace. The 5D is a great camera, but it does not entirely address the same user base as the D200. Without a prosumer crop camera, there will be a $1500 to $2000 jump from the entry level to the 5Dm2. They can't possibly price the existing 5D lower than $2000 because the sensors still cost more and have much lower yields per wafer than a crop sensor.
PhotoEdit wrote:
Anyone else kinda shocked the new 1D3 isnt atleast 12mp?
No, not really. The target market is less concerned with quantity of pixels and more worried about quality and speed. Of the choice between 12MP and ISO 6400, I will choose the ISO 6400. It also leaves a nice gap for the FF bodies as a distinguishing charactersistic. What does shock me is that the price is so low for all the innovations.
Marek Paju wrote:
but how to explane the fact there was an blank 40D template page on HongKong Canon website?
Well, will there be a 40D ? Very likely. We had the 10D prosumer dSLR. Then the 20D prosumer dSLR, followed by the 30D prosumer dSLR. Do you see a pattern here?
So, yes, with a four-nines certainty (99.99% for those that don't know) there will be a 40D. The question is: when. And it's alltogether possible that the successor to the 30D will not be accounced at or before PMA, but later this year.
Maybe Canon decided to delay the 40D because it wants to empty the 30D stocks. Or maybe there have been problems with 40D production which prevents widespread availability. I'm not saying this IS the case, just that it would be possible.
Tentacle wrote:
Well, will there be a 40D ? Very likely. We had the 10D prosumer dSLR. Then the 20D prosumer dSLR, followed by the 30D prosumer dSLR. Do you see a pattern here?
So, yes, with a four-nines certainty (99.99% for those that don't know) there will be a 40D. The question is: when. And it's alltogether possible that the successor to the 30D will not be accounced at or before PMA, but later this year.
Maybe Canon decided to delay the 40D because it wants to empty the 30D stocks. Or maybe there have been problems with 40D production which prevents widespread availability. I'm not saying this IS the case, just that it would be possible....Show more →
Maybe the 30D is only a year old, and they want it to run it's 18 month life-cycle.
Maybe the 30D is only a year old, and they want it to run it's 18 month life-cycle.
The product cycle isn't holy. And don't forget that the 30D sensor (and part of its internals) is 30 months old because that's essentially 20D stuff.
But, to be honest, I've stopped trying to predict when the 40D will come. And what it will be like, for that matter. I do know that the 30D sales are far from spectacular, that's for sure. It's a no-brainer why. *cough* D80, K10D, D200 *cough*
timbop: Without a prosumer crop camera, there will be a $1500 to $2000 jump from the entry level to the 5Dm2. They can't possibly price the existing 5D lower than $2000
I don't doubt there is a market at the 30D price point, that Nikon, Sony, etc. have some attractive offerings there relative to Canon and I do even expect Canon will very likely produce an improvement on the 30D sometime soon. I just doubt that it will ever be a hot seller so long as it remains 1.6x. Peope want a cheap camera (400D) or desire a full-frame camera (5D), a fast camera for sports (1DmkIII) or ultra-high resolution camera (1DsII). Not many people are really attracted to the concept of a 'better' 1.6x crop camera - its a compromise justified on the too-high price of the 5D. The 3x0D/400D/20D cameras have been massive sellers and Canon will tap a vast upgrade market if they can get the economics of FF sensor production right. Until then a lot of people will sit tight shooting with what they have.
johnhopkins wrote:
I don't doubt there is a market at the 30D price point, that Nikon, Sony, etc. have some attractive offerings there relative to Canon and I do even expect Canon will very likely produce an improvement on the 30D sometime soon. I just doubt that it will ever be a hot seller so long as it remains 1.6x. Peope want a cheap camera (400D) or desire a full-frame camera (5D), a fast camera for sports (1DmkIII) or ultra-high resolution camera (1DsII). Not many people are really attracted to the concept of a 'better' 1.6x crop camera - its a compromise justified on the too-high price of the 5D. The 3x0D/400D/20D cameras have been massive sellers and Canon will tap a vast upgrade market if they can get the economics of FF sensor production right. Until then a lot of people will sit tight shooting with what they have....Show more →
That is a well thought out statement about the current position of Canon in the 5D and below market. I agree with timbop totally. He really tells it like it is.
