Marco wrote:
The usual arrogance of many europeans who think to know all about the world... especially overseas...
C'mon, guys! A discussion like this drives to a bad end. Everyone expressed himself and this is a forum about photography; I think it would be not so good to see Jeff closing this thread.
There is just no need to compare Leicas mistake with political mistakes. I hope Leica users are still alive despite all.
For Leica it is a desaster, their most faithfull clients were misleaded and I do understand that people are getting angry. The Leica Forum is full of such comments and they are not edited, there. I hope Leica opens ears and eyes fast
bathman wrote:
There is just no need to compare Leicas mistake with political mistakes. I hope Leica users are still alive despite all.
For Leica it is a desaster, their most faithfull clients were misleaded and I do understand that people are getting angry. The Leica Forum is full of such comments and they are not edited, there. I hope Leica opens ears and eyes fast
Andi, yes, they already have their eyes open, and in fact, they have already responded. We are now waiting for the final explanation and then for the actual fixes. Given this state of affairs, I see no need to repeatedly post an already repeatedly posted opinion. It just litters the boards with noise and makes it harder to find the valuable content.
Edmund, I too go straight to the comics (after reading the front page), but I don't call them "comics", but "the educational section". As said above, Leica has responded, so at this point there is no need for further complaining. The next time complaining may be needed is if the fixes turn out unsatisfactory for some reason, not now.
Emanuele_C wrote:
C'mon, guys! A discussion like this drives to a bad end. Everyone expressed himself and this is a forum about photography; I think it would be not so good to see Jeff closing this thread.
Peace
Agreed Emanuele,
sorry if I went down that stupid path... _peace_
Now, back on topic..
... I'd welcome an R-D2, indeed I think that ergonomic wise the R-D1 is better than the M8.
What I'd like to see improved would be the rangefinder precision and more framelines especially for longer focal lenghts, like 75 and 90mm.
As the main camera I'd prefer a wider sensor, but as an M8 companion I'd like it remains 1.53x with the 1:1 viewfinder vision.
And maybe throw in a couple more Mp and weaker AA filter.
carstenw wrote:
Wilfredo has been highly vocal on LCU, repeatedly posting the same opinion in thread after thread, and is now starting up here.
I've been an active senior member of the former Leica Forum, and now the Leica User Forum for the last few years, and this is the first time anyone attempts to present me in a negative light. If any of you belong to the Leica User Forum you can check my posts there on the topic of the M8 and you will find that they are lost in a sea of chatter. Carsten has been unfair in the way he has portrayed me here simply because I have a different point of view and I dare to challenge Leica, a terrible sin in the sacred world of Leica loyalty . I've never made attacks on the person or integrity of any individual on any of the forums, but sadly this courtesy has not been extended to me here. Carsten has taken it upon himself to portray me in a negative light, and there is really no need for that simply because we don't agree on the manner in which Leica has handled the introduction of the M8. My thanks to all who participate in these forums without making personal attacks.
I complained, and still do, about the "fiasco" attribute you gave to the M8 introduction.
But it's really nothing personal and somehow I understand the frustration about a less-than-perfect product from Leica at the time of its introduction.
That is not to say though that I will give up... it's only a matter of weeks...
I think it is rather shabby form to start a thread about one's desire for development of an RD2, just to vent personal frustration about Leica's M8 debut.
Let me put things in terms even Wilfredo can understand: the RD project is DEAD. There will NEVER be an Epson RD2. Just ask Epson. Will Cosina ever team up with another partner to create another DRF? Probably but it will be a few years, as no one is interested at the moment. Will Leica rectify the M8 situation? Yes and soon. Will Wilfredo be satisfied with the outcome? Only he can answer that, but probably not IMHO. Too bad.
Are you an expert at deciding peoples motives for their views, or just another intolerant Leica loyalist? There is no need to patronize. Your attitude is demeaning "Let me put things in terms even Wilfredo can understand."
You must be quite the expert!
Folks, I'm sorry this thread took a turn for the worse. I won't be posting anymore responses here or coming back to this thread. It's time to put this one to a rest.
Yeah, you're right. That was kind of mean. My apologies to you, Wilfredo (even though your motivation was pretty transparent). Hope we can all get along. Peace and love for the holidays, everybody!_peace_
-Carlos
Wilfredo, I don't have anything against you in general. I have read other posts by you which I enjoyed. I just got frustrated because over on LCU it seemed like the same 3-5 people were posting their anger in post after post, thread after thread. You were one of them. I put some on my ignore list, I can't remember if I put you there. Then you posted something similar here, and something snapped inside of me.
I would be the last person to try to stop someone from posting their opinion once or twice, but not repeatedly. That is abuse of free speech, not free speech.
Anyway, I hope at least we can get along in the future.
As a person that had interests on RD1, I find it sensible to bring up RD2 idea.
Looking at here and DPR Leica board and LUF, using the word "Fiasco" doesn't seem to be out of line to reflect the sentiment of the early adopters. I have heard much worse words against other companies or other products. As a matter of fact, I myself have experienced that people here repeatedly put down the camera that I have. I've never thought Free speech is abused. Repeating is common here. For the same issues, different facts come out or different opinions are raised on different occasions. Every other week, we see "85/1.2 vs 85/1.8" for last few years. And Lars would defend 85/1.2 every time That's how the Forum works.
Brand loyalty and sensitivity related to it can be understood. Had he posted "M8 is great !" multiple times, would he have gotten the same reactions ?
Pondria, why do you say "As a matter of fact, I myself have experienced that people here repeatedly put down the camera that I have." ?
Apart from some personal preference for DMR files' look and sometimes even 1Ds look, I never heard anyone actually putting down the 1DsmkII.
Any comparison I saw was made to elevate "lesser on paper" cameras to the higher 1DsII level than to put down the Canon.
Btw I'd love to see a R-D2, I don't mind if from Epson or other brands.
Just make it better in focus accuracy.
That's how the Forum works.