Even if Canon really has a new 1D with 16MP FF and dynamic crop of 10MP at 1.3x, I think the MSRP will still be at US$8000. I don't think it is expensive concerning that it is really "2 cameras" in 1 body concept.
A standalone 1D with 10MP and 1.3x will more likely fetch the same price ($3999.95) as the MK II N or slightly lower. I could buy two bodies with $8000 rather than one.
I rarely shoot in the studio. Two bodies, each fitted with a wide-angle zoom and telephoto zoom make it easier for many of my outdoor projects rather than changing lenses in a hurry if using a single body.
Anyway, since I already have a MK II N, whichever it version of the new camera is, if I buy one, it will automatically becomes my second camera.
kisielk wrote:
Yeah, but this sensor still holds its own against anything released by all the other manufacturers, even after 30 months. Pretty good engineering in my book.
That's not the whole story. The 30D is getting creamed by the Nikon D200. While its sensor holds its own against that Nikon offering, its other features are seriously lacking. If there is no serious answer to the D200 at PMA, Canon's sales in the low-end prosumer market will continue to erode. And as said before, it will appear to the rest of the photographic world that they are treading water.
Let's just say that if I'm in sales at Canon and this is all they have to offer at this show, I will be very sad.
lordcarl wrote:
Even if Canon really has a new 1D with 16MP FF and dynamic crop of 10MP at 1.3x, I think the MSRP will still be at US$8000. I don't think it is expensive concerning that it is really "2 cameras" in 1 body concept.
A standalone 1D with 10MP and 1.3x will more likely fetch the same price ($3999.95) as the MK II N or slightly lower. I could buy two bodies with $8000 rather than one.
I rarely shoot in the studio. Two bodies, each fitted with a wide-angle zoom and telephoto zoom make it easier for many of my outdoor projects rather than changing lenses in a hurry if using a single body.
Anyway, since I already have a MK II N, whichever it version of the new camera is, if I buy one, it will automatically becomes my second camera....Show more →
So, any clues on the 'extra features' which haven't been mentioned yet which make this an exciting camera?
Movie mode sounds dire.
Perhaps the Elan 1v body?
Tentacle wrote: Yes, but the sensor in it will be 30 months old. Ditto a lot of the internals. Part of the 30D is still 20D remember?
This one is too slippery to call... 30D sales are getting mauled (echo echo echo, I must have said this before a few times ) so Canon has every reason to ignore the 18 month product cycle. The 18 months are not set in stone you know.
1. You got a point there.
2. Right. The 1Ds Mk II will be 29 month old in PMA.....
Edited by Yakim Peled on Feb 18, 2007 at 03:52 PM GMT
Joel Slack wrote:
I see a lot of frustration here, and I can understand where it comes from, but I'd advise people to try and relax for just a few more days, and not get all angst-ridden and ready to crown Nikon "winner" over what is (up to now) purely rumor and speculation or (at the very BEST) extremely incomplete information.
Wait to see what actually comes out, you might just be pleasantly surprised. (you never know)
I'd go further than that and say I totally fail to understand the need to pit the companies against each other. They're both great companies the have great products and that's good for all photographers. Some people do seem to need to fire the rivalry as some sort of desperate search for conviction to support their own purchases. It's like a kind of virtual soccer hooliganism. Thankfully nobody gets hurt but it's juvenile at best. Having said that I am enjoying the specualtion and good natured joking that is the larger part of this thread... and I'm not even looking to buy any gear... unless of course Canon releases something I really really want.
lexvo wrote:
10Mp and 10fps may not sound as a large upgrade, but the camera might have other nice features, as:
- smaller body
- lower noise / ISO 6400
- build-in WIFI / Bluetooth
- mirror lockup button
- ...
You forgot the nicest feature of all: Anti Dust system....
mickr7an wrote:
... I totally fail to understand the need to pit the companies against each other. They're both great companies the have great products and that's good for all photographers. Some people do seem to need to fire the rivalry as some sort of desperate search for conviction to support their own purchases. It's like a kind of virtual soccer hooliganism. Thankfully nobody gets hurt but it's juvenile at best. Having said that I am enjoying the specualtion and good natured joking that is the larger part of this thread... and I'm not even looking to buy any gear... unless of course Canon releases something I really really want....Show more →
lexvo wrote:
Yes, and I also forgot improved dynamic range.
I would be very interested in such a camera (but of course I now still have the classic 1D ).
I also have the 1D but the new one will be too expensive for me. The only good point I find in it is that it would drive 1D Mk II N prices down so I could afford it.
My prediction as far out of this monster thread is:
1) Canon will release the successor of the 1D Mk IIn as a 16 MPix full frame frame camera, able to crop by factor of 1.3 to perform 10 fps resulting in 10 mp files. The camera is able, due to its internal buffer and in conjunction with high speed memory cards, to shoot an unlimited number of pictures in high speed mode (only limited by the size of the used memory cards).?The pricing should be around 4.500€.
2) Canon will also introduce a new „Medium Format“ EOS system, that will be compatible with current EF mount in a sort of crop mode and uses a new line of lenses to leverage the bigger sensor. The successor of the 1Ds MK II is intended to build the starting point of this new production line for Canon and the sensor will have at least 22 mp.
