p.1 #1 · Downsizing From My Leica M10-P Safari . What Would You Replace It With?
Hi guys I’m thinking about selling my Leica M10-P Safari and downsizing to something simpler and more practical
I don’t really need to spend that much on a camera anymore, so I’m looking for something that’s smaller, easy to carry, but still gives me really good image quality I’m open to Canon or Sony
I’ve been looking at cameras like the Sony A7C II and Canon R8, but I’d really appreciate some opinions from people who have actually used them. What would you guys choose if you were coming from an M10-P and wanted to downsize without feeling like you’re giving up too much?
Thanks in advance guys really appreciate any advice
p.1 #2 · Downsizing From My Leica M10-P Safari . What Would You Replace It With?
It's funny going to an A7C after a Leica and focus just becomes a non-issue. I got the original after downgrading from my M262. I eventually parted ways with it and got an older X100F in exchange for a CV 50/1.2 Nokton from my Leica kit.
The hard part going from a Leica M to a modern mirrorless is just that feeling of second guessing and/or getting distracted by settings all the time. On a Leica I was only concerned about my metering.
I tend to be an aperture priority shooter so it's mandatory for me to shoot on a system that has aperture rings on it's lenses. I will never accept a command dial for that function. That ruled out Canon for me and basically Nikon too (Viltrox EVO lenses are the exception here).
p.1 #3 · Downsizing From My Leica M10-P Safari . What Would You Replace It With?
By "downsizing" do you mean cost-wise? Not much is smaller than an M unless you move to something like a Fujifilm X-E5 + kit pancake, X100VI, Ricoh GR, or an M43 camera. And no other camera will be "simpler" than an M, they will all be more complex and less intuitive, IMO.
p.1 #4 · Downsizing From My Leica M10-P Safari . What Would You Replace It With?
I like the Canon R8, but for serious faster stuff, I’d use my OM1 II or my R5. Unless you adapt lenses or limit your lens choice to a few small primes, Canon will mean large lenses.
I dislike the Sony ergonomics, so that’s a no for me, even though there are nice small lenses available for Sony.
I just sold my M11 but maybe unlike for you, Leica M was never my main or only system.
p.1 #5 · Downsizing From My Leica M10-P Safari . What Would You Replace It With?
Will you wish to keep using any of your M lenses, with adapters? This matters, for technical reasons. I will let one of the members, with hands-on experience, describe this aspect.
Regardless of how you answer the first one, do you want your new system's lenses to have focus rings that turn in familiar directions?
What about menus? Sony menus are a nightmare, to me. YMMV.
My choice was Nikon Z, but, I had used Nikon and Canon DSLRs, for a while, before I side-stepped to Leica M, in early 2018. Plus, my wife was shooting Nikon since before I ever used interchangeable-lens cameras. She added a Nikon Z6 in 2018. I added a Nikon ZR last month.
I liked the EOS M3, that I used, for a short time, before a storm drowned it. So, if we factor-out Nikon, I would lean Canon, but, I have no experience with R-serious Canon cameras or lenses. The Canon RP seemed nicely compact, which tempted me, but, I never added one.
p.1 #6 · Downsizing From My Leica M10-P Safari . What Would You Replace It With?
I dumped all my Leica gear too for various reasons (including the obvious financial). I tried an X100F as a replacement. That didn't last long. You get a smaller package, great sensor output, and optical finder, a nice looking camera. It is all negated by slow AF and abysmal manual focus. I never had the confidence with it.
I got a Nikon Zf only this month and it is the first time I feel this is a shooting experience that approximates a similar tactile feel as the Leica. I paired it with a Voigtlander 50APO. Yes it is a bit bigger and heavier overall Vs an M, but I find the ethos closer to a film camera than anything else, the closest to an F3 you can get.
I'd suggest giving that a go, you could try adapting your M lenses or just get a native mount Voigtlander. It will never be like a Leica but in many ways it is like it, aperture ring at the front, shutter and ISO dials at the top. I even get point focus/eye focus confirmation with manual lenses.
Another option is the Fuji XE series, a while ago I run a XE2 in parallel to my M4. It has the sort of look and size, but it can be a bit too plastic fantastic. Maybe the newer bodies are nicer. The Fuji lenses are really nice and compact too. I didn't like the manual focus experience (adapting my M lenses at the time) but that has for sure improved with the current models.
p.1 #7 · Downsizing From My Leica M10-P Safari . What Would You Replace It With?
highdesertmesa wrote:
By "downsizing" do you mean cost-wise? Not much is smaller than an M unless you move to something like a Fujifilm X-E5 + kit pancake, X100VI, Ricoh GR, or an M43 camera. And no other camera will be "simpler" than an M, they will all be more complex and less intuitive, IMO.
The a7cII and r are both a bit thicker than the M (but you get a grip and a swing out screen) while having a substantially smaller footprint otherwise. And you can make any camera as simple as an M if you use manual lenses, only use the camera to control two thirds of the exposure triangle, and ignore the other features. The real advantage of the M is that most of the higher performing lenses aren't bigger or heavier than the lower tiers, and some are smaller (APO-Summicron-M 35 and 50, for example). With Sony and Canon, the opposite tends to be true. If you want the "best" offered for their mounts, you have to be prepared to carry quite a bit more.
p.1 #8 · Downsizing From My Leica M10-P Safari . What Would You Replace It With?
Yes, we need to know if you are going to hang on to your M glass.
I agree with panos.v about AF speed. It's my only real complain about the X100F and I don't think they really changed that (I could be wrong) with the v2 lens. It was just an optical improvement. That said my favorite shots of last year were shot on the X100F and I'm tempted to double down and get the X100VI.
p.1 #9 · Downsizing From My Leica M10-P Safari . What Would You Replace It With?
