rscheffler wrote:
Sharp 35mm lenses with 'not-distracting bokeh', are in a minority on M mount.
Small 35mm lenses in general have this trade-off, speaking from someone who has shot primarilly e-mount for 10+ years and chased the elusive perfect 35 the whole time.
I was going to say, for whatever reason 35mm seems to be the absolute hardest focal length to achieve great optics in a small package. It’s not like the situation is any different on larger mounts like Sony or Nikon full frame where theoretically you have a lot more wiggle room than M mount.
Mystik wrote:
Small lenses in general have this trade-off, speaking from someone who has shot primarilly e-mount for 10+ years and chased the elusive perfect 35 the whole time.
Eh, as someone that bought the 11873 and had to immediately send it to DAG for focus issues, I'm in the skeptical-but-hopeful for this batch of modern designs. Realistically, the acid test is their unreleased 28 APO, since there is no Leica equivalent and they'll need to keep it as small as the current 28 Summicron to have a real leg up over Voigtlander.
gammarART wrote:
That really has to be part of the review agreement, with everyone testing it on a BF…
Robbie Sumantri and Bobby Tonelli know each other, so maybe a personal Sigma BF was being shared. I've not seen anyone else using the BF with the LLL APO, but maybe I'm missing out on the party.
mkuredjian wrote:
Eh, as someone that bought the 11873 and had to immediately send it to DAG for focus issues, I'm in the skeptical-but-hopeful for this batch of modern designs. Realistically, the acid test is their unreleased 28 APO, since there is no Leica equivalent and they'll need to keep it as small as the current 28 Summicron to have a real leg up over Voigtlander.
I wish LLL copy can implement the tactile change in resistance on the focus ring when moving past 0.7 meters into the close-focus range like the Leica version. I think it's a really useful feature.
gordec wrote:
I wish LLL copy can implement the tactile change in resistance on the focus ring when moving past 0.7 meters into the close-focus range like the Leica version. I think it's a really useful feature.
Hi, Robbie here, looks like i caused a bit of a stir. I am currently giving the the Sigma BF a go and that is why I used it. Different copies between Bobby and me.. I feel the bf is a very underrated and interesting camera.
I’ll try to answer any questions about the lens if you guys have any. Thanks to everyone who watched the video 🙌🙌
Robbie_S wrote:
Hi, Robbie here, looks like i caused a bit of a stir. I am currently giving the the Sigma BF a go and that is why I used it. Different copies between Bobby and me.. I feel the bf is a very underrated and interesting camera.
I’ll try to answer any questions about the lens if you guys have any. Thanks to everyone who watched the video 🙌🙌
Sigma BFs for everyone!
1) APO Expectations
Nothing against the BF, but an APO lens sets the expectation to see how it performs on a Leica M sensor to maximize its potential. That said, lots of people love shooting M lenses on non-M bodies, but the question always is, "how does it perform in the mid-frame and corners wide open at both close distance and infinity". We all know a non-M sensor can affect performance of M lenses away from the center of the frame, but by how much?
2) Character
How is the LLL 35 APO bokeh more vintage than the Voigtlander 35mm APO? Judging by the samples I've seen from the 35 APO from LLL, the opposite is true.
3) Sharpness
Any lens can be sharp centrally wide open. What about when the subject is in the mid-frame (midway between the center and a corner)?
4) Processing
It would be helpful to see less-processed versions of your images, especially since this is an APO lens. Changing contrast and colors as much as you've done makes it hard for the viewer to compare it to what they already have experience with. Contrast and color edits have a big impact on the appearance of bokeh character. Perhaps if you first show a less edited version then swiped to show your preset. That could serve both purposes.
Rather than explaining with words, I’ll probably do a video comparison between the voigt and lll to make it fair and of course, I will use my M to do that and I will show both edited and unedited images though I’ve never claimed to be a technical reviewer. If people say I form my opinions based on just vibes, I’m not fighting that.
As far as lens performance goes on the BF and M on the LLL, i find no problems with midframe sharpness. 2/3 of either way. I seldom care about what is at the extremes of my frame and I do not and probably will not have test charts for this.
Hoping to get some videos out of the way before I do the comparison. Cheers
Looking forward to seeing some images here in this thread (or whenever Fred starts a review thread) as well as *written* user experience feedback. Not interested in videos. Sorry!
Rather than explaining with words, I’ll probably do a video comparison between the voigt and lll to make it fair and of course, I will use my M to do that and I will show both edited and unedited images though I’ve never claimed to be a technical reviewer. If people say I form my opinions based on just vibes, I’m not fighting that.
As far as lens performance goes on the BF and M on the LLL, i find no problems with midframe sharpness. 2/3 of either way. I seldom care about what is at the extremes of my frame and I do not and probably will not have test charts for this.
Hoping to get some videos out of the way before I do the comparison. Cheers...Show more →
Hey Robbie.
The issue here is that potential buyers of the LLL 35 APO are asked to pay a premium for a superlative level of performance, so your taget audience here would be those who are more critical of optical performance across the frame, and in particular, how truly apochromatic the lens is. LLL's other lenses pitch vintage character as the value propostion so a review based on vibes is probably ok for those.
This particular lens, however, is promising peerless optical quality, comes from an unproven lens maker, is twice as expensive as the voigtlander APO, and is on par with used prices of the Leica summicron non APO. Regardless of your personal feelings about how relevant edge to edge sharpness is, it honestly is a miss to review the lens and not do technical review on the areas where the LLL APO is supposed to deliver the value proposition. It also does not help to use a camera that inherently diminishes the peerless optical quality that buyers of this lens are asked to pay a premium for. We dont all get to try lenses out for free . Its like being loaned sports car to review and only demonstrating how well it drives around the neighborhood.
Saw a review of the Thypoch Ksana 35mm the other day that said it had a ‘vintage vibe’. Sometimes I think these reviewers think a manual lens is automatically vintage.
