From a pure IQ perspective, it would likely satisfy those dipping their toes into 44x33 more than the SL3.
Much of that sensor's performance would likely be wasted on Leica's autofocus system (and their L lenses' AF motors) so folks looking for a great all arounder would still be more wise to just by the A7R6.
highdesertmesa wrote:
If Leica made a rangefinder-style SL body with a 5.Xm dot EVF and IBIS that was close in size to an M body, it would satisfy me enough to replace a digital M body permanently. I wish they'd done that instead of making the EV1.
I'm still at a loss as to why Panasonic has not made such a camera, especially one with analog dials on the top plate – basically a full-frame Fujifilm X-Pro with L mount.
Sounds like we're heading back in time to the EV1 wishlist discussion.
But I agree with you that an L mount camera like that makes a ton of sense and would be a better 'advanced technology' platform than M mount.
Fred Miranda wrote:
I've been shooting almost exclusively with the M11-D lately, and honestly, I don't find the shutter sound all that much louder or different than the M10-R. While the M10-R is definitely quieter and simpler (open/close), the M11-D has a really satisfying feel to it. It's hard to put into words, but it almost has this acoustic "reverb" quality to the sound.
I agree completely that adding a stacked sensor doesn't ruin the mechanical shutter experience in itself, but it introduces a slippery slope. It entices people to rely solely on the electronic shutter for many applications like street work, which completely strips away that tactile feel I mentioned. Half the magic of shooting an M is the physical commitment of the mechanical click. ...Show more →
There are ways to simulated that feeling. Porsche does an a.azing job of that in its newer combustion cars. They would sound and feel very different without artificial augmentation.
1bwana1 wrote:
There are ways to simulated that feeling. Porsche does an a.azing job of that in its newer combustion cars. They would sound and feel very different without artificial augmentation.
I was thinking Leica could do what Apple does for the haptic feedback of their trackpads. Add something to the M that creates a physical click sound and slight feedback through the shutter release button to simulate a mechanical shutter tripping.
That said I can sympathize with Fred's position as I now primarily shoot with a stacked sensor camera mostly in e-shutter and I experience a slight disconnect between pressing the shutter and knowing when or whether it actually captured the image. As cheesy as it seems, I ended up turning on the fake shutter sound to its minimum volume setting so that at least I could hear that the image was captured as confirmation. I guess after decades of DSLR use, I still need a subtle audible confirmation by the camera that it captured the image when I wanted it to.
highdesertmesa wrote:
If Leica made a rangefinder-style SL body with a 5.Xm dot EVF and IBIS that was close in size to an M body, it would satisfy me enough to replace a digital M body permanently. I wish they'd done that instead of making the EV1.
I'm still at a loss as to why Panasonic has not made such a camera, especially one with analog dials on the top plate – basically a full-frame Fujifilm X-Pro with L mount.
If Leica made such a body they would still have me as a customer...
For me it remains incomprehensible, especially also after discontinuing the CL and TL2. Until that happens 100% Hasselblad.
Surfnsun wrote:
A lot of them host workshops and all that exposure earns business. Since when did you have to know what you’re doing in order to teach something anyway?
By far not even closely to make enough money to afford some of their personal Leica gear selection.
Use e-shutter with street portrait subjects and they think you are jerking them around. In my experience, the ones they work best with are the early A Sonys and early a7 cameras, but probably any traditional camera.
The shutter report turns out to be an integral part of the process. It brings closure to both photographer and subject(s).
'a 5.Xm dot EVF and IBIS that was close in size to an M body,'
In the marketing plan, surely. Long as it's not thick as a brick.
rscheffler wrote:
It might allow for a proper M12-P 'Pro' version that isn't just superficial/cosmetic upgrades.
But if a new sensor and processor package is still a few years away, it sounds more like M13 timeframe.