Someone else recently said that Canon's business wasn't pleasing the consumer but their stockholders! While I agree with the stockholder statement, I totally disagree with the idea that Canon shouldn't please us too. After all, the market starts with the consumer. True, we generally stay with a system because of our investment in lenses and other equipment but we don't buy the next body if we're not sold on it's merit.
When I saw that the new Mark III was 1.3X, I thought that was a great compromise between the FF and 1.6X and I still believe it is. However, the camera is more suited to the professional who needs the rapid fire shooting and other fine features it has. It's not generally suited to the photographer who wants a great DSLR but not at the price of $4000.00 or so. Something around $1400 to $2200 would suit me just fine as long as it had the features I want and maybe 1.3X is the feature I want. Maybe FF is what I want but I would have to be convinced of that first. I think I could step down to the 1.3X easier than FF. I love the long lenses and FF is not kind to them.
What I don't want is another warmed over 20D/30D. I want a NEW camera with the features that are important to me. I also don't care what the number on the camera is like 40D or 5D or whatever.
One more thing: the more I read and drool over the Mark III, the more awesome I think the camera is. It is truly a huge breakthrough in camera technology. Too bad it isn't in my price range but one can dream!
Well.... I guess I have to try and make my 300D last a while longer... Unless I could find $2500 more then I had budgeted for my next camera... I do like the info on the 1DMIII... I just can't afford one.
As I try to control my disappointment that there is no new 40D announced now... I can't help but think... Wouldn't it be cool... to have a 8.5MP 1.6X crop camera with some of the features that the 1DMIII has... Such as improved ISO and/or lower noise... Better focus system then the current 1.6x bodies have... faster data transfer, live preview, etc.... Surely Canon could sell huge number of a camera in the $1500 price range, with more and better features and specs then the current 30D has....
So... why don't I just settle for a 30D? after all they are a fine camera... Well I just don't like buying yesterdays technology, when we know that others (competitors) have newer, more feature rich cameras at this same price point... And... well I do still have a working 300D, and just don't like parting with my money unless I feel like I'm getting good value from my purchase, and well I'm not sure Canon has what I consider to be a really good value in the price range that I want to buy in...
So... maybe I'll be surprised by another Canon announcement in the next month or two... meanwhile I'm bracing to just keep shooting with my almost 3 year old 300D.
JohnnyGCanon wrote:
That is a well thought out statement about the current position of Canon in the 5D and below market. I agree with timbop totally. He really tells it like it is.
Someone else recently said that Canon's business wasn't pleasing the consumer but their stockholders! While I agree with the stockholder statement, I totally disagree with the idea that Canon shouldn't please us too. After all, the market starts with the consumer. True, we generally stay with a system because of our investment in lenses and other equipment but we don't buy the next body if we're not sold on it's merit.
When I saw that the new Mark III was 1.3X, I thought that was a great compromise between the FF and 1.6X and I still believe it is. However, the camera is more suited to the professional who needs the rapid fire shooting and other fine features it has. It's not generally suited to the photographer who wants a great DSLR but not at the price of $4000.00 or so. Something around $1400 to $2200 would suit me just fine as long as it had the features I want and maybe 1.3X is the feature I want. Maybe FF is what I want but I would have to be convinced of that first. I think I could step down to the 1.3X easier than FF. I love the long lenses and FF is not kind to them.
What I don't want is another warmed over 20D/30D. I want a NEW camera with the features that are important to me. I also don't care what the number on the camera is like 40D or 5D or whatever.
One more thing: the more I read and drool over the Mark III, the more awesome I think the camera is. It is truly a huge breakthrough in camera technology. Too bad it isn't in my price range but one can dream!...Show more →
Very well stated..thank you. I feel the same. Up until today I did believe the "40d" was here for pma....With what is stated above in this thread, I now think the rumer of the 5D split has legs! 1.3X and ff Lets hope!
JohnnyGCanon: What I don't want is another warmed over 20D/30D.
tbartick: I now think the rumor of the 5D split has legs!
