Leica will ship the second bunch of M8s and the banding-problem is fixed.
IR-sensitivity needs filters in critical situations (as with the RD-1 and many other digital cameras). In most situations an improved profile will be sufficient and you won't even need filters: http://www.outbackphoto.com/reviews/equipment/leica_m8/Leica_M8_review.html#20061118
So why don't just take the M8?
I have it since three weeks and besides the banding (which will be fixed for free, of course) the quality is simply outstanding.
It's the best rangefinder-camera in the world, the Leica M, with the best build quality, the best lenses and professional electronics which makes DMR-photographers pretty happy and sometimes even made them sell their 1dsMarkII :-)
What do you expect from Epson or Cosina, mass-production-companies who brought you a 500$-cosina with 500$-consumer-digital-technology and sold it for 3000$ and now don't even care about your investment?
The Kodak-sensor alone costs 650$ (they take only 1/3 of the sensors!), the body and mechanics are so perfectly manufactured that a price below 4800$ won't be realistic, not without quality issues.
I understand that many people are happy with the RD-1, using digital with the finest lenses available - but it's not in the same league as the M8.
When the technology is ready to surpass M8-quality and enable the newest M-Asph to develop their full quality there will be a new camera: the M9.
No need for Cosina or Epson.
Wilfredo wrote:
With the recent Leica fiasco (introduction of the M8) I am wondering if Epson has hinted that they might produce an RD2?
Personally I would have loved a camera that was everyting the M8 was supposed to be, and with a lower price tag.
Wilfredo
www.BenitezRivera.com
Wilfredo, don't rule out the M8, not yet.
Even with the actual flaws it's more capable than any Epson , be a RD1 or a ( unlikely ) RD2.. Yes, it's pricey but, when the current issues are fixed, I'd rather pay $5000 for a M8 than $3000 for an RD1 or RD2
So Leica has actually solved the banding problem What's the source of that news?
Will Leica provide free filters for those who took the plunge and bought the camera, and free coding for their lenses?
Lieca fiasco? Yes! The camera was not street ready and they put it on the market any way. That to me is not what I would expect the Leica ethical standard to be. Not a good move, no matter how outstanding some images may be under the "right circumstances."
As a Leica film shooter I am profoundly disappointed with Leica. At the very least I expected the M8 would handle ligting and color situations as well as my Canon 20D.
If Epson is able to deliver the goods, I would consider an Epson RD2 (even if it's mass produced). My main concern is picture quality, and I want a camera that works without added expenses. Is this to much to ask for from the legendary Leica
Wilfredo
www.BenitezRivera.com
Edited by Wilfredo on Nov 21, 2006 at 12:16 AM GMT
Edited by Wilfredo on Nov 21, 2006 at 12:21 AM GMT
Edited by Wilfredo on Nov 21, 2006 at 12:22 AM GMT
How could you consider the M8 a "fiasco" after only a couple of weeks ?
It shouldn't still be distribuited, because the actual release date is november 29th... despite many dealers all over the world have already sold them.
And by then I'm sure they will address the issues, bar the IR one, which could be easily resolved even now with the IR 486 filters.
Annoying ? Maybe.
Should Leica give them for free to M8 buyers ? Absolutely.
But this commercial issue has nothing to do with what you (and I) care most, image quality, which the M8 has in tons. I shot with it for a couple of days, did you ?
Wilfredo wrote:
Lieca fiasco? Yes! The camera was not street ready and they put it on the market any way. That to me is not what I would expect the Leica ethical standard to be.
Is it really necessary to continue posting this opinion on all the boards you can find? We all know the issues by now.
Carsten, are you suggesting that I should remain silent about this in order to show my loyalty to Leica? Having spent literally thousands of dollars on Leica gear, I think I have a right to my views, even when it may upset some of the blind loyalty to a name brand exhibited in the Leica world. I really do hope Leica can dig itself out of this hole, but again, if something else comes along, why not consider it? I can't tell you how much I enjoy the look and feel of the M camera, so my wish for Leica to succeed is sincere, but I can't ignore the idiotic move they made, sorry; and for the record, in comparison to all the internet chatter on this subject, I've ignored most of the boards so I have no idea what you mean about "posting my opinion on all the boards I can find" but even if I did, that would be my right, just like you have the right to argue on behalf of Leica.