The rumor goes that this beast will ship around 13 T€.
With this move Canon solves several issues and therefore this prediction makes sense to me:
1) Canon want to go „Full Frame“ with 1D series, so the native crop of the 1D has to go away.
2) Due to pricing issues its not possible the merge the 1D and 1Ds line into one. For sport shooters and journalists there‘s no need for 20+ mp, and some are already shooting digital for years. So their lens park is collected on the fact having 1.3 crop. Therefore the „dynamic crop“ of the 1D MK III will support a smooth migration path for them.
3) The current 1Ds Mk II challenges the existing EF lenses and it attacks the low end of the medium format market (studio, landscape, ...) already. So to extend the ship size to enter the „cropped medium format digital backs“ while introducing new high quality lenses makes perfect sense to me.
Regarding FF. Its been stated they "want" to go this route for their cameras, however, quote for a Canon exec...
"We feel that the ability to use different sensor sizes is a strong point of digital cameras. Rather than consolidating into fewer sensor sizes, we feel that different sensor sizes offer various strong points to different users. For users who wish to make use of the full range of their EF lenses, full-frame sensors are best. For those searching for the fastest frame rates, 1.3x is best. For the most cost-sensitive users, the APS-C 1.6x size is ideal."
Quote from Chuckie:
"In my opinion, this quote is much more in line with Canon's philosophy regarding the use of several sensor sizes. It echoes my response on the subject, which I posted on Rob Galbraith's Web site in September 2003:
"Canon's digital SLR design philosophy is to provide a range of camera models to cover clearly defined market segments. For the foreseeable future, this is going to involve a range of sensor sizes from APS-C (as in EOS Digital Rebel and 10D) through APS-H (as in EOS-1D) to full-frame (as in EOS-1Ds)."
My statement was true then and it remains true today. I have no intention of discussing Canon's future plans in detail, but it wouldn't surprise me to see us continue to manufacture several distinct sensor sizes, if that's what it takes to offer the best camera performance in each DSLR product category."
nikt wrote:
Regarding FF. Its been stated they "want" to go this route for their cameras, however, quote for a Canon exec...
"We feel that the ability to use different sensor sizes is a strong point of digital cameras. Rather than consolidating into fewer sensor sizes, we feel that different sensor sizes offer various strong points to different users. For users who wish to make use of the full range of their EF lenses, full-frame sensors are best. For those searching for the fastest frame rates, 1.3x is best. For the most cost-sensitive users, the APS-C 1.6x size is ideal."
Quote from Chuckie:
"In my opinion, this quote is much more in line with Canon's philosophy regarding the use of several sensor sizes. It echoes my response on the subject, which I posted on Rob Galbraith's Web site in September 2003:
"Canon's digital SLR design philosophy is to provide a range of camera models to cover clearly defined market segments. For the foreseeable future, this is going to involve a range of sensor sizes from APS-C (as in EOS Digital Rebel and 10D) through APS-H (as in EOS-1D) to full-frame (as in EOS-1Ds)."
My statement was true then and it remains true today. I have no intention of discussing Canon's future plans in detail, but it wouldn't surprise me to see us continue to manufacture several distinct sensor sizes, if that's what it takes to offer the best camera performance in each DSLR product category."...Show more →
Yes... But we all know that these senior executives are like politicians in how they can twist words to remain true to previous positions... For example having APS-C, FF with a APS-H crop mode and (say) MF could well be still consistent with this... Let's test against the the current rumours FF and 1.255 crop while keeping APS-C and maybe a future MF sensor....
"Continue to manufacture several distinct sensor sizes" - Yes
"Offer the best camera performance in each DSLR product category" - well Chucky is going to say yes now isn't he (so lets hope the nay-sayers are wrong about the delay to the 40D.... No EOSfun if that was true...)
These are good points, given the capability of the processors at the time. However, does the availability of the Digic III allow full frame framerates in the area in which we need? I think so. I have to believe that with the supposed doubling of speed in the chip, they should be able to achieve 8-10 fps without a problem.
Do you think that effects the philosophy in these earlier quotes?
Conclusions based on specs from a current 1 series body 'mules' are the most likely to be faulty. These cameras are likely not even prototypes.
Video capability was mentioned last fall. Canon would take the segment of the market desiring this feature seriously. But they would also understand that many of their 1D base doesn't want video.
I liked the idea of a modular system mentioned last fall. But based based on Canon's past approach, I do not see them doing this. Where does Canon lead in form-factor design?
But being disappointed in non-existent cameras doesn't make a lot of sense either. What's more likely is exciting announcements and a disappointing wait to get the products.
I don't disagree with the crop factor in cam. Obviously the Nikon D2X doesn it, but then again they do have the D2h as well.
If Canon went the full frame / crop mode route however, I think it is improtant that they be able to circumvent the issue with losing the big viewfinder. Either with an EVF or some other method. As much as the D2X is really useful for its crop mode, it really is only used part-time by most people I know.
If a full-time 'cropper' (eg bird photographer) loses that big viewfinder, I don't think they will be happy. And if she had to pay double for it.... well. But I'm willing to be proven wrong.