While the likes of Nikon and maybe Panasonic are somewhat at the mercy of Sony's technology handouts and have less ability to defer providing their user base 'real' upgrades in a more tightly spaced upgrade cycle, Leica can get away with recycling the existing sensor and processor in the M12 with otherwise 'quality of life' updates to further refine the user experience. The customer base is less specs/tech driven and those who sit out such an M12 may be rewarded for their patience with a more substantially revised M13. But that's still ~5-6 years away (M11 was January 2022 already). None of us are getting any younger and for some, another 5 years is too long to wait while the sun sets. ...Show more →
Yes, I think the Gpixel Leica project is very early in the R&D process. So early I wonder what strategy was behind that very early partnership announcement 🤔
On another note, do you or anyone else have insight into which of Leica’s camera line typically get the newest/next-gen maestro processor first?
Fred Miranda wrote:
I've been shooting almost exclusively with the M11-D lately, and honestly, I don't find the shutter sound all that much louder or different than the M10-R. While the M10-R is definitely quieter and simpler (open/close), the M11-D has a really satisfying feel to it. It's hard to put into words, but it almost has this acoustic "reverb" quality to the sound.
I agree completely that adding a stacked sensor doesn't ruin the mechanical shutter experience in itself, but it introduces a slippery slope. It entices people to rely solely on the electronic shutter for many applications like street work, which completely strips away that tactile feel I mentioned. Half the magic of shooting an M is the physical commitment of the mechanical click. ...Show more →
It wasn't long ago you said you wouldn't move to the M11 Series due to the shutter- I know the way exposure works was a bit of the problem but what changed?
RustyRus wrote:
It wasn't long ago you said you wouldn't move to the M11 Series due to the shutter- I know the way exposure works was a bit of the problem but what changed?
It's true. When the M11 series first launched, I was one of the early adopters. I ended up moving away from it because it felt so different from the M10-R. (especially the shutter behavior) along with other early issues that bothered me just as much, like the tint shifting and frequent freezing.
Those issues are completely behind me now. I have really come to appreciate how accurate the "Auto" WB is...which is what I shoot on the M11-D by default. On top of that, my M11-D hasn't frozen once. Whether it's specific to the M11-D or recent firmware tweaks, even the shutter difference doesn't bother me anymore...in fact, I've come to like how it sounds and feels. I can still tell the two bodies apart instantly when shooting, but I happily enjoy both the M10-R and M11-D now for what they offer.
When the M10 came out, I went to my local Leica store to buy one, but came back with the M6 TTL.
When the M11 came out, I went to my local Leica store to buy one, but came back with the M7.
When the M12 comes out, I will go to my local Leica store to buy one.
old-gregg wrote:
When the M10 came out, I went to my local Leica store to buy one, but came back with the M6 TTL.
When the M11 came out, I went to my local Leica store to buy one, but came back with the M7.
When the M12 comes out, I will go to my local Leica store to buy one.
Same here, but M6 and MA. If Leica can transition from film to digital, a move from a mechanical viewfinder to hybrid, or mechanical shutter to global are all possible. The old customers pass away and Leica must balance the desires of the emerging market with tradition. The M13 looks like it will be the considered next step.
rscheffler wrote:
I was thinking Leica could do what Apple does for the haptic feedback of their trackpads. Add something to the M that creates a physical click sound and slight feedback through the shutter release button to simulate a mechanical shutter tripping.
That said I can sympathize with Fred's position as I now primarily shoot with a stacked sensor camera mostly in e-shutter and I experience a slight disconnect between pressing the shutter and knowing when or whether it actually captured the image. As cheesy as it seems, I ended up turning on the fake shutter sound to its minimum volume setting so that at least I could hear that the image was captured as confirmation. I guess after decades of DSLR use, I still need a subtle audible confirmation by the camera that it captured the image when I wanted it to....Show more →
If you do want to operate silently and still get an indication that the image has been made, I believe that many e-shutter friendly cameras let you set for a subtle visual signal in the EVF when the shutter is tripped.
chiron wrote:
If you do want to operate silently and still get an indication that the image has been made, I believe that many e-shutter friendly cameras let you set for a subtle visual signal in the EVF when the shutter is tripped.
Yes, my cameras have this - a white border briefly appears around the EVF image, but it's too subtle because I'm usually visually preoccupied with whatever is happening in the composition. I find a subtle fake shutter sound to be more effective because it doesn't compete for my visual attention.