In closing, my initial question was about the possibility of an Epson RD2, but it appears that nothing is in the works.
Wilfredo wrote:
Carsten, are you suggesting that I should remain silent about this in order to show my loyalty to Leica? Having spent literally thousands of dollars on Leica gear, I think I have a right to my views, even when it may upset some of the blind loyalty to a name brand exhibited in the Leica world.
No, I am suggesting that I have already seen your opinion posted all over the Leica User Forum perhaps 30 times in various threads, and a few times more here, and I doubt that Leica is counting that as 30+ votes in the unsatisfied user camp. Give it a rest, will ya, you've been heard.
This is not about blind faith. I am plenty annoyed myself about these minor and major glitches, but I get tired of wading through the same opinions from the same people, over and over and over and over and over... At least LCU has an ignore list. Here we are at the mercy of the few mouthy posters, again and again and again and again...
splaargaards wrote:
If they make the rd2, i hope it has little bigger sensor than rd1, 1,3 or so like the m8.
Would make the wideangle thing little better.
I actually hope they keep the 1.5x crop but produce some new lenses for use on the 1.5x crop sensor like a 21mm f/2 or/and maybe a 24mm f/1.4. Also add framelines for 21 and 24mm.
carstenw wrote:
Is it really necessary to continue posting this opinion on all the boards you can find? We all know the issues by now.
Well, actually these are my views exactly summarized too. And yes, posting them may serve to motivate the good people at Leica to fix the issues. I sent them two emails and got no answer. When I phoned them they said they knew about the issues but saw no need to reply as they had no fix as yet.
Oh, and by the way I see no reason not to post such views, as in Europe we have something called freedom of speech. I do understand that it has been abrogated in the US, together with due process and other such useless abstractions, due to the country being at war, but we still believe in it over here where the cheese-eating surrender monkeys live.
Edmund, I am not suggesting (as you and anyone else will realise if you read my post closely) that someone should not post their opinion. I find it highly annoying when an opinion is posted again and again with no new information, however. Wilfredo has been highly vocal on LCU, repeatedly posting the same opinion in thread after thread, and is now starting up here. That is what I am reacting to, not the opinion. It is perfectly possible to state the opinion only a few times, as for example Andi has done.
carstenw wrote:
Edmund, I am not suggesting (as you and anyone else will realise if you read my post closely) that someone should not post their opinion. I find it highly annoying when an opinion is posted again and again with no new information, however. Wilfredo has been highly vocal on LCU, repeatedly posting the same opinion in thread after thread, and is now starting up here. That is what I am reacting to, not the opinion. It is perfectly possible to state the opinion only a few times, as for example Andi has done.
Carsten,
Half the pages in newspapers seem to be devoted to sports or business or Irak - I just have to turn them to get to the comics which are the only part I like
I understand you are unhappy with the forum getting spammed by multiple instances of discontent. On the other hand it does prevent the manufacturer from claiming that there are only a few insignificant and isolated cases of failure.
In some cases repetition may be justfiable. I fear this is one of them. And then, who cares, one can just scroll a bit - as I tried to say that's one of the unfortunate consequences of free speech. Each of us has an opinion, and we keep repeating it ad nauseam.
eronald wrote:
Oh, and by the way I see no reason not to post such views, as in Europe we have something called freedom of speech. I do understand that it has been abrogated in the US, together with due process and other such useless abstractions, due to the country being at war, but we still believe in it over here where the cheese-eating surrender monkeys live.
The usual arrogance of many europeans who think to know all about the world... especially overseas...
I'm relatively new here but the main reason for why I left other forums (dpreview just to make an example) for this one is not only the possibility to express an opinion without being "police controlled" but also the high competence of its members and, more important, the general, very educated environment.
As Edmund, I understand your feelings, Carsten, and I too think that the excessive repetition of some issues sounds annoying but, on the other hand, I can understand the reasons of Wilfredo.
I, for example, don't care about the M8 (it's not in my wish list, for now) but when I read about the IR filter issue I felt bad for Leica just because I care them and I would like to see their growth, not their cancellation from the market.
So, if there's a group of people dissappointed with them asking for a quick-fix, even ad nauseam, I think it's a good thing: 1st we're speakin' about "Leica" (the "best"), 2nd there's interest in their products and this is a VERY positive thing.