Yes, timbop is spot on regarding the current economics of FF sensor production and also the need for Canon to have a range of competive offerings at the various price points. It almost seems though as if Canon is kind of holding back with the 30D as if to lead the market into a distinct choice between entry-level 400D and the FF 5D at a big premium. I too feel a 5D split in late 2007/early 2008 makes a lot of sense from the consumer's point of view. Of course Canon would need to work hard to get the technology right if they are to deliver this while making a profit. But if they could do it i am sure the market response to a FF camera <$2000 range would be overwhelming compared to another 'warmed over' 20D/30D.
DynoMoHum wrote:
Well.... I guess I have to try and make my 300D last a while longer... Unless I could find $2500 more then I had budgeted for my next camera... I do like the info on the 1DMIII... I just can't afford one.
As I try to control my disappointment that there is no new 40D announced now... I can't help but think... Wouldn't it be cool... to have a 8.5MP 1.6X crop camera with some of the features that the 1DMIII has... Such as improved ISO and/or lower noise... Better focus system then the current 1.6x bodies have... faster data transfer, live preview, etc.... Surely Canon could sell huge number of a camera in the $1500 price range, with more and better features and specs then the current 30D has....
So... why don't I just settle for a 30D? after all they are a fine camera... Well I just don't like buying yesterdays technology, when we know that others (competitors) have newer, more feature rich cameras at this same price point... And... well I do still have a working 300D, and just don't like parting with my money unless I feel like I'm getting good value from my purchase, and well I'm not sure Canon has what I consider to be a really good value in the price range that I want to buy in...
So... maybe I'll be surprised by another Canon announcement in the next month or two... meanwhile I'm bracing to just keep shooting with my almost 3 year old 300D. ...Show more →
Why not pick up a used 20D for under $700 in Buy/Sell?
Not many people are really attracted to the concept of a 'better' 1.6x crop camera - its a compromise justified on the too-high price of the 5D. The 3x0D/400D/20D cameras have been massive sellers and Canon will tap a vast upgrade market if they can get the economics of FF sensor production right. Until then a lot of people will sit tight shooting with what they have.
That's been pretty much exactly my thinking on this - and I'm "sitting tight" with my crop sensor body right now, waiting for the right moment to make the move to full frame. I haven't seen anything - real or speculative - at this point that would entice me to spend up on a marginally improved crop sensor body.
timbop: Without a prosumer crop camera, there will be a $1500 to $2000 jump from the entry level to the 5Dm2. They can't possibly price the existing 5D lower than $2000
I am pretty certain that there will be ways to price FF below $2000 before too long. It is true that FF will be more expensive than a comparable crop sensor body, but the sensor costs of both become less of an issue over time.
I agree that there are some pretty big price jumps within the current lineup: double the price or more to go from 30D to 5D; double the price to go from 5D to new 1-Series. Yet there is a fairly small gap between the 400D and the 30D. Canon could probably afford to let this gap be somewhat larger now that the 400D seems like a more capable performer - perhaps large enough that there is room to position a sub-$2000 FF body (I do think this will be viable before long) above the 400D, and perhaps below a "5DII" sort of body. To make up some numbers, you could imagine bodies at price points around $900, $1800, $3000, $4000+, and $7-8000.
(I suspect that the latter cannot happen, especially if it includes 16MP, until the mythical 22 MP 1 Series body comes out - so a set of changes like this would occur over a time frame of at least a year I suspect.)
Simply because I do not like the idea of spending $700 on 3 year old technology. If my 300D would die before I could get myself some new technology for under $1500, then I would have to make a choice that I don't want to make right now... If I were forced to buy a camera right now, it would be a 30D, but I would do so under duress. For me to buy a 20D, I'd have to find one at about $500, and even then I would be very hesitant... Not because the 30D or 20D are bad cameras.... I just would much rather have something more up to date, and with more features...
RikWriter wrote:
Why not pick up a used 20D for under $700 in Buy/Sell?
You are using a 300D . What year were you planning on getting something newer? A lot of shots are passing you by . You could re-sell the newer(20D) camera when the 40D or whatever comes out,and sell your 300D now as I did and purchase something for now.
Lets hope!