I never gelled with the RF after a couple tries, so I have experience, and my guy has both an M7 and M11. Ever since he picked up the Hassy X2D, though, I'm the one who takes the M11 out once a month to make sure it's still in good working order, so I guess I am an M-shooter. Mostly for me, it's Sony, and I've been checking out an a7cII I picked up in a trade as a potential travel camera.
It's a great little camera. I think how much you'll enjoy it depends on how you want to use it. What's the plan? Are you just thinking a handful of small primes? AF? Zooms? Are you looking to explore more of the feature set or are you planning to keep it as simple as possible?
p.1 #11 · Downsizing From My Leica M10-P Safari . What Would You Replace It With?
freaklikeme wrote:
It's a great little camera. I think how much you'll enjoy it depends on how you want to use it. What's the plan? Are you just thinking a handful of small primes? AF? Zooms? Are you looking to explore more of the feature set or are you planning to keep it as simple as possible?
How do you find the handling on the A7Cii? On the original A7C I programmed the hell out of it and it still didn't seem as intuitive as a basic Nikon or Fuji.
The other reason I find Sony attractive is those compact f4 zooms. 24-50/2.8 or the 20-70/4 aren't any bigger than most Fuji zooms.
p.1 #12 · Downsizing From My Leica M10-P Safari . What Would You Replace It With?
ottokbre wrote:
How do you find the handling on the A7Cii? On the original A7C I programmed the hell out of it and it still didn't seem as intuitive as a basic Nikon or Fuji.
The other reason I find Sony attractive is those compact f4 zooms. 24-50/2.8 or the 20-70/4 aren't any bigger than most Fuji zooms.
I'm probably not the best judge on "intuitive." Sony still uses some of the most language-defying labels on things and, because there are so many options, the menu remains dense. What I like about it over the original C is the additional physical controls and the updated (still far from great) EVF. For me, that's all it took, but I'd still recommend sticking on the lighter, smaller side. There's not much you can do to that grip to make it more comfortable with long teles. I will say the EVF's more usable than I thought it would be. Manual focus doesn't suck, but it does make me rely more on the focus aides. It's great if you're using it as a framing device. IBIS and AF are also a few ticks above what was offered in the original and worth the upgrade if you rely on either.
I agree with you on the zooms. I've been trying out ultrawides on it and, so far, the Sigma 16-28/2.8 and Sony 16-25/2.8 have been the leaders. And, while bigger, the Tamron 35-100/2.8 has proven rock solid and a really useful range. I could see a vacation with one of the UWAs, a smaller, faster prime (28 or 35), and the Tamron.
p.1 #13 · Downsizing From My Leica M10-P Safari . What Would You Replace It With?
stephenjohnsonn wrote:
Hi guys I’m thinking about selling my Leica M10-P Safari and downsizing to something simpler and more practical
I don’t really need to spend that much on a camera anymore, so I’m looking for something that’s smaller, easy to carry, but still gives me really good image quality I’m open to Canon or Sony
I’ve been looking at cameras like the Sony A7C II and Canon R8, but I’d really appreciate some opinions from people who have actually used them. What would you guys choose if you were coming from an M10-P and wanted to downsize without feeling like you’re giving up too much?
Thanks in advance guys really appreciate any advice ...Show more →
Depending on how you define certain things ... "easy to carry", "really good image quality", etc.
D-Lux 8 or Lumix variant
GXR variants (dang they're small)
Q2 or Q2M is still some good quality, decent small size, less $$ than your -P.
Sony RX variant.
Of course, none of those use your M glass.
I know those aren't A7C II and R8 territory, but sometimes brainstorming outside your box can trigger some clarity, too.
I'm currently using the Lumix S1R II with my M lenses. I looked at the Nikon lines a while back for some of the tactile aspects of it, but didn't care for the carry feel. Lumix glass and Sigma L mount glass can be quite nice / small in their contemporary / i series. So, not the A7C sizing, but when you factor in glass for the mount, there's that. And, the Lumix sensor thickness isn't Sony thick (if you're using your M's). The SL is in play, but likely too big for your "easy carry" perspective.
Not sure what focal lengths you trying to cover, so that might be something to enlighten upon us. The Fuji GFX100RF could be considered an easy carry, good IQ by some. Of course, some folks will lament the lack of IBIS (umm .... M variants), but you should be fine.
So, I kinda walked you from m43 > MF in some ways that are probably fringe consideration, but I lobbed 'em out there for some brain fodder ... just in case.
p.1 #14 · Downsizing From My Leica M10-P Safari . What Would You Replace It With?
I love how this thread is ignited on fire and the OP hasn't responded even once. The quickest way to incite violence is suggesting going from Leica to Sony
p.1 #15 · Downsizing From My Leica M10-P Safari . What Would You Replace It With?
The author registered a day ago and posted a message saying he doesn't like the M10-P Safari. That was the start of a WW3 war. Afterward, he mentioned he might switch to Sony. There’s no putting out this fire now.
p.1 #16 · Downsizing From My Leica M10-P Safari . What Would You Replace It With?
Seems like any switch to Canon, Sony, etc will just add much more complexity. Perhaps an a7cII with a 40mm f2.5 lens or the 35mm 2.8. Maybe a 24-70mm? All of these choices just add infinite variables.
I'd say a Q3, RX1 or X100 VI would be the obvious answer to what to downsize to or what is more practical. After that, you are basically left with infinite options regarding systems, bodies, lenses, etc.